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Author Topic: Doom Eternal  (Read 2378 times)
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« Reply #20 on: 2020-03-23, 03:28 »

@Angst:  I haven't gotten far enough to meet an Archvile, but if it's a ragequit-worthy encounter then that kind of challenge I'd just replay the mission with cheat codes to get it.  I missed a secret on the Terrordrome and replayed it with IDDQD active.  I didn't die once, found the secret, and stocked up on extra lives as well.  It was also nice to kick the Doom Hunters' collective asses on UV while feeling pretty invincible.

@Makou:  I've found that the way to stay alive on UV is to DASH YOUR ASS OFF.  Get as much distance from the heavy hitters as you can, then snipe or shotgun bomb their weak points - Mancubus being the primary threat, and Revenants as I'm able.  Slow-mo really helps with that.  Stock up on health, ammo, and armor by doing "drive-by" attacks on the soldiers and zombies, and as you're working a circuit around the battle arena, take out the imps and gargoyles since they like to cheap shot you with fireballs and acid.  Don't kill every zombie immediately either.  Leave a few roaming around for resource grabs.  I tend to use Shotgun and Heavy Cannon when running the perimeter so I don't one-shot the resource zombies, imps, and gargoyles, use the rocket launcher for chasers, and switch to plasma on the heavies.  Pinkies I just SSG in the ass and it's a one-shot kill.  They're not even a threat so far.

Whittle down the Arachnotrons and Mancubus while keeping a respectable distance and use cover and height against them.  This is where the "destructable demons" feature really helps.  You can tell which ones are the most beat up and concentrate your attacks on which one you want to pop first.  Once one goes into stagger, grapple over to it, roast and glory kill, then GTFO.  The snakes, Hell Knights, and Stalkers are on my "kill it first" list since they chase and teleport in the case of Stalkers.  I tend to freeze them and rocket or SSG to finish.  I also save those "bowling ball" guys to knock into snakes and Mancubus as much as possible.

Also, do not forget about the Blood Punch!  If you get pinned it sends the demons flying and gives you a way out.  It pulps the smaller ones and does massive damage to the bigger ones.

One other thing not directly related to combat but certainly helps... Not to make anyone feel newbish but did you set your FOV to something other than 90?  That's where it defaults, which would be fine on a CRT, but if you're on a widescreen (and who isn't now) then make sure it's not sitting at default.  I use 105 which is the equivalent of 90 scaled to 16:9.  It gives me enough side view without the high FOV distortion or rendering too much to drop my framerate.  If you're getting pegged a lot by stuff you can't see you might tweak the FOV a bit.
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« Reply #21 on: 2020-03-23, 15:05 »

My reflexes might not be what they used to be these days. As I said, the second stage was kicking my ass on UV so I toned it down to HMP and was still struggling through the rest of it.. and Cultist Base after.
Speaking of Cultist Base.. that one was a pain even on HMP. The 'combat arenas' felt overly claustrophobic.. which wasn't fun when they were tossing Hell Knights, Revenants, Arachnotrons, and Mancubus at you all at the same time. I think a Whiplash or two as well. ..and that's not counting the Soldiers, Imps, and zombies.

And I know exactly what secret encounter you're talking about.. because it took me like 5 tries to do it... on HMP. I think I even lost a life or two there because that TINY area gets crammed quick. My ammo count wasn't fairing well either after like the second attempt. I decided to finish the stage and then fast traveled back to it to see if I could 'grind it out'.

That said.. the stage after that was a lot easier. The Doom Hunter Base or something. I only died once there, and it was because of an error on my part.. but I did get dropped pretty low a few times, so I'm not sure how it would have went on UV.
The platforming was getting a bit more annoying though.. with those falling coffin-like structures you have to cling to while scanning around for where to jump next. It became easier after getting the auto map, but before that... I felt kinda cheated once or twice.

I wasn't using my grenades nearly enough until I rebound it to something I'm more familiar with. Left ctrl or Mouse3 was alien to me.. so I switched it to Q, which was something I used for grenades back in my QWTF days. And go figure I used them more in the Doom Hunter Base. Swapping them, however.. I still have bound to the default G.. which is.. kind of ugly.. and as such, I often don't think to swap when one of them is on cooldown.

