Ok. Finally managed to get something close to a playable version wrapped up.

This is "alpha 1":
Download: tabq1dm5_alpha1.zip

You know the drill.

The map is presented as the final "default" version will be, but this is obviously the "purist" version. If anything is different from Quake 1, let me know. Note: I have deliberately placed the lightning gun at a more sensible position.

A few side notes:

• Bots work, but aren't tweaked in any way yet. I played a round against them, and was pleasantly surprised by their behaviour. Even without any clipping and tweaking, they seem to get all the weapons and even go for the button and the MH just fine. They also seem to be able to exit the water intelligently, which is extremely good news.
• Aesthetics are pretty much done. I don't think I can add any more detail (map is heavy enough as it is).
• As with tabd2map01, I will make a Q3A-(+Gen)-friendly "default" version once the biggest problems are fixed with the alpha. This item layout totally sucks in VQ3, I think. :]
• Clipping has not been done yet. You can still pass through torches, get stuck behind edges, et cetera. Water clipping has been done though, so if you have any difficulty gettting out of the pool, let me know!
  
• I forgot a spectator spawn point. This means that the SP end-game podium is drawn at a deathmatch spawn and consequently looks messed up. Hopefully doesn't mess up anything else for this alpha test.
  
• There's no ambient sound(s) yet. Well, there's a test wind sound which I'll probably keep, but sounds will be worked on some more (should I include another global button sound, like in tabd2map01?).

For those willing to test this map, here's a list of things I'd like to hear about:

• Performance. This map is harder on the hardware than my previous one, averaging about 2k higher in "r_speeds." I did manage to keep the pk3 smaller, though, so texture load is lighter. If you get serious FPS drops in specific locations, let me know.
• Weird texture errors, sparklies (glitter, seams, etc.), lines in the sky (shouldn't be any, this time), z-fighting. I haven't found any myself, so anything you come across may be important. (Exception: I know there are some untextured brush surfaces in the roof of the long hallway. On purpose, once clipping is in place you won't be able to see (through) those anymore.)
• Errors (none in my console).
• Gameplay issues - as pertaining to the architecture/layout and keeping in mind that the layout is still "pure". Ideas for the default version are welcome too!

That's it for now, I guess. Probably forgot something, but we'll see. :]

Very nice looks on this map, havent tested it yet thought but once i get the time for it i will

I haven't done a full testing on it, but one thing is glaringly different from Quake 1.  The walkway down in the water area does not exist at all in the original map, as well as the supporting stonework under the blind end of the walkway.  It was a pure swim down there, and the water was much deeper.  The Thunderbolt was near the pentagram for the sole reason of discharging into the water to take people with you, and if the pentagram was not available, you were taking a huge risk going after the Thunderbolt.  A lot of Q1 maps have the Thunderbolt in the water for the discharge aspect of it.  Why was the walkway added? 

For a Q3-specific standpoint, I can understand that, however I'm looking at everything primarily from a nostalgia standpoint, playing the role of the Q1 "purist" as it were.  If this were not a remake map I wouldn't even bring it up.  I had no idea that Q3 players were such landlubbers. 


From a design standpoint, that is logical, and I have something to add to that below as well.


Cistern isn't the most popular Q1 map from my understanding.  It's like Lava Tomb for Q2.  You love it, or hate it.  What you've done with the map is make it absolutely beautiful, something I did not think was possible with a Q1 map.  From a strict gameplay perspective, backing off from the nostalgia angle a bit, I can understand the desire to make the Lightning Gun more easily accessible and keep the pace up.  In Gen or Q3 it's a lot more useful than in Q1.  The Thunderbolt is actually pretty hard to use in Q1 deathmatch besides diving in and suiciding with it.  I do like map gimicks, like the Frag Pipe, the crusher in Dead Meat, etc, but I can understand overdoing it as well.  Either way, this map makes me want to play it, whereas the first time I played Cistern in Quakeworld I honestly thought it was a community map.  Apparently many servers don't run it.


Is it possible to make a "quick and dirty" "pure" version that simply lacks the walkway and higher water level as you mentioned above?  The Thunderbolt and ammo would obviously have to either be moved back to the invuln spawn or else dropped in the water somewhere.  This would give a baseline to compare a pure vs non-pure geometry.  Let me give it a comparison run.  If it works out with just those minor changes, then the pure version would be "in the bag" after you finalize the clipping, etc.  Once the map geometry is set, just remove walkway, raise water, move a few items, and purist version is done.  At that point, all you'd have to focus on is the item placement for non-pure version with included walkway.

There is the possibility that taking the walkway out and raising the water might suck as well, and not work in a final version.  That's what I want to find out.   


Now for testing so far.  As for bugs, I found a few, and fortunately they're all fairly minor.  Screenshots and buglist are here:

http://www.wireheadstudios.org/phoenix/editing/tabq1dm5_bugs.zip

The only visual gripe I could find that's not a bug is in the water texture shader.  Part of the water surface moves, and part of it does not.  I did not know if that was intentional, but the texture that does not move makes it almost looke like transparent stone.  I think some minor agitation to that texture would help there.

Gameplay I have not tested yet.  The overall look of the map is damned impressive.  I'm not normally one for Gothic because so many people screw it up.  This looks more authentic and, as I said earlier, reminds me of some of the better levels from Unreal.  I'll get back to you on gameplay when I get a chance to properly run through with some bots.

@Pho:
Ok! Good catches, though some things I don't quite understand (duplicate faces above one doorway have no detectable error in the .map).

Don't waste too much time and effort playtesting at this point. I'm currently adding clipping, and the bots will behave differently once they're in place. Many gripes with getting stuck on walls will also be gone once I'm done with that. Finally, any stutter related to bots will be resolved (and the .aas file in the pk3 should be much smaller ).

Alpha1 is actually only an aesthetics/performance test. Once I get the visual bugs out of the way, I'll make that pure version (will take some tinkering though, since I'll have to adjust the pentagram-alcove to fit the higher water level and make room for the thunderbolt. :]

Now, regarding the bugs:

385: Don't know what's going on here.. shouldn't be happening, .map file is in order. If it doesn't show up in normal use, I'll ignore it. Otherwise I don't know what to do about it...

387: No z-fighting on my end, and shouldn't happen. I'll take another look. I think it has to do with the way r_fullbright 1 duplicates all the surfaces..

388: Found and fixed.
390: Found and fixed.
393/4: Found and fixed. Good catch!


@Mink:
I had a run-around in (Fuh)quake, noting the item layout, but I didn't catch those differences. I would like the pure version to be as Quake-like as possible in this respect, so I think I'll try and fix that. Apparently I can't trust my (and the only working) Quake version for that. :/
If someone can double-check this and point out the precise differences, I'd be much obliged.


As for the water, what I was going for, was a combination of ripples and dirt floating on the surface. Making it all realistic is nearly impossible, alas. I had the dirt layout with a more aggressive level of turbulance first, but that looked wrong. I can up it some, but I'm afraid it won't get much better than this. Maybe I should remove that dirt layer altogether.. Not sure yet.

Uh oh. Could it be that the polygonoffset shader keyword is not working properly in Generations? I cannot reproduce the z-fighting in VQ3. Still have to test the map thoroughly in Gens myself! D'oh.

Not so worried about VQ3 play with the pure layout anyway - besides, you get a lot of ammo with the weapon anyway.. :] (The weirdest thing for VQ3 is probably that there are plenty of shotgun shells lying around, but nothing to fire them with )

Gen-testing is good, ofcourse. I just somehow seem to save it for after normal Q3-testing. No good reason other than that I have desktop shortcuts to quickly launch my map, and Generations takes a minute longer to load any map. ;]

Thanks for the update, I'll adapt the layout accordingly.

New alpha:
tabq1dm5_alpha2.zip

Clipping should be in order in this version and bots should behave better. Haven't changed the water section yet, but all the mentioned glitches and layout errors should be fixed (where relevant).

Edit:
Question: I can make the MH/RL-room work so that the door never closes as long as someone is inside it. Does that sound like a good idea (as a camping deterrent)? Alternatively, I thought of setting up an extra button that pumps a couple of grenades into the room (for the non-pure version only, ofcourse). How does either of those ideas sound?

god everything disapered what i wrote cuz i pushed the wrong button so here we go again:

Had a few mins to run around your map, will do an more extensive test later.
First the looks on the map is awsome, very good!
however i just feel its abit too big compared to the original.
I rember when i did play it was ppls actually used the nailgunz on this since it was perfect to shootdown the corridors with it. (dont have quake 1 installed on my laptop so can't compare but will do once i get home)

Pho already said it about the water, im not very sure this bridge fits in but it might be cuz im abit of q1 purist.

And to answear your question: dont do a thing about the MH/RL room it's good as it is, one of the point of this map was to actually "own" the RL/MH room and the suprise to find out someone's camping the room then you get an close vision of a rocket towards your face (not that i like camping but it made the map fun)