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Author Topic: The US and UK vs Libya?  (Read 3744 times)
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Phoenix
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« on: 2011-03-01, 11:20 »

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The Pentagon is deploying naval and air forces around Libya as the US and UK governments consider tougher measures to force Muammer Gaddafi from power, including the possible establishment of a no-fly zone.

“We must not tolerate this regime using military force against its own people,” David Cameron, UK prime minister, said. “In that context I have asked the Ministry of Defence and the Chief of the Defence Staff to work with our allies on plans for a military no-fly zone.”

Hillary Clinton, US secretary of state, at a UN meeting in Geneva, said: “Nothing is off the table so long as the Libyan government continues to threaten and kill Libyans.” She added she had discussed a no-fly zone with other foreign ministers.

She insisted the naval deployments did not signal pending military action, emphasising instead that refugees might need to be rescued at sea amid a worsening humanitarian crisis.

Full article here:
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e588cd5c-4338-11e0-aef2-00144feabdc0.html

What are your thoughts on this?
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« Reply #1 on: 2011-03-01, 16:23 »

I think that resources could be better spent at home, making our government more efficient and our civilization stronger. They may call this action humanitarian, but it sure looks like another display of military power to me. We spend far too much money on various war efforts when there are so many domestic problems that need to be solved... and I don't mean giving bankers Get Out of Jail Free cards. Slipgate - Disappointed
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Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #2 on: 2011-03-01, 22:50 »


What are your thoughts on this?


To sum it all up in simple terms, my thoughts are: *sigh*

In a more lengthy fashion:
Seriously, we didn't even accomplish our goal the last time we went to war (unless you count it randomly shifting to Iraq in the midst of it all, which I don't, and never did if you recall).. and now we're thinking about starting up again already? Whatever.. I digress.

I hate to sound blunt.. but, for now at least.. screw Libya, we have our own problems to deal with.
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« Reply #3 on: 2011-03-02, 09:55 »

I find it all rather puzzling.  Libya is undergoing a civil war.  Libya has not attacked the United States, nor has it attacked the United Kingdom.  There has been no call from the UN for any intervention on the part of either nation.  There has been some talk about opposition forces requesting assistance from the US in ousting Qaddafi, but I really don't see where the US has any business in this, at least, not direct military involvement.  I'm looking at this and wondering if it will end up like Bosnia did, where the US got involved just enough to waste a lot of military assets (in the form of cruise missiles) to little or no effect while a lot of innocent people were killed or worse.  I really hope that does not happen.  If the US supplies logistical support to the rebels, that's a very grey area.  The US armed the mujaheddin in Afghanistan against the Soviets, and that led to the Taliban.  I could see a similar outcome with Libya.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #4 on: 2011-03-03, 20:39 »

Talk about things going weird, look at this:

Quote
"Bring Bush! Make a no fly zone, bomb the planes," shouted soldier-turned-rebel Nasr Ali, referring to a no-fly zone imposed on Iraq in 1991 by then U.S. President George Bush.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20110303/wl_nm/us_libya_protests

That's certainly going to confuse some people.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #5 on: 2011-03-20, 03:04 »

It's begun.

http://abcnews.go.com/International/liby...assault-gadhafi-forces/story?id=13174246
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« Reply #6 on: 2011-04-13, 23:14 »

Make love, not war! Slipgate - Wink but yeah, US should concentrate their efforts trying to fix their economy instead of wasting it on some war effort even thought the cause might be good.
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Woodsman
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« Reply #7 on: 2011-04-20, 14:13 »

 While i agree that this is unlikely to achieve anything meaningful, and as much as i hate to back Obama, i believe it would be a bad move to not support the uprisings going on in the Arab world these days. 

 We in the west love to preach about our high ideals when it comes to human rights, but really the only human rights we really care about are ours.  In America we preach the virtues of freedom, as long as its out freedom were talking about. God knows we couldn't risk spending money ( which we all know damn well is just going to be pissed away anyway ) to support an uprising against a brutal tyranny, which i might mention has been acting against our interests for decades.

 Europe is no better. They talk of peace because and rant against the use of any military force by any western power, but have no problem ignoring genocide in Africa or getting in bed with their own favorite dictators  ( usually the same ones we do).

 So i say good for the west for growing a pair ( of testicles ). Sure were gonna spork it up like we usually do, but at least we did something .
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Woodsman
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« Reply #8 on: 2011-04-20, 14:15 »

and I'm aware we also ignored genocide in Africa. spork us too. We were pussies in the 90s.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #9 on: 2011-04-20, 18:28 »

My concern is about what is going to replace these dictatorships.  The Muslim Brotherhood is the organization that spawned Hezbollah and was where Al Zawahiri came from (Osama's second in command).  They've had their hand in these uprisings, and they are not a peaceful organization at all.  If they are using all this as a cover to make power grabs it's bad news all around.  In addition to that, a lot of these uprisings have had mixed in with them "death to America, death to Israel" sentiments.  I'm all for freedom and individual liberty, but Islam does not have a great track record in these areas and I'm hesitant in putting any hope that liberty is going to blossom as a result of this.  Any positive outcomes in the short term may fall to radicalization in the long run.  The ultimate result may be trading a few selfish tin-pot dictators for a much more radical and dangerous ideologically-driven threat.  That's not a situation that bodes well for anyone.  It's not good for the US, or Israel, or Europe, or Africa, and certainly not for the people that just participated in some rather revolutionary activity.  Trading one oppressor for another is never an improvement.

I'm a bit peeved about the situation in Africa as well.  How much talk has their been about the recent massacres in the Ivory Coast?  Not much air time on those.  Muslim uprisings hit the news, but Christians being massacred in the thousands nobody wants to hear about, or at least, Western media never wants to report it.  Murder is murder, I don't care who's doing the dying.  Sadly, I think the only reason anyone cares about what's going on in Egypt, Libya, etc, is oil.  Rwanda, Darfur, etc, produce nothing of value for the West, so why should anyone care, right?  I hate the media.  Hate hate hate!
  Chainsaw
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« Reply #10 on: 2011-04-21, 00:18 »

Sadly, I think the only reason anyone cares about what's going on in Egypt, Libya, etc, is oil.  Rwanda, Darfur, etc, produce nothing of value for the West, so why should anyone care, right?  I hate the media.
Might just be the cynic in me talking here.. but.. I agree.
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« Reply #11 on: 2011-04-22, 15:45 »

Sadly, I think the only reason anyone cares about what's going on in Egypt, Libya, etc, is oil.  Rwanda, Darfur, etc, produce nothing of value for the West, so why should anyone care, right?

Right. Wars cost money. Something has to make it worth going in. Human life is abundant, oil is not.
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