Wirehead Studios

Wirehead Modifications => Generations Arena => Topic started by: Tabun on 2003-05-20, 02:02



Title: Earth Items - Sneak Preview ((I'm back from my little hibernation))
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-20, 02:02
Yup folks, I've been working on Gen stuff a bit again. Since there were a hell of a lot of items screaming to be made, I decided to get some Earth stuff done. I'd modelled one or two before, but never got round to skin em.

Here's the first batch of earth-items:

http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/pics/earth_items1.jpg (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/pics/earth_items1.jpg)

- small health - dog food
- medium health - german foodplatter
- small armor - german helmet
- bullet clip (same as doom's clip)
- flamer ammo tanks
- sniper ammo

Also, for those intrested, here's the list of what's done/what's to do, itemwise:
http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/itemstatus.htm (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/itemstatus.htm)



P.S. Sorry Angst, when I was about to do some touching up to your mediumhealth skin, I realized I suck at touching stuff up, and decided to start from scratch.. If you want the PSD to see how I did it, just lemme know tho.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-20, 02:32
VERY nice! :P


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Parapsyche on 2003-05-20, 02:51
Looking awesome, Tab.  Keep it up!


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: ConfusedUs on 2003-05-20, 10:36
Rofl, the price tag on the sniper bullets is awesome.  :thumb:

Excellent job tab!


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: dev/null on 2003-05-20, 14:13
.50 ammo, only $25.95! :D


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: games keeper on 2003-05-20, 16:07
do we really have to pay for those bullets :(


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Daedalus on 2003-05-20, 19:19
yes, yes we do

anyway, nice job tab, always new and original :)

keep it up!


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: ReBoOt on 2003-05-20, 23:05
Nice as always tab!


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Gnam on 2003-05-21, 01:39
Yeah, nice. I was also laughing at the sniper ammo price tag. Is it even legal to sell civilians .50 BMG?

BTW, not to criticize, just an idea... In Wolf3D the mags were like bright blue. That would look dumb in Gen, but to differenciate them from the Doom mags maybe you could make em silver or something. Course, It's up to you, but as you must know well, it would take like 2 seconds to do in photoshop, so it could be worth considering.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: IEEE1394 on 2003-05-21, 10:18
Really nice models and skins tab!


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-21, 12:03
Thanks all!

Gnam: I considered totally reskinning the clip for earth, but figured it wasn't worth the trouble - no-one would even be able to compare the two without dying as earth or doom and switching to the other class while looking at a clip. A silverish kind of metal is harder to make without shaders, and thus would require some extra tweaking & indeed a simple photoshop adjustment layer.
When all items are done, I think I'll have a go at that. For now, I think it's more important to try and see if I can get the whole lot done for 99c ;]

P.S. It seems to be legal to not only buy all kinds of extremely lethal BMG high caliber rounds,  but also for civilians to buy actual 50cal rifles, like the barret. It seems that gun laws even have more restrictions for those wanting to buy low caliber weapons and hunting rifles (not counting tank-hunting weaponry).
While browsing the web on info about both the barret and its ammo, I even came across a list of reasons why barret sells small arsenals to civilians, criminals and terrorists alike :] - It seems people actually managed to make a barret-stickup van once, by mounting the rifle behind a specially constructed trapdoor in the vehicle (despite claims of the gun-company that the weapon couldn't be fired from a car without nasty consequences for its occupants). Very intresting read, although some information seemed questionable (as always on the net).


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Gnam on 2003-05-21, 20:23
Well, I guess its not that surprising considering my dad's friend owns an MP5 SD4, a M1919A1, a Mac 10, and others.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-22, 00:20
Tab, do you mean laws in the Netherlands?  I know in the US you can buy pretty much anything, that is, depending on the political climate of where you live.  In the US under fedaral law you can buy a Browning .50 heavy machinegun with a class III permit and a 200 dollar transfer tax after passing a background check so long as there isn't a city, county, or state ordanance against it.  You can also buy silencers with a class III permit.  All of these "nasty" toys have to be registered in the process since the idea is that it's not a good policy to allow just anyone to run around with a fully automatic weapon, or one that's silenced.  As for Joe Citizen, as long as again there's no state law or local law you can buy everything from a .22 caliber pocket pistol for $50 or a $7000 Barrett M82A1 without restrictions or registration requirements, so long as you're not a convicted felon, under restraining order, or have a domestic violence conviction.  They've tried outlawing the big .50's but so far have had no success, the primary reasoning being that no criminal is going to use a $7000 rifle that makes a huge muzzle flash and an even bigger noise.  Of course there are some that go for $1500 or so, but still, what crook is going to go lugging a rifle around that weighs 20+ pounds and sounds like a cannon going off?  Most who own such "toys" are enthusiasts who have the money and like things that make a big bang.:)

The harshest Federal restrictions in the US so far have fallen under the so-called "assault weapons ban" which basically outlawed imported military-style semi autos, and added other restrictions such as banning pistol grips, bayonet lugs, and flash supressors and/or threaded muzzles that can accept one (or a silencer).  This was primarily aimed at the AK-47 design and SKS family of semi-autos.  Most importers just modified their designs to use what's called a "thumbhole" stock, ditched the bayonet or bayonet lug, and either left the muzzle clean or tacked on a factory recoil brake.  It did nothing for AR-15 (M-16) style semi auto's manufactured in the US regarding the pistol grip, and with the redesign of the import rifles not much changed except the stock, the muzzle, and the bayonet lug, so basically the same type of rifles are still imported.  They even have Yugoslavian SKS rifles imported WITH the bayonet still attached right now, also including a grenade launcher attachment on the muzzle, as some obscure BATF ruling that classifies them as a "historical relic" as opposed to an "assault weapon".  Seems no different to me from a 1952 manufacture Russian SKS except for the launcher attachment, so what's the point of such a law?  As for curbing crime, well besides the illegally modified AK used in the Hollywood, CA shootout a few years back I rarely hear of these kinds of weapons used in crime.  I hear a hell of a lot more people shot with pistols than AK-47's or AR-15's.  Most criminal shootings I hear about are almost always drug or gang related or else domestic murder where the victim is a family member, usually husband or wife of the shooter.

The other restrictions usually are passed by specific states or cities, and can govern everything from the rifles that worked around the federal assault weapons ban (such as in California) to sale and possession of certain types of pistols to all of the above.  Washington DC has the toughest restrictions on ownership of handguns.  I think you can't own them period, or you need some kind of special license that's nearly impossible to get.  It really varies from place to place.  I think it might be Kennesaw, Georgia (I know it's some town down there) that actually REQUIRES people to own firearms to be a resident.  I do find it an interesting statistic that while Washington, DC has the country's highest murder rate that town in Georgia has almost zero crime.  I guess nobody wants to get shot?

Regardless of your political leanings, like weapons or hate them, you must admit that the US probably has some of the most complex laws regarding firearms ownership, while at the same time is overall the most permissive country in the free world.  I just wonder what they'd classify a railgun as. :D

Oh, and that price on the box for the .50 ammo is just about dead on for match-grade ammo.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-22, 00:42
alright.. it was an american newssite article, so I was talking US laws (of which I - luckily - don't know too much about). The article indeed discussed those reasons to be able to sell the weapons - and listed quite a lot of occasions where the barret WAS used in semi-organized crime :]

Anyway, as a dutchie, I'm glad to say that our gun laws are somewhat less complex. With a license, you can buy small firearms, or hunting rifles and stuff like that, but high caliber weapons are off limits for civilians. Wouldn't make much sense to allow people to have 'machine-gun-festivals' (I've never understood the fun in that, but I'm kind of abnormal so it may just be me :)) since the pop. density is so high, that firing any weapon once is likely to kill at least three people. Also, we seem to be a little short on deserts, canyons and other dynamite playsites. Atom is prolly unhappy about not being allowed to use a-bombs in his hometown, too :]

-----

And, to not turn this into a gun-discussion topic entirely - the last three earth items are done (excepting the bullet belt we discussed earlier).

Here's a pimp again, now sporting all items:

http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/pics/earth_items2.jpg (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/pics/earth_items2.jpg)

There we go. I'll zip it all up for ya Pho.
2 classes down, 2 to go :]


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Lunatic Guy on 2003-05-22, 04:33
Nice Tab, expecially that green box. Liked it very much. That one is the one that gives you more ammo, right?


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-22, 06:45
Again that's some great work Tab!

Yes Lunatic, the big ammo box is the 100 rounder (BFG ammo slot).  It's going to have a belt of bullets hanging out of it.  :)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Lunatic Guy on 2003-05-22, 11:17
Ok, no wonder I liked that green, big ammo box! :D


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Hedhunta on 2003-05-22, 21:05
hey, am i missing something, i didnt know the gats fired the same size ammo as the sniper rifle!(the only difference being the sniper ammo is BMG) ... 12.7 mm = .50 cal if i remember right! :blink:

(im only kidding btw)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-22, 21:43
hehe
that's what you get when a non-gun-nut is your skinner :]


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Hedhunta on 2003-05-23, 00:37
yeah, soon as this stupid ligament in my right arm heals ill whip ya up a luger to skin..heh


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Gnam on 2003-05-23, 01:40
Yeah, I was wondering about that. I don't know specifically about real gatling guns, but I would have thought the ammo would be 7.62mm or something. Then again, since your bullets allready magically change between 9mm and rifle-caliber when you switch between the luger/mp40 and gats, I guess it doesn't really matter. BTW, has there ever been a heavy, squad-gunner-role machinegun made to use pistol caliber ammunition? I guess to some extent that would defeat the definition of a heavy machinegun, but just wondering. Getting shot at with a machine gun is still getting shot at with a machinegun, wether it's 9mm,  or 50 cal.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Arno on 2003-05-23, 13:46
Very impressive work, Tab!

As always!  ;)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Hollowpoint on 2003-05-23, 23:21
A gatling gun could really have just about any size ammo, depends on who made it.  I was thinking of making a .22 calibur gatling gun. ;-)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-24, 04:34
Well, the problem with using pistol caliber rounds for the heavy machinegun role is multifaceted.  First, pistol rounds are typically round-nosed or hollowpoint bullets.  Rifle bullets are conical and pointed.  One is like a sledgehammer, the other is like an icepick.  The second is that of energy.  You can empty a clip from an MP-5 into someone wearing Kevlar and it will only bruise them.  Most rifle rounds have enough energy to penetrate VERY hard objects.  It takes a 14 pound, 3/8" forge-hardened steel plate on top of Class III body armor to stop a round from an AK or AR-15 rifle.  Rifle rounds also cause hydrostatic shock due to their high speed, which is the third part of the equation.  A .45 ACP round travels at around 900 feet per second.  A 7.62x39mm AK-47 round (a fairly lower power rifle cartridge) flies at around 2,000 feet per second.  A .50 BMG round flies at over 4,000.  Rifle bullets can fly faster, fly flatter, hit harder, and punch holes in a LOT more stuff than pistol rounds.  Ballistically they're superior in every respect to pistol rounds if your objective is punching holes like mad in something.  That's why actual machineguns use them.  It's also a hell of a lot easier to belt rifle cartridges.

Pistol-caliber automatic weapons are called sub-machineguns.  Some of them can still carry a LOT of ammo though.  The Russian PPSH has a 75 round drum.  Nasty weapon.  Thompson submachinegun also comes to mind.  Pistol-caliber subbies are still useful, but are more for close-quarters fighting whereas machineguns are more for suppressing fire and pulverizing from a mounted position.  Pistol rounds are also great in crowded urban settings where rifles over-penetrate.  That's why CT teams and SWAT use MP-5's and the like instead of assault rifles.  Shooting through buildings is a no-no when you're a cop.

Assault rifles tend to blend the old battle rifle with the submachinegun.  The AK-47 usually comes to mind as it is for all intents and purposes the most perfect incarnation of the assault rifle.  It was one of the first, and is still the best for the role it was designed for.  The Russians wanted something with the hitting power of a rifle that could be effective through normal combat ranges (up to about 300 meters, beyond which you need a sniper anyways), that could carry a boatload of ammunition like the PPSH, that was so simple a monkey could fieldstrip it, rugged enough you could drive a tank over it in the mud, pick it up, and still shoot it, and compact enough to be useful in close quarters.  Sure there are other successful designs, and I'm not belittling those, but I'm not really wanting to debate which is best tactically either.  Assault rifles are pretty much what you want in an all-out fighting gun.  They're the "general-purpose" weapon, accurate enough to do longer ranges like a battle rifle, compact enough to tote around buildings, with automatic fire capability for those nasty intense close-in fights, and carrying enough ammo to mow down whatever comes your way.

Anyway, that's the skinny on why pistol-caliber guns aren't used for heavy machineguns, and a bit of interesting weapon facts for you too. :)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: games keeper on 2003-05-24, 10:02
when daddy was young he shot with a  .50 machinegun
but they put 9mm bullets in it and wrapped aluminiumfoil aroudnd it so they would fit.
an then they shot a  three for 10 shots (every shot the shooter flew away)
and then they had to get the hell outa there before the cop came there .


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-24, 15:00
Phoenix? Why did you shoot at gamekeeper's father? :]


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Hedhunta on 2003-05-24, 15:43
well, i think the idea is that there is no problem with making a pistol round mg, it just wouldnt be effective ... (if you know the bullets are only going to bruise you.. you get the idea?) .. but i kinda object to the idea that pistol rounds only bruise.. cause thats not really true.. repeated hits.. say from a mp5 would PROBABLY go through if you managed to hit with an entire mag in relatively the same spot.. which is another reason the cops use the mp5.. because it has a good rate of fire that WILL knock you over even if your wearing a vest.. if not.. its gonna hurt more..

.45 however.. thats going to do more than bruise.. id say break bones.. .45 was designed with stopping power in mind..  so its gonna hurt regardless of vest..


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: games keeper on 2003-05-24, 16:07
thats why I use panzerfaust.
(only the boots remain)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: dev/null on 2003-05-24, 18:17
Oh, and what nice boots they are  :lol:


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-25, 00:47
Hed, I'd say that depends on range and what level of body armor somebody is wearing.  Point blank or within 10 yards I'd say possible against class I armor.  Class II or class III I'd doubt it would penetrate.  If there's a trauma plate in there you can splatter it with pistol rounds all day and it won't even dent it hardly since those will stop up to a .30-06 round.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Hedhunta on 2003-05-25, 03:40
obviously pho, but i figured talking pistol rounds you were talking about what normally they would be up against..  obviously, higher armor ratings block more stuff.. heh

oh.. lol i just watched the second harry potter movie.. i didnt realise you were making movie appearences now!


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-25, 10:11
Oh Fawkes?  He's a bit on the small side, beaks the wrong color too.  My beak is happily golden thank you, along with my feet, although I must admit they got the colors VERY close on my plumage.  Crest is off a bit, and I've got more feathers on the face, but other than that I was quite surprised.  They did a supurb job.  I was pleasantly surprised. :)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: games keeper on 2003-05-25, 13:25
who cares what class of bullets would penetrate it.
 if yo shoot enough bullets of something it will eventualy kill your opponent .
try shooting gummybears at your opponent with a firerate of 600 a minute.
the guy will choke in it.

sweet dead :)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Hedhunta on 2003-05-25, 15:24
Quote from: Phoenix
Oh Fawkes?  He's a bit on the small side, beaks the wrong color too.  My beak is happily golden thank you, along with my feet, although I must admit they got the colors VERY close on my plumage.  Crest is off a bit, and I've got more feathers on the face, but other than that I was quite surprised.  They did a supurb job.  I was pleasantly surprised. :)
ah.. so he was one of yer buds eh... cool, thought there was only one pho around..


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Gnam on 2003-05-26, 03:31
I allready knew the difference between pistol rounds/SMGs and rifle rounds/assault rifles/full machineguns, that was my point. It would be funny if there actually was some obscure full-size machinegun that used pistol rounds just because videogames always lump pistol, SMG, and  AR/machinegun ammunition in one category called bullets, and normally it's thought of as an innacuracy in realism. Wouldn't it be funny if there was some obscure weapon in existence no one knew about that validated having cross-compatible bullets?


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-26, 05:09
Well there WAS the Pederson device for the Springfield.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Vadertime on 2003-05-26, 06:58
Obviously it was too hard to make the concept work. There's actually a lot of variety in bullets and no game maker would want the hassle of recreating it all. My brother has a 25 auto pistol and a 45 auto pistol. BIG difference just in those two pistols. My 8x57 mm mauser is typical of old full powered rifles. One thing I didn't like about DOOM was the chaingun that fired the same wimpy 9mm bullets as the Berretta you start with yet it had 6 barrels and was still as slow as a WW1 water-cooled machinegun. With dehacked I usually made it as fast as an uzi or faster. It made a HUGE difference too. Also to answer gameskeeper, gummy bears wouldn't work on some things if a million were in the air in a minute. If the thing they hit was hard enough it would just have a gummy bear coating. Speaking of DOOM's Beretta pistol, isn't there a way you can make him shoot it with one hand? Somebody was complaining about his big hands smothering it in the post called DOOM rifle.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Hedhunta on 2003-05-26, 17:59
when pho codes proper animation stuff.. ill be happy to fix it.. heh.. whenever your ready i am pho(well, im not ready to june 6th though)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: games keeper on 2003-05-26, 19:02
vaer if im starting to shoot gummybears to your eyes ond 1 hits ya there your gonna cry it out to your mommy or kill yourself from the pain . :D
so dont say they are dangerous.

and watch out till I start shooting. black belgium chocolat at you.
your gonna wish it where bullets .

any way we can make a commander keen class witch shoots gummybears , pho ? (just kidding)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-05-26, 22:33
We need to get back on topic here.  Enough with the gummi bears.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Vadertime on 2003-05-27, 00:46
Yeah, enough of gummy bears. I'd rather be shot with Nerds. So, back to the real topic, how many earth items are done? Will there be any crowns, treasure boxes, or crosses? If you bring those back, what will they do? Neither Quake3 nor Generations has a score like that, so what would the earth treasures do in this mod?????


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-27, 14:00
There are no treasure items. Building in a score thing (1million treasure points == frags++) would be fun/cool ofcourse, but it is kind of weird. Also - which items would turn into treasures? The ammo? The weapons? Powerups? I don't think players would want to give those up, just to collect some gold (and inevitably die doing so).

I'm working on items in 3 tiers.
1 - ammo + small armor + health items
2 - armors + megahealth replacement
3 - (real) powerups

DooM and Earth have all their tier1 items done. Strogg's stuff is really getting there.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: games keeper on 2003-05-27, 16:10
I would feel 100% if I found a golden cross . :)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Vadertime on 2003-05-28, 07:59
Games, the cross was the least valuable of the whole bunch. Wouldn't you rather pick up a crown? Since there's really no way to put that stuff in there it doesn't make much difference. The funny thing is, except for the gold, Wolfenstein lacked a lot of stuff that showed up in later games. There was only one kind of ammo, 4 weapons total, dog food, dinner plates, and first aid boxes. Doom had a lot more stuff. Quake had an 8th weapon. Quake2 had a big bunch of stuff. Because this is an Arena mod we're stuck with the limit of things Arena allows. What will the Earth powerups look like? Since their was no haste, quad damage, invisibility, or regeneration that leaves a lot of freedom to make models for them. :)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-28, 09:09
What was, and was not, in the actual Wolfenstein3D isn't much to go on when you're dealing with Generations. In case you hadn't noticed, we do not have the exact amount of items/weapons as the original game. Generations has a flame thrower, a sniper rifle and handgrenades. That makes for a total of 7 weapons (not counting dual gats as a separate weapon here).
All the weapons have their own ammo-types, and bullets can be found in 3-size varieties. And, last but certainly not least, Earth DOES have powerups. Fully adjusted to fit earthly themes and most importantly: they add to the balance of the game.

As for how they'll look: we'll cross that bridge when we get there. I'm pretty certain a blue orbb with B.J.'s face in it comes in the picture somewhere, though...


EDIT: Arno's got a point there. Although the armor shard is already modeled and skinned (as you can see in the picture) and I can't really afford to drop and redo anything right now.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Arno on 2003-05-28, 09:09
Because Wolfenstein had no items for armor, we used treasure items instead in SOG. So picking up treasures would give you more armor. I think it would be cool for GenArena if you replace the armor shards with those golden crosses. It would look very authentic.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Vadertime on 2003-05-31, 05:29
Maybe but Tabun's already got Nazi style helmets made for that. Ask him if he replaced the yellow and red vests yet. Maybe they could be the cross and the crown.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-05-31, 11:15
BTW - I do have the grenade crate modelled now, but haven't skinned it.. in favor of this puppy:

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/skinned_smallarmor.jpg)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: ConfusedUs on 2003-05-31, 15:46
yay q2 armor shard!


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Daedalus on 2003-06-01, 13:13
its better than the q2e attempts ive seen, ohh the niceness

must have more, greed overwhelming...

*Daedalus merges with Icarus, transforms into Helios and attempts to take over the world


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Arno on 2003-06-01, 14:10
NICE!!!!   B)

Question (sorry if this has been asked before): will all these new item models appear in version 99c? I hope so, as they give each class a more unique look and feel.

And will the skins be released as JPG's, as opposed to TGA's? That might keep the filesize a bit in control.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: ConfusedUs on 2003-06-01, 15:26
Quote from: Arno
NICE!!!!   B)

Question (sorry if this has been asked before): will all these new item models appear in version 99c? I hope so, as they give each class a more unique look and feel.

And will the skins be released as JPG's, as opposed to TGA's? That might keep the filesize a bit in control.
We hope for all the items that are done to be in 99c

And we've been talking about converting all our .tga's to jpgs anyway. There's just a LOT of TGA files to convert, and some of them have fancy stuff like alpha channels and the like


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-06-01, 22:37
For those who've missed it.. the earth grenade ammo is done too.
So now all earth ammo items are really done (I'd forgotten about the pineapples for a bit, there :))

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/earth_skinned_grenades.jpg)

Just got the grenade model done, so that leaves only the skins for strogg...


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: OmEgA-X on 2003-06-02, 00:47
awesome work tab! :thumb: and im sure im not the only one eagerly awaiting the strogg stuff =). also, this question might have been answered, so dont kill me! i was wondering..are the slipgater's weps/stuff gonna get an overhaul like earth's? i hope  :huh:


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-06-02, 01:55
earth's weapons didn't get an overhaul - it was a simple matter of replacing placeholders with the real thing ™.
Nevertheless, a do-over of a big part of slipgate's arsenal is planned.. :]


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Lunatic Guy on 2003-06-02, 02:01
Tab, you really can do very nice skins. But what I'm wondering is that how do you even skin those things? Like, do you start everything totally new from a new piece of white blank in a paint program?


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Phoenix on 2003-06-02, 04:36
Tabun's created not just the skins, but the actual models for the ammo items.  He's officially a modeler now as well as a skinner, which is a tremendous relief for me.  This has sped our development time dramatically, and is making a serious possibility of these ammo boxes going in for 99c.  And yes, after 99c we do intend to redo several of the Slipgate weapons to be more Quake-ish.  As for how he makes the skins... well, I'd say he's got a magic wand tucked away somewhere, or else a "Potion of l337ness." ;)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-06-02, 12:11
This is how I work, lunatic:

1. I model boxes, cylinders, spheres or planes, depending on the item to be made, using 3d Studio Max.
2. I convert them to editable poly, and use a wide variety of meshtools to edit the above shapes, until I like what I see
3. I unwrap the sucker - for an example, see this (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/unwrapmax). This means I decide what the skinmap looks like, how it stretches and where seams are.
4. I build an MD3 and two Textporter TGA's (one that outlines everything in white on black, and one that shows the face normals using colours (- this helps me remember what was what, and where)). An example (of the strogg grenade) can be found here (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/grenade_unwrap_example.jpg)
5. I load the TGA's in Photoshop, overlaying the white-on-black mesh (always stays on top (but not always visible), so I can still see the mesh when I paint over the background, if I want to).
6. I pick an area on the map that I feel like doing first, and fill it with the most appropriate colour (for, say, the strogg bulletbox that would be brown).
I accentuate the edges and generally paint in details like scratches, highlights etc.
7. I use texture overlays to get the desired gritty effect (this usually involves a lot of browsing in my self-composed texture library).
8. I make logo's, text and other extras, overlaying them on the right parts.
This includes the ocasional adjustment layer (brightness/contrast or a masked desaturation layer for that paint-chip effect).
9. Continually checking what the skin looks like in Npherno's MD3-viewer, I keep painting until I'm happy with the result.

This is, globally, how I work(ed) on the items. Especially steps 6 to 9 happen in a strange chaotic blur of actions that just seem right. Hard to explain what my exact strategy is in this. Some days it just all falls in place, and other days things fall apart.
Also, I start out with a black canvas, always - It's easier on the eyes for me :]


For skinner/modelers like me, there are other strategies, like painting a full skinmap in Photoshop first, and unwrapping the model to fit that design. I've never even tried to do that (other than small adjustments in rare cases) - It's too restrictive on the model and quality of the unwrap IMO.

Here's some links to stuff:
The way I used to paint, before I had a tablet, and YEARS ago (http://dynamic2.gamespy.com/~tabun/tutorial/tut_hoofd.php3) - I totally revised my painting style, and work directly in colour now, but you may still get an idea of general fleshing out.
A zipped slideshow movie that shows how I made a 2d art piece (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/dl/vidtut_tab_fears.zip) - This was not too long ago (about a year, I think) and shows you more of the way I work nowadays. I think you need the TSCC codec (http://www.techsmith.com/products/studio/codecdownload.asp) but I'm not sure :)

There. Enough typing for this morning - time for breakfast :]


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Lunatic Guy on 2003-06-02, 23:47
"I accentuate the edges and generally paint in details like scratches, highlights etc."

"7. I use texture overlays to get the desired gritty effect (this usually involves a lot of browsing in my self-composed texture library).
8. I make logo's, text and other extras, overlaying them on the right parts.
This includes the ocasional adjustment layer (brightness/contrast or a masked desaturation layer for that paint-chip effect)."


You mean that you completely draw the skins, like the logos and the textures, using Photoshop's features?


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Angst on 2003-06-03, 01:14
what he's saying is, he paints and uses the filters well. Texture filters are very nice if you know how to use them, I'm personally fairly clueless, so it takes awhile for me to do something like that. But the big idea is to start with a base, and add layers for different effects.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-06-03, 01:28
what I'm saying, is that I don't really use filters :]

I use automated photoshop fx:
- mainly layer effects (blending mode), occasional outer glow or bevel (very rarely in skins)
- type tool (if you consider this filter-like)
and a few filters:
- offset, lighting fx, blur/gauss blur

I basically never use any other type of filter. Because I don't like to (gives me the creepy feeling I'm not in control & not fully the creator of the material) - but also because the filters would greatly affect the style of my work - and that would be a negative effect :]

Sometimes, especially for written text or grafiti etc, I just paint the text, instead of using a type tool. Mostly however, I use the type tool, then rasterize the layer, and adjust it with my trusty airbrush ;]


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Thomas Mink on 2003-06-03, 02:06
I'll just agree with Phoenix and say you have a magic wand hidden somewhere. :)


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: MoJoJoJoe on 2003-06-03, 23:44
Great Job Tab more than halfway done. 54 models done and skinned some not in game status yet. And only 47 skins to do and less than that to make a model for. Keep up the good work Tab.


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: MoJoJoJoe on 2003-06-03, 23:56
About the Wolf armor thing. Return to Castle has an answer. Also a mere seggestion on how to cover the three armor sections from me.


Armor shard= Flak Plate (suggestion)

50 point armor= Light Flak Jacket (suggestion)

100 point armor= Flak Jacket (from return to castle with a new model and new skin of course).

Comments Tab?


Title: Re: Earth Items - Sneak Preview
Post by: Tabun on 2003-06-04, 02:44
the armor shard => german helmet (it's done and in the items preview you've undoubtedly seen) - no time to go back and chance that now  (and I personally don't really see a reason either ;))

The other armors will definately not make it into 99c, seeing as how that would probably take too damn long. Once I get started on that, we'll have to decide if we're going for a RTCW look, or use Arno's tip there, and turn the armor items into a treasury. Realism&Intuitive stuff  vs  the authentic wolf3d feel.. it'll be a team poll, probably.

P.S. I'm quite puzzled where you get those numbers.. 54 models & skins? Not even close, even when I would count armor & powerups - and they're not even scheduled for 99c :)

Here's an overview of what's done - what's to be done:
http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/itemstatus.htm (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/itemstatus.htm)
This does not include map-models & textures, but it amounts to 30-something models, and 50-something skins altogether (Now if that wasn't over a 2 year-period, it'd be a shitload :))