I sticky bomb weak points when I can with the aid of slo-mo.. since I don't have the sniper upgrade for the heavy cannon. Although, I kind of ignore the Revenant weak points.. he seems like a bit of a non-issue compaed to other demons, oddly enough. After knocking them off, I switch to micro-missiles, plasma, lock-on rockets, or full-auto shotgun.. though it's usually all four. If I find myself with 3 notches of chainsaw fuel, I'll take out a heavy regardless if I need ammo or not right at the start of a fight. 1 notch will recharge in the interim, which is enough for the fodder to restock ammo.
For plasma, I started with the microwave beam.. but I'm finding myself using the heat blast recently and liking it more.

Pinkies.. total non-issue. I forget where I read it in-game, but Blood Punch is an insta-kill on them, even from the front, so I've just been doing that instead of doing the whole 'ole' routine.
However, I think the next stage has a challenge to glory kill them 3 different ways.. so I'll have to temporarily depart from that strategy.

As for FOV.. yea, I'm on 90. It's weird, but I don't even consider I'm on widescreen. I'm just so used to it being '90' from the old days that seeing that number has me thinking it's correct, even when it's not.

EDIT: Honestly, what bugs me the most so far in the game isn't even the platforming (so far). It's the floating, neon weapons and keys. In 2016, they were more creative with those.. ripping them off corpses and such, or in the case of keys.. sometimes you took whole arms or torsos. Here in Eternal, the weapons and keys look fresh out of Q3 in how they float there and spin with a neon glow around them.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-23, 16:27 by Thomas Mink » Logged

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« Reply #22 on: 2020-03-23, 23:36 »

The Neon Green is Quake Champions influence.  I do hate that as well.  I also hate it in Champions.  I know what a freaking gun looks like, but when you paint them ALL neon green it's hard to tell WHAT gun I'm looking at!
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« Reply #23 on: 2020-03-24, 01:43 »

Answering the important questions: DooM plays DooM. I am happies.  Doom - Love
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« Reply #24 on: 2020-03-25, 00:48 »

So we've been focusing on the gripes a bit, so I thought I'd post some things I really like about Eternal:

Visuals are stunning.  Environments, monsters... it all looks fantastic.  They got the Hell look better this time so far - lava pools, more red, more color overall instead of being the same grey stone with yellow sky everywhere (Looking at you, Kadingir Sanctum).  I have no complaints in that department, though it does come with a cost - I had to drop resolution and reduce some features to keep the FPS up where I want it, even on a GTX 980.

The weapons work so far, and they feel beefy enough for doing damage.  I have the classic sound pack enabled and it's retro goodness.  I'll do another play through with regular sounds.

Fast Travel feature on the maps - I love it.  Miss one secret?  Go back instead of having to replay the entire mission.  I am glad you can replay missions with the "cheat code" options to farm extra lives and get a better feel for the enemies on a given level, and the Ripatorium is a nice feature for getting some combat practice in without risking anything in the campaign.

Destructible demons - I've been wanting to see this kind of damage feedback on enemies again since Quake 2's damage skins on the Strogg.  Knowing how much you've damage an enemy really helps you control the fight.

Classic monster looks - The soldiers and mancubus feel more DOOM to me than they did in 2016.  Haven't run into the Pain Elemental or Archvile yet, but in the menus they look fantastic.

Zombies don't sound so incredibly loud like they did in 2016.

I love the blood punch.  I'm hoping there's a full berserk powerup later on as I've not seen one yet, just Quad and Haste, but the blood punch is nice.

The Fortress of Doom.  Techno-gothic space station for a secret lair?  Sure beats the hell out of a basement in a hotel.  Slayer's workshop is epic hall of Easter eggs.

Falling isn't insta-death.

Setting things on fire.  Phoenix will always like this.

Demonic Slayer Skin - I don't love it because it's evil.  I love it because it's fire.

Those are just a few things I'm really happy with so far.
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« Reply #25 on: 2020-03-25, 14:04 »

Haven't had the time to play the last few days, so my progress is still only at four stages complete.. and the one day I did have time, I opted to finish SS3:BFE instead because I was right at the end and put it off for like a month and a half. I'd have rather played Eternal, but I'm glad SS3 is over now.

Anyway.. the environments are gorgeous. The variation is also nice. In 2016 it was all tech bases on Mars and a few trips to Hell. Monsters are equally fantastic. Mancubus doesn't bother me as much in his classic style on my own PC as it did seeing him in videos.
My settings are all amped up as high as they can go except for... texture pool size, which is at Nightmare instead of UN. Not bad for a PC I bought like 5 years ago at this point. Only thing I upgraded on it was the video card, which is a GTX 1060. Haven't turned on the FPS counter to see what I get, but I haven't noticed any slowdown at all when playing. My monitor limits me to 1080p.. but whatever. Good enough for me.

