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Author Topic: Humiliation? Frustration? A discussion. ((as split from the 99fdemos thread))  (Read 23957 times)
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Phoenix
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« on: 2005-05-13, 23:37 »

4 vs Tab instead of 4 vs Pho this time?  This I've got to see.  I have a pretty good idea how it ends though!  <3
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Tabun
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« Reply #1 on: 2005-05-14, 14:18 »

It's not that special actually - that's what Team DM tuesday has been since the day we launched it. Courtesy of Alu, who probably turned his propaganda-network on me ;]

At one point, people teaming up also started trying to spawnkill me and later even tried organised map control (Alu hunting me down, Kingu camping armor) - which worked eerily well. And to think that in the old days, I could set handicap 70 and still win 4vs1's with a considerable score difference...

Grandpa Tab lurks on his pipe and contemplates the good old times he had.

--

also, belated response:

Quote
and he was still going strong! Granted, the time limit was hit right then...

When the timelimit is about to hit (actually 2 or 3 seconds before that happens), you can hit someone with a BFG9000 and still don't cause any damage. All players are invulnerable right before the game ends.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-14, 14:20 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #2 on: 2005-05-14, 20:10 »

Aye, I watched the demo last night.  I thought it was going to be "Doom Only", I didn't realize it was full classes.  I saw the blatant spawnkilling attempts you spoke of, as well as obvious powerup camping toward the end.  Nice job of dispatching that guy, and more than once.  I must say that when I played TDM vs Pho on the US server the game was a bit more honorable as far as my opposition was concerned.  I also don't think Simply Dead is a very good map for a 3 or 4 on 1 due to its openness.  You did toward the end exactly what I would have done in that situation - just BFG the !@#!@ out of everyone to pay them back for their rudeness.  Thumbs up!
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Makou
 

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« Reply #3 on: 2005-05-15, 16:12 »

Hey, you wouldn't let yourself be humilated, so why humilate everybody else?

-----

And on topic: As I recall, those were all some wild maps last night. And I was actually able to play this time!
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Tabun
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« Reply #4 on: 2005-05-15, 16:25 »

What's humiliating about being raped by three Doom BFGs? I think I'm missing something here ;]
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Makou
 

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« Reply #5 on: 2005-05-15, 16:28 »

US forum game a few weeks ago that you ran away from? Or was I imagining that? Slipgate - Tongue
« Last Edit: 2005-05-15, 16:28 by Makou » Logged

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Tabun
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« Reply #6 on: 2005-05-15, 16:44 »

I guess that will be haunting me for the rest of my life huh? Think of it what you will. Life is way too short to waste time on frustrating situations created by artificial handicaps. Besides, I've always admitted to being a horrible HPB, how I deal with that is my own business, not an excuse to insult me :p
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Lordbane2110
 
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« Reply #7 on: 2005-05-15, 18:28 »

sure i don't mine 3 or more people trying to put a cap in my ass, happens all the time anyway  Slipgate - Wink
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Makou
 

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« Reply #8 on: 2005-05-15, 18:37 »

It's not so much an attempt at insulting you as it's something I don't think I'll ever understand. You won't play in an FFA on Central because of your ping because you don't want to be "humiliated," but you'll LPB it up on Euro in TDM alone against several people and beat the crap out of them. That's fairly humiliating, in my eyes, whether those players opted to go that route or not. Slipgate - Sad

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« Reply #9 on: 2005-05-15, 19:27 »

I'd love to play on the USA server, but its in the middle of the night!

We early birds are never at our best at that time.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-15, 19:31 by shambler » Logged
Phoenix
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« Reply #10 on: 2005-05-15, 20:09 »

Let's all stay good, everyone has their reasons for not wanting to play certain ways.  I think the term "frustrating" is more appropriate than "humiliating" in regards to ping.  It's hard to play with a fairly high ping, especially when everyone else is playing at 50, and I can certainly understand getting a little peeved when you get 3 people trying to BFG you at the same time on a map where there's literally no place to hide.  I didn't see the demo Tab took as Tab humiliating anyone, I saw it as a difficult match as far as both sides were concerned.  Why should Tab be ashamed of his gaming ability?  That's like saying I should be ashamed of when I pummel people on the USA server.  I don't think either of us go out of our way to rub it in anyone's noses.  If people opt to do a "tdm vs player" that's their choice.  Nobody's being forced into anything here. Slipgate - Wink

Ping is part of the same reason I don't frequent the Euro server that often.  I'm rusty enough as it is, why add in extra latency if I don't have to?  I'd prefer to manually handicap myself if the situation calls for it, although I've played handicapped on Euro before.  I think you might have been there for that one.

Tab:  An "all vs Tab and Pho" would be interesting, we could see about doing that sometime.  I wouldn't mind being the HPB guppy in this case and play it on Euro, so long as I can be Doom.
 Thumbs up!
« Last Edit: 2005-05-15, 20:12 by Phoenix » Logged


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Tabun
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« Reply #11 on: 2005-05-15, 20:52 »

My sentiments exactly: there's no 'humiliation' involved, and if that was my choice of words at the time, I stand corrected. Humiliation is what happens when you play as Doom and get owned by a Strogg player using only the blaster. Hence the award ;]

Even though you feel it does not matter, I feel it does; it was never my idea to have All vs Tab (or All vs Anyone for that matter) TDM. This was opted by someone quite a while ago, or naturally occurs when everyone joins the team I'm not in. It has become somewhat of a tradition, I guess, although I'll never be the one to suggest it, even now. More often than not, even in FFA there are shouts along the lines of 'everyone kill Tab!', usually for no real reason other than having a good laugh.

The only thing that is perhaps close to humiliating in this kind of game, is that the opposing team uses cheap tricks to try and gain a victory (like described by Pho earlier in this thread) - entirely their own doing. And again, it is only frustrating to me during play, I do not se it as a personal victory.

Another factor that plays a role here is the 'fame' that I, like other moderately good players, have gathered. There seems to be a Name to live up to. Whenever I get defeated or even killed, people seem amazed that they've done The-Impossible, not realizing that there's always a good deal of hype going down.
The famous bee in my bonnet is that it usually leads to people rubbing in victories/kills in all sorts of circumstances, including ping difference situations, uneven teams, while using handicaps etc. It sometimes leads to questionable play, like camping, spawn- and chatfrags and other easy kills. This in itself is not that big a problem (if I'm the victim), but it is the pride that others seem to feel when reaping the benefits that stings.

To me, it feels like I run the risk of letting something slip and giving others false feelings of pride, superiority etc. Whatever I have achieved, I have done through practice, dedication and the will to improve - all anyone has to do to surpass it, is do the same +1. Having someone feel (or act) victorious over me because of the aforementioned artificial advantages just annoys me, as in situations where the roles are reversed, I take them in account as best I can.

Arguably that frustration and the unwillingness to accept defeat is my weakness. It should in any case help to explain that which apparantly cannot be understood.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-15, 20:57 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Makou
 

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« Reply #12 on: 2005-05-15, 20:55 »

Hey, the only time I ever do an "Everyone kill Tab" call is when I get tired of that railgun winging me one too many times, or when you land on Doom and just won't die. Slipgate - Smile

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shambler
 
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« Reply #13 on: 2005-05-15, 21:01 »

Quote from: Phoenix
Why should Tab be ashamed of his gaming ability?
Why should any of us, for that matter? I'll never be 'very good' just like a lot of players, but that doesn't stop us from having a great time. We play this mod to enjoy it. if it gets too serous it takes away the fun.

Set your res to 1024x768, with full textures and relax and enjoy.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #14 on: 2005-05-16, 17:10 »

Tab summed up my feelings pretty much 100%.  I can't count the number of matches I've come in second because of the "Kill the bird!" mentality.  If there's another "uber" player on the server, guess what?  You're still not going to win by offing me repeatedly, or wearing me down because the other "uber" player is going to use the opportunity to take me out, and then mop everyone else up.  The end result is you still don't win, you just knock me far enough off my perch for someone else to climb up.  GG, all you did is inflate someone else's ego at my expense.  How did that help you climb the scoreboard any?  What's the difference if I frag you, or someone else frags you?  Fragged is fragged.

Gunning for the #1 guy (or at least the one with the reputation anyway) also tends to be suicidal because the more you encounter a difficult player the more you're going to respawn.   Playing difficult opponents does improve your ability, but not if you die in every attempt.  To me the wiser course of action is to concentrate on keeping yourself healthy.  Run the items, grab powerups when you can, and frag whatever targets you encounter as best as you can.  This balances the gameplay out as it ensures no one single player always gets the Quad, ir always gets the megahealth, or always gets the red armor.  This is especially important if you have an item hog on the server, or a powerup camper.  A good player is going to try to run the items so the best way to mix things up is to go for the good stuff when you can, especially when the stronger players are not around them.  If you ignore the powerups and strong items I guarantee you you're going to get the snot shot out of you by those who don't.  Phoenix's first rule of fragging - tank first, fight last.  Trying it the other way around gets you dead.  Thumbs up!

The only players I'll specifically gun for are people who go out of their way to deliberately tick me off (repeatedly chainsaw charging me after I've just respawned is a good example) or else someone being a llama.  If someone's spoiling it for everyone on the server I'll stop playing to win and start hounding the offender.  Otherwise I just shoot whoever I run into.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-16, 17:12 by Phoenix » Logged


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Tabun
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« Reply #15 on: 2005-05-17, 09:10 »

I hear ya.

By the way, this kind of thing is what I'm talking about:


Quote
That said, Tab only beating me 3-1 on q2dm5 in 1v1 Strogg-only is an achievement in my book. The secret? HIDE!! (scalliano)

In which game we were just having some laughs, goofing around and not even trying at times. I know I was, and I'm pretty sure he was too, which is why this kind of post raises my left brow.
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« Reply #16 on: 2005-05-17, 11:12 »

I shoot who I can, when I can, however I can. At times I also switch targets... sharing the love, I guess.

I tend to be at my best when I don't even try... my Euro server venture as 'WhozitWhatsis' is an example. I finished last when actually trying.. got annoyed and left. Came back to just have fun, under a different name, and did signifcantly better... even if I did annoy some people (taunting with Anarki whenever I felt like it).

All in all tho... I'm happy as long as I break even (1 kill per 1 minute). If I get higher, yay.. if I get lower, I start getting annoyed. If I finish last, I usually quit (even if I broke even). Unless it's a small game, then I usually expect it.

So anyway... my victory is just breaking even. Might not be first in the scoreboard, but pfeh... doesn't bother me none. If it's a smaller game on a bigger map, breaking even isn't likely.. in which case, not finishing last is my goal.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-17, 11:15 by ~SpAwN~ » Logged

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Tabun
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« Reply #17 on: 2005-05-17, 14:00 »

Hehe, I knew you were 'Whozitsomethingsomething' - I recognized your style of play and jumpy connection :]
It's funny though, but it works that for me too, sometimes. Additionally, when I played a few rounds as 'C5H11N2O2P' (work that one out for yourselves, wiseguys), people tended to be more inclined to view my style of play as annoying or willfully malignant for some reason. I don't know if this is due to the usual animosity felt towards (skilled) newcomers or because they just got used to the way I play and aren't annoyed if they see [Tabun] in the obit?
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #18 on: 2005-05-17, 14:40 »

Aye, I went through some phases

1) 1999 - Damn this games fun! Public server frenzy.
2) 2000 - OK its fun, but now for some clan league action
3) 2001 - OK time to play this as a sport, step up the pace joining multiple leagues
4) 2002 - OK playing Q3 seriously kinda takes the fun out of it when your opponents take it WAY too seriously - return to one league and play more on public servers
5) 2003 - Leagues not givin the adrenaline hit - roam the publics for fun, annihilating everything in sight - smiling like a fat kid with cake when I get called a bot.
6) 2004 - Aging veteran having taken a break returns as a shadow of his former self, plays amongst players who are aggressive and losing so badly just made me irate and prone to saying things like 'In my day. young bucky...' and shaking my digital fist.
7) 2005 - Well past it! ..but enjoying it again for the simplistic nature of the game and the fact that no other game compares for speed, precision and the control the player has over their actions...

I've just gotten used to playing badly now, but every once in a while the old spark awakens.

I still consider good/low ping players on even teams taking Quad to be dishonorable and RA shouldn't be necessary unless health is particularly low and its a question of survival - in the same way that many percieve spawn camping to be so.

And on standard Q3 servers, BFG servers are considered newbie servers, no self respecting admin would run a BFG server and no self respecting player would play on one...
But these are no standard Q3 servers :p

I wouldn't mind a clarification on the Dual Gats ...
I mean are Dual Gats the Earth equivalent of BFG? If so then surely they have a crazy advantage on non bfg maps as they can just pick two of the lower dmg weapons up..
If they aren't then never mind.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-17, 14:44 by Damager » Logged
Moshman
 
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Yarg!

« Reply #19 on: 2005-05-17, 15:52 »

Me I just suck harder then one sucks a mint. I'm no competition, i'm just a free kill for your friendly neighborhood Tab. It's funny sometimes, in q3dm17 I always come out with a negative score of like -23 or something because I visit outer space alot. Slipgate - Laugh I seriously have trouble with the Rocket Launcher, I can't lead the player that well. I just suck it's depressing sometimes  Slipgate - Distraught *takes a prozac* Ahhh.... my happy place.....
« Last Edit: 2005-05-17, 15:54 by Little Washu » Logged

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