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Author Topic: Arena BFG Balancing (Please? ;()  (Read 26493 times)
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #40 on: 2003-09-20, 07:11 »

We should have a pre-game tomrorow then? o_O
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Angst
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« Reply #41 on: 2003-09-20, 19:03 »

Heh, guilty on the line of site.. I HATE it when people take off in the middle of combat.. *grumble* instincts *grumble*

Pho gets me on that all the time, he'll take off around a corner, and I'll charge after just in time to catch a rocket. While I'll admit I play the same way, it just doesn't work on the bird because he pays more attention than I do Slipgate - Tongue

Anyhoo, the arena bfg isn't quite the evil nasty gun that everyone claims it is. Providing you've got a couple weapons to work around it with.
Just don't forget that the guy spamming can't see anything coming Slipgate - Tongue

Again, it's the line-of-site playing that gets you killed with that gun.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #42 on: 2003-09-21, 06:02 »

Well, after some in-depth testing with Tekhead and Warhorse, the following results have been gathered:

Against the Q3 BFG, the only weapons that stood a chance were the Doom weapons or a point blank BFG10K jump.  The Doom weapons were still a 7-1 kill at best, and usually not even close to that.  With the Q3 BFG, I was unstoppable against Tek.  Same if we traded places.  I couldn't kill him if he had it, he couldn't kill me if I had it.

In short, anyone who's said so is  correct in that the gun is FAR too powerful in its current state.  This means a change is definitely in order.  Tactics beyond "Get your own BFG" or "Get lucky with the Doom Rocket Launcher" were useless against this thing.

We think we've come up with a viable alternative, that can still fire equally as fast and not lose the feel of the BFG without doing insane spam damage, yet also can have a "unique" effect and do massive damage like the other BFG's.  How is this possible to have both?  I'm not going to give anything away just yet, it's a surprise.  To any who've been privy to the discussion on this, I ask you not give anything away here just yet of what we're planning. Sipgate - Evil
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Kain-Xavier
 

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« Reply #43 on: 2003-09-21, 07:52 »

Damn you Phoenix.  You have put great seeds of thought into my head now.

/me starts thinking about delayed, impact explosions and Shock-Rifle-like combo-ing the delayed, impact explosions for even bigger, delayed, impact explosions.

Oooooh those would be purty...  though not really Q3 like... I really should get back to work now. Slipgate - Smile

Oh and btw, if ever I start to make sense, it was clearly, unintentionally/intentionally intentional/unintentional... ad infinum.  So in other words, don't listen to me because I don't know what the hell I'm talking about but I do know that I don't know what the hell I'm taking about and that's why I don't know what the hell I'm talking about that I do and so on and so forth.

And for further weirdness, I just realized that one emoticon is drinking beer and not eating trash.  I know this now as I just clicked on the emoticon.  Go me  Thumbs up!
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Tabun
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« Reply #44 on: 2003-09-21, 13:07 »

Talkin' bout bfg's, I got kind of disappointed by the 10k in the EU forum game.
For some strange reason my flip-backwards-fire-turn-back-and-run-on strategy didn't work - there were at least 2 peeps standing in a direct LoS with me and the detonation, and rather close up too.. but they either had a --LOT-- of health, or it didn't work as I expected it to Slipgate - Smile
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #45 on: 2003-09-21, 21:41 »

Either a lot of health or a lot of armor.  You have to get the 10K in pretty close to your target to really do the trick.
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Angst
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« Reply #46 on: 2003-09-22, 17:10 »

Hmm, yet another interesting conversaton I've missed... pity..
Lookin forward to see what you've got in mind pho Slipgate - Tongue.

Though have to point out that slippy's RL can do a number on a bfg spammer..
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #47 on: 2003-09-22, 17:59 »

Angst: Pho and I tested that out, and Q3BFG > Q1 RL. The Q3BFG shot is twice as fast and *its rate of fire is* about 4 times faster than the Q1 RL.  Slipgate - Sad
« Last Edit: 2003-09-22, 23:04 by Tekhead » Logged
Angst
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« Reply #48 on: 2003-09-22, 18:38 »

Hmm, There IS the bit about ammo, but since I wasn't there for testing, I couldn't say..
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #49 on: 2003-09-25, 16:05 »

mmm. BFG Tacos.
« Last Edit: 2003-09-25, 16:49 by Tekhead » Logged
ReBoOt
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« Reply #50 on: 2003-09-25, 19:39 »

I don't like  the Q3 BFG tho it's supposed to be THE big bad ass gun, first of all there aint that many BFG spawn points...i don't see a reason to downgrade it....
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ConfusedUs
 

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« Reply #51 on: 2003-09-25, 20:19 »

Ever played in a match with a bad Earther? He drops BFGs left and right.

If I'm gonna bite it, I make SURE I'm not using the dual gats.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #52 on: 2003-09-26, 00:01 »

The problem with the Arena BFG is that once someone has it you CANNOT kill them.  Unless 3 or 4 people gang rape the offending player or you get a lucky shot in it is impossible to stop them.  Boot, if you want to run through the same sort of testing that Tekhead did with me I can demonstrate in person why this thing is so overpowered.  Believe me, I hate messing with anything on the Arena Gladiators, and I've been the most loathe to change anything there unless there's no other way.  

We will probably include a toggle cvar for the "enhanced" BFG vs the stock Q3 BFG so that purists can still run the old gun if they so choose.  Default will be our new version.
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Angst
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« Reply #53 on: 2003-09-26, 01:30 »

/me waits for changes to show up on the beta server Slipgate - Tongue
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Tabun
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« Reply #54 on: 2003-09-26, 01:38 »

pho: while you're working on an update, could you scale the strogg items up a bit? That is, unless you disagree on them being quite smallish :]
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #55 on: 2003-09-26, 06:30 »

Tab:  I scaled them to exact Q2 model size.  I think they look fine myself, but if they need to be scaled up a bit I'd like to wait until I repath the models when I can finally get to the "condensing" stage of this.  I'm in the middle tearing CG_Weapons apart at the moment and re-writing some very complex functions that desperately need rewriting before frames animations can work, and it's going to take a while to finish that.

Angst:  Be patient on those proposed BFG changes.    There's a lot that need doing that has priority at the moment.  I know you're itching to try out new stuff but gruntwork has to come first at the moment.   Slipgate - Tongue
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Tabun
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« Reply #56 on: 2003-09-26, 10:24 »

Roger that. No hurry or anything. Funny that they're the right scale- to my Q2ers eyes they look about 3/4th the size - must be Q3A style + spacier maps + drugs + fov then :]
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #57 on: 2003-09-26, 19:55 »

forgot that the earth guy drops bfgs that can be messy.... well if you feel it's necessary to tweak the q3 bfg go ahead Slipgate - Smile I do want the gameplay to be as balanced as possible, no class should have any advantage over the other.
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Angst
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« Reply #58 on: 2003-09-26, 21:40 »

pho: well aware, good luck with that Slipgate - Tongue

tab: yup, it's the map-size difference. doom-sized maps make for VERY tight deathmatches.
Hmmm....  Sipgate - Evil

anyhoo, as always, let me know if there's some gruntwork that could use delegating, I need something to do Slipgate - Tongue
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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« Reply #59 on: 2003-09-27, 09:41 »

who needs dual gats anyway , gimme a sniper and a mortar and people will run against it themself .
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