The weapons all feel great... but honestly, I think the shotgun sound in 2016 was better than this new one. The full-auto mod is insane, but countered by the lack of ammo.. which I guess is understandable. Thing is though, despite having it for over a stage now.. I think I only used the SSG twice so far. And yea, I know that's probably not optimal with some sort of 'alpha rotation' or whatever that speedrunners used in 2016.. but the full-auto mod is fun for me.

Blood punch is great when I remember to use it.

Fast travel is truly fantastic for anal completionists like myself. ...however, it's also the same reason I haven't used the feature to replay a mission, cheat codes or not.
Ripatorium is interesting to just waste some time fighting monsters with no risk.. but it also works for helping to grind out a weapon mod. I noticed the mastery for micro-missiles got a few ticks the last time I was in the Ripatorium. Sadly, no Arachnotrons were there so I didn't get any for the sticky bombs.

I'm using the classic brown marine skin. I said in an earlier post they wanted you to buy games you already own, and not on Steam, to get classic variants saying it was a pita. Kinda forgot I already had a bethesda.net account for the SlayersClub.. and in early March all the old Doom games were on a dirt cheap sale pretty much across the entire internet, so I plunked down a dollar fifty for Doom2 from the bethesda store and got the brown marine. Had to load it up once through the bethesda launcher to link it, but after that everything was uninstalled/deleted. Eh.. feels worth it to me when a cutscene happens.. and when I look at the main menu.

That said.. I also like the cutscenes. For as much as 2016 liked to pretend it didn't push its story on you, you got locked in an area twice and couldn't do anything but listen to Samuel Hayden go on and on and on. The second of which was probably 5 minutes or more in his office. So far, there hasn't been any of that in Eternal.. and all of the cutscenes that did happen have been skippable for those who don't want to see them.

Opposite Pho.. the ice bomb is more my thing, and I've been spending points on that to improve it instead of the normal grenades. Always loved the classical element of water type stuff.. including ice.
« Last Edit: 2020-03-25, 14:12 by Thomas Mink » Logged

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« Reply #26 on: 2020-03-25, 23:17 »

Oh I do use the Ice Bomb a lot.  It's certainly not my element, but it does what the Plasma Rifle's Stun Bomb in 2016 did and since these are demons I don't feel the least bit dirty for doing so.  I primarily use it to paralyze the Whiplash demons and then rain rockets on them.  Doom - Thumbs Up!
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« Reply #27 on: 2020-03-26, 14:06 »

Well right.. likewise, I use the flamethrower a lot too. Kinda have to for armor. But it's not the same level of joy as freezing a group of enemies solid with a well placed ice bomb.
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« Reply #28 on: 2020-03-26, 16:11 »

Fire, punch, plasma, punch, punch, chainsaw, shotgun

I have found the berzerk once.. ONCE.. It was glorious.
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« Reply #29 on: 2020-03-27, 05:22 »

I found it once too - AFTER I killed all the big demons in the fight zone.  I ended up berserking on a bunch of mooks.  Banging Head against Wall

Minor rant follows.

Spoiler (click to show/hide)
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« Reply #30 on: 2020-03-30, 04:06 »

So I decided to start over completely and stick to UV difficulty. Honestly, things went a lot smoother than I thought they would through those first four stages I had previously already completed. I even got that cramped secret encounter in Cultist Base on the first try somehow.. and without dying.

The Super Gore Nest, though... those secret encounters were a thing. The first one, ok.. but that one over and in the acid.. yo, that wasn't right. First time I had to skip an encounter entirely.
Anyway, gave me an excuse to go back and make use of the mission select at the ol' home base. Turned all the cheats on and re-entered for those secret encounters, some exploration bits I missed because I didn't notice the fast travel prompt, and the 3 glory kills on pinkies. And I gotta say.. blasting through with cheats is a lot more fun than it has any right to be. ..and I still didn't get the 3 glory kill pinkies because the silver bullet cheat ended up killing them when they got staggered thanks to my heavy trigger finger.
In my first run without the cheats, I dunno what happened.. they were just kinda dying. I know I blood punched one of them before remembering I needed to glory kill them. I got 2 in the slayer gate, which counted, but the others were just dