Yes, you should! And as before, I'd still help you out with textures (and feedback). :]

Here's the outside area in Doom II:

Looks green enough to me.. ;]

I'd do tufts of grass (keeping the textures as they are, though), but I really can't be bothered to model and skin them at the moment. If you know a good set of radiant-usable plants/grassy bits, I'd be very much obliged. :]

Later today I'll "release" a test version of this map. I'm going to try and get as much in there as I can, but it'll probably lack proper bot support.

Ok, I loaded up the original map to compare.. and this isn't the original item layout. The items that are there are correct.. but.. there's numerous health items missing throughout the map, some pistol clips, the armor (and health) in the blue room secret area, a few armor helmets, the shotgun and shells outside (may as well make it a double shotty and shell box), and the RL behind the rocket box in that secret area.

I knew it looked a bit empty when I loaded it up and ran through it.. but that said, the original layout is a bit dubious to me. Why have two BFGs pretty much right next to each other? In fact, that whole 'start area' is a bit overpopulated in the weapon category. Just my opinion though.. but hey, it IS true to form in that regard.

I think the map looks great overall.. but perhaps the 'brown rooms' could be brightened up slightly more, not much tho.
I didn't notice any clipping..
..or texture errors..
..nor did the skybox have lines.
The map is quite 'Doomy'
The bots acted like bots as well.. but with the items that are missing in the map, they have no real reason to use any more of it than they currently do.

I liked the placeholder levelshot, oddly enough.. and also the little tidbit with the exit button. Two nice nostalgic cues.

*** ..please note that you can disregard any of this about items if certain entities only work on a current internal version of Gen. ;o

Ok. I've never really played Doom II's Entryway in multiplayer, so I had to load up the doom2.wad in an editor to see the items. I selected "multiplayer/deathmatch only" for an item filter, and what you see is what I got. I guess it leaves out a lot of stuff. :/ So I can't use that editor (Doom Builder) to see what items are DM vs what are SP only. Oh well. If anyone has a nice visual chart with the items for DM specifically, that'd be a great help! Otherwise, I'm going to have to see about loading up D2 for DM here, but I guess I'd have to get a special doom version for that?

About the items: I want to make three versions, unless that turns out to be a really bad idea.
1. Purist version (everything like it was in D2)
2. Normal Q3A version
3. Balanced Generations version

I don't know exactly how I want to pack those, but file size isn't much of a problem these days anyway. Besides, CTF in this one is pretty much out, so no need to worry about that, I guess.

Light issues can be helped, though it is iffy. I wanted to keep the contrast between the areas that was in the original, between indoors and outdoors. If I both tone down the outdoros and tone up the indoors, I'm afraid to get rid of the difference. The first thing I'll try is just to dim the sky texture's lighting function and the sun, that should help make it less overbright outside.

As I said before, ideal scale seems to be 0.7 times what I made the map in. If I can find a way to make the patches/curves behave, that would be workable. Maybe I can write up a script that does that scaling for me, though that sounds like a heck of a lot of work... Maybe I can try a different editor for it aswell, though I don't know of any better ones than GTKradiant..

By the way, I forgot to ask: how are FPS for you guys? On my non-gaming rig, I get drops in the chainsaw area and when I'm in the water in the big outdoorsy room.

Phoenix's excellent nitpicking received and map treated. Fixed item placement. Anyone else find anything amiss?

By the way, Doom Builder has the nice feature of showing light levels in the original:

First, the big window: I really don't want to make the (entire) window player-clipped. I see how it works for gameplay, but that way, spectators would be trapped on one side or the other (currently by default the outside, which is worse), as long as the door is closed. The spectator-door-teleport trick only works for normal doors, not triggered ones. I can also not make it look neat, as adding actual transparant-glass textures to that would cost too much GPU processing power... (but that is a side issue)
What I can try to do is clip the window so that you can only rocket/plasma-jump on it. The disadvantage of that is that it would work very counterintuitively and it will look odd if you're standing on nothingness in the upper part of the window.

I think I'll just make all switches "work" for 60 seconds (or perhaps 90...) and then switch back. Not sure what to do about the RL room, though. I could make it work like in Doom, btw, but I'm a little hesitant to do so.

I think I can make the start-area floor a bit higher up, so you can't jump on it normally, but I think I only want to do that for the/a purist version. Since there's a player spawn there, it's a little odd to use the area as a rocket-jumpable important-item spot in a rebalanced version.

Additional spawn points -- sounds like a good idea. No real need to go purist there, I guess.

Makes sense, fair enough. I'm clipping the window. :]

I quoted your private message here Phoenix -- hope you don't mind..


I've fixed the chainsaw spawn.
The doors did all close after a time (there's no always-open in Q3), but you'd have to wait an hour for them to do so. :]

Right now I have the following timers set for the next version:
- Blue room platforms: 60sec
- Blue room armor door 120sec
- Doors to "secret rooms" (RL, stimpack) 30sec
- Door to outside 60sec
Somehow feels like a nice set-up. No real logic to it, actually, but some variation sounds like a good idea.


I'm glad to hear even the Doom II layout is fun/nostalgic to play! I've played bots for a bit, but only played Doom vs Doom bots. Besides, I can't really test for DM nostalgia myself ... :]

By the way, how are FPS? I want to add some more detail, but I don't really know if I should be worried about r_speeds at this point.

By the way, newer version that Phoenix spoke of, is here: http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/tabd2map01/tabd2map01_beta1.zip

I'll have to boot my backup system and test it out on older hardware as well as my newer card.  I didn't notice anything serious that caught my attention right away, but I was paying more attention to gameplay and map details than FPS at the time.  I'll need to test FPS in .99f and the non-pubic beta and get back to you.

Timings sound good. 

All i can say is: almost perfect there is only three things that, might need to get fixed but no major things

1. every curved archway has it texture rotated at the wrong direction

2. curves in the ceiling at the corridors, has it textures misaligned

3. i also got strange cracks in the skybox.

oh also feels like an overkill with 2 bfg's btw!, and imo you should make the platform where the bfg, chainsaw n stuff more hard to reach in doom u had to actually spawn there to get the goodies, also plasmagun is to easy to reach since you just can jump up and grab it.

cept that well done! awsome map

god if i only had easy access to somewhere to upload a screenshot id show u what i mean -.- well lets say at the  "doors" in the rooms where the bfg's are if you look closely you see the texture "breaks" oddly and with a thin line at the base of the curve, took a closer look at it wasnt that the texture was rotaded wrong, are you using an endcap curve? or is it even a curve brush? i dont know what it is, it just feels...odd

for the best result when using curves to make round "arches" i use 2 bevel curves and put a simple patch mesh to fill the gap (rember to group the curve brushes)

well was ages since i did the kind of curves you use there i tend to avoid curves as much as possible nowdays since they mostly produce some kind of errors when using them...or cracking -.-
thought since you bend the curve in so many ways there it's hard to avoid. also deteced a skew curve in the corridor if u enter from the "start of the map aka bfg room and look to the left you will notice it.