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Author Topic: News that concern me  (Read 7958 times)
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Atom235
 
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« on: 2003-04-04, 08:36 »

http://www1.timesofindia.indiatimes.com/cm...w?msid=42280259



(it works, but it might take more time than usual, even if it only contain text)

I know it is a bit war related, but I would like to keep it separate from war related debate.



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dev/null
 
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« Reply #1 on: 2003-04-04, 15:14 »

Quote
Embedded journalists are always escorted by military minders. What they write is controlled and, through them, the military feeds its own version of the facts to the world. When independent journalists such as us come around, we pose a threat because they cannot control what we write

Ah, so true... Though I don't know if that could be the reasons our soldiers acted in such a way (certainly not something that should be ruled out though).
« Last Edit: 2003-04-04, 15:32 by dev/null » Logged
Hedhunta
 
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« Reply #2 on: 2003-04-04, 23:26 »

pfft. lol, theres two sides to every story.. for all we know this is pure bs intended to make the US look bad as usual..  if the soldiers truely HAD beaten those guys up, they all wouldve been court martialed and sent home..  i really think its pure bs. especially since they didnt get a single quote from ANY of the soldiers that 'supposedly' beat them up for no good reason..
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Phoenix
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« Reply #3 on: 2003-04-05, 00:55 »

Hmm, for some reason it's giving an XSL error when I try to load that, so I can't read the article, however I can tell something of the tone based on dev/null's quote from the story.  One thing I've found quite consistant throughout this whole conflict is that the press has gone out of its way to spin it as negatively as possible.  US troops actually get shot at?  Here's the kind of headlines and soundbites that were common:

"US troops face major setbacks.."
"Iraqi opposition heavier than expected, delaying coalition advances..."
"War progress slower than expected..."
"Stocks tank on war fears..."
"US war planners call for a 4-6 day pause in advancement..."
"Threat of guerilla forces underestimated by the Pentagon..."
"Iraqi opposition threatens thinly stretched supply line..."
"Us troops at the forward positions running out of food..."
"Oil cound hit $80 a barrel if war breaks out"  (actual headline, remember that one?  What's oil cost right now?)

You listen to the news and it sounds like the US is LOSING the war!  Realistically when you look at the situation in Iraq, how many US casualties are there?  How far did the troops push in during the first few days on the ground?  Have the "thinly stretched supply lines" been severed?  Funny, I thought the US Marines were doing an excellent job defending it.  The stock market isn't as down as it was, and I'd hardly call losing 200 points "tanking".  2,000 maybe, but not 200.  I swear, the entire world is infected with pessimism!

This is part why the military doesn't want reporters roaming around and instead opted to nestle them in with the troops.  First, this IS a warzone, and people (surprise) get SHOT AT.  Second, reporters, when left to roam around freely have a VERY bad habit of giving away things like troop positions, unit strength, battle plans, etc.  Who needs spies when the enemy can catch MSNBC or FOX and see who's going where and how many are on the way?  I seem to recall Geraldo Rivera drawing maps in the sand to this effect.  Also, anyone remember this guy?

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid...tt_10&printer=1

If reporting was actually fair and objective then I'd say free-roaming reporters would be a good thing, but looking at recent as well as past events, two things can be concluded about reporters.  First, they're idiots, or at least a lot of them seem to be.  Why would you WANT to go into a warzone in the first place?  They also have a bad habit of not knowing what NOT to say, not as a matter of censorship, but as a matter of operational security.  Second, they tend to have bias.  Deny it all you want, but if people like Arnett aren't biased, then the meaning of the word was re-written somewhere.  Reporting the facts is one thing, but when the reporting becomes agenda-driven storytelling and spin, which it usually is in the mainstream press, a line has to be drawn so that the facts can actually get out somehow without someone doctoring them first.  If you think the military doctors the facts, what about CNN?  What about ABC, NBC, and CBS?  What about Al-Jazeera, if you can believe anything at all on that so-called "independant" media outlet?  I think the military was wise for it's decision to handle this the way they did.  It keeps the reporters from getting shot, and keeps them from giving away the wrong information to the enemy.  It also puts the cameras on the front, which while it might make the troops a little more hesitant in their actions being in front of them, which could cause some degree of perceived endangerment, people can sit back and watch the war unfold on cable TV, see it as it happens, and the camera is not filtering things like the newsdesks and papers do.  You get to see first-hand why war is hell, what it's really like, and why it should be avoided whenever possible.  You also get to see the truth of what's happening, or at least, the part that the camera can actually see when the reporters aren't hogging the view.  It's the military's way of saying "We're the goodguys, we have nothing to hide in what we do when we do it, so long as it doesn't endanger our troops, watch and learn".  You want to see what the US military is doing?  Turn on the TV, simple as that, the facts are there for you to see yourself.  I don't have cable TV, so I can't watch or offer comment on what's going on there.  Unfortunately I only have available what's printed on the web, but at least you can judge for yourself thesedays without relying on Dan Rather's or Peter Jennings' version of events...
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Hedhunta
 
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« Reply #4 on: 2003-04-05, 02:40 »

lol funniest thing i keep seeing, EVERY time a bomb hits somewhere in bagdad its announced as 'massive bombing raid in downtown bagdad' even if only one or two bombs were actually dropped..  

pho has again hit everything spot on, weve lost less than 60 troops total, most of them because of equipment failure and presumably pilot error(which im starting to get pissed at, its either the mechanics being lazy or the pilots are getting arrogant)... the iraqis have lost over 500.. if not more ..  

the us is losing the war... ok, so whos so desperate theyre driving suicide bombs into checkpoints? iraq

the us is losing the war, ok, who is the one driving trucks full of civilians to check points, making them get out of the car, then shooting thru those same civilians to shoot at american troops, wait, could it be IRAQ?

the us is losing the war, so whose the side cowering in civilian buildings and religious landmarks.. ? IRAQ again..

whose not bombing civilians(on purpose anyhow.), religous landmarks, and treating wounded iraqi soldiers as if they were our own? whoa, could it be THE USA?  

weird how that works.. we go in to try to make things better for people yet the media makes it out to make the world look like were in there slaughtering poor iraqis(which, btw would probably give no thought to blowing off any reporters head with his ak47)...
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dev/null
 
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« Reply #5 on: 2003-04-05, 06:02 »

Wow, I don't know where you get your news from Phoenix, but I find that most of the media seems bought out. I don't think it would be possible to show the Republicans in a brighter limelight. Granted, there are a few instances where a bit of actual reporting happens, but that seems to be a rarity these days. Ever since 9/11 it seems that it's considered treason to even think about voicing one's opions if they differ from that of the fat cats in Washington.
« Last Edit: 2003-04-05, 06:03 by dev/null » Logged
Atom235
 
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« Reply #6 on: 2003-04-05, 10:53 »

Quote
lol funniest thing i keep seeing, EVERY time a bomb hits somewhere in bagdad its announced as 'massive bombing raid in downtown bagdad' even if only one or two bombs were actually dropped..


That's true Slipgate - Smile. The "massive bombings" are dogs poo compared to the REALLY massive air raids in WW II which spared no civilians, as these bombings do.

Quote
weird how that works.. we go in to try to make things better for people yet the media makes it out to make the world look like were in there slaughtering poor iraqis(which, btw would probably give no thought to blowing off any reporters head with his ak47)...


Ummm.. so Iraqis are reporter slaughters? Now gimme a break...they are humans, just like you and me.


Btw if you have an error or you can't click that link for some reason (lazyness) here it is in the whole:


"DUBAI: In what could be seen as an embarrassment to US-led invading forces, two western journalists were allegedly arrested, beaten up and deprived of food and water in Iraq by American armymen.

 Luis Castro and Victor Silva, both reporters working for RTP Portuguese television, were allegedly held for four days, had their equipment, vehicle and video tapes confiscated, and were then escorted out of Iraq by the 101st Airborne Division of US army to Kuwait City, Jeddah-based Arab News reported.

 It said that despite possessing the proper 'Unilateral Journalist' accreditation issued by the Coalition Forces Central Command, both journalists were detained.

 "I have covered 10 wars in the past six years in Angola, Afghanistan, Zaire, and East Timor. I have been arrested three times in Africa, but have never been subjected to such treatment or been physically beaten before," Castro said in an interview to Arab News.

 Castro and Silva entered Iraq 10 days ago. They had been to Umm Qasr and Basra and were traveling to Najaf when they were stopped by the military police.

 According to Castro, their accredited identification was checked and they were given the all clear to proceed.

 "Suddenly, for no reason, the situation changed," Castro said. "We were ordered down on the ground by the soldiers. They stepped on our hands and backs and handcuffed us."

 "We were put in our own car. The (US) soldiers used our satellite phones to call their families at home. I begged them to allow me to use my own phone to call my family, but they refused. When I protested, they pushed me to the ground and kicked me in the ribs and legs."

 After being held for four days, the two journalists were transported to the 101st Airborne Division to be escorted out of Iraq, the report said. Castro has had all his tapes and equipment returned to him, but not his jeep, he said.

 Castro alleged they were subjected to such treatment as they were not "embedded" with allied forces and were a "threat" because there could be no "control" on their reporting.

 "I believe the reason we were detained was because we were not embedded with the US forces," Castro said.

 "Embedded journalists are always escorted by military minders. What they write is controlled and, through them, the military feeds its own version of the facts to the world. When independent journalists such as us come around, we pose a threat because they cannot control what we write."

 "A lieutenant in charge of the military police told me, My men...are trained only to attack, please try to understand," Castro claimed.

 He said at Camp Udairi, where they were awaiting a helicopter to take them out of Iraq, they told their stories to members of the US Marines.

 One soldier, who Castro asked not be identified, wrote out a note, which was shown to Arab News. The note said: "I am so sorry that you had to endure such bad conditions, but remember that I care and pray you can forgive."

 
"The Americans in Iraq are totally crazy and are afraid of everything that moves," said Castro, "I would have expected this to happen to us at the hands of the Iraqis, but not at the hands of the Americans."

"The Americans call themselves liberators, but look what they have done to us," he added. "
« Last Edit: 2003-04-05, 11:35 by Atom235 » Logged
Hedhunta
 
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« Reply #7 on: 2003-04-05, 17:26 »

no no no no.. i didnt mean to say they were reporter slaughterers.. rofl, and i think you know that, i meant to say that any of the iraqis doing the bad stuff( ie the ones that refuse to surrender, the Rep guard, etc) are the ones that probably wouldnt give much thought to shooting a reporter..   i was trying to say that getting beat up by a couple of marines is the nicest thing they could have had happen to them..eheh
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Phoenix
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« Reply #8 on: 2003-04-06, 04:44 »

The news media is friendly to Republicans? :lol:

*Falls off his perch cackling hysterically*

Where do YOU get your news from?  Please, I'd love to see a "Republican-friendly" news outlet.  That's a contradiction in terms!!  Unless of course you're actually counting ultra-rightwing talk radio as "news"!

*Staggers off cackling into the night...*
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dev/null
 
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« Reply #9 on: 2003-04-06, 05:54 »

In terms of comparision to the democrats and past presidents, especially under a situation such as this one, I would say the media has been overly nice towards Bush and his administration.
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Atom235
 
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« Reply #10 on: 2003-04-06, 10:54 »

Quote
no no no no.. i didnt mean to say they were reporter slaughterers.. rofl, and i think you know that, i meant to say that any of the iraqis doing the bad stuff( ie the ones that refuse to surrender, the Rep guard, etc) are the ones that probably wouldnt give much thought to shooting a reporter.. i was trying to say that getting beat up by a couple of marines is the nicest thing they could have had happen to them..eheh


It's important for both sides that they avoid killing/injuring reporters.   Slipgate - Smile


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games keeper
 

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« Reply #11 on: 2003-04-06, 21:08 »

never ever kill your fans . or the camera who shows your behaviour .
its nevergood for your name .
(watch ut2k3 intro , poor fan gets knocked K.o. by his hero ..Tssssss.)
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Footman
 

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« Reply #12 on: 2003-04-07, 02:23 »

Quote
never ever kill your fans . or the camera who shows your behaviour .
its nevergood for your name .
(watch ut2k3 intro , poor fan gets knocked K.o. by his hero ..Tssssss.)
Quote
I failed English.

back on topic: yea, the media sucks.
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Assamite
 
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« Reply #13 on: 2003-04-08, 01:00 »

FOX NEWS

Could it be any more obvious? Banging Head against Wall

Unless, of course, you don't count it as a news station, but rather a propaganda network disguised as one.
In that case, MSNBC is one of the most "Republican-friendly". Technically, ALL of the major networks are Repulbican-friendly - meaning, that they don't chew the Repubs out as Fox does with the Dems. Hell, they're HARDLY CRITICAL of the Republicans.
Liberal media, indeed.  Slipgate - Roll Eyes
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Phoenix
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« Reply #14 on: 2003-04-08, 01:10 »

Well, Fox claims that they cover both sides equally from what I understand.  I do not watch television news very often, so I leave that to the viewer to decide how true this is.
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« Reply #15 on: 2003-04-08, 03:41 »

I think its rather pointless to say the media is either Republican or democrat friendly. I personally think the media are simply whores and will side with who ever is in power at that particular time. during the clinton administration people often complained that the media had a liberal bias just as people complain about a conservative bais now.

 and on a note about fox news. the whole "fair and balanced" thing is only half right. they are fair but not balenced.  the fairness being that guests of all viewpoints are allowed to voice thier opinions even if the anchors and hosts tend to tilt conservative. except for somtimes on Bill O'Reilly when he thinks his guests are spinning.
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games keeper
 

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« Reply #16 on: 2003-04-08, 08:22 »

have you ever seen that simson show .
whee homer is in sace .

that newsreporter gets a picture o homer in space in but on it are only ands .
and he inmediatly thinks the shuttle is invaded by giant antz and he inmediatly says he welkoms the antz on earth and says he hopes that they will spare his life because he already made a cake for them .  Slipgate - Laugh :lol: Slipgate - Laugh  
(or something like that ) Oh My F'ing Gawd
« Last Edit: 2003-04-08, 08:22 by games keeper » Logged
dev/null
 
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« Reply #17 on: 2003-04-08, 15:29 »

Geeze, I'm glad I know which episode you're talking about or I probably never would have been able to decode a few of those sentences Slipgate - Tongue
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« Reply #18 on: 2003-04-08, 18:32 »

B)
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Devlar
 
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« Reply #19 on: 2003-04-10, 19:55 »

Quote
Well, Fox claims that they cover both sides equally from what I understand

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA

Fox news is the American equivilent of the Iraqi Ministry of information
http://www.haaretzdaily.com/hasen/pages/Sh...o=282047&sw=Fox
I'll stick to the BBC and the CBC, Ironic that state owned television stations like the BBC, CBC, Al Jazeera are all doing a better job covering the war than so called "free press" (aka. Private interest press). I doubt anyone here will know what the hell I'm talking about but Noam Chomsky is a guy who has to be clapping right now, his five filters played out perfectly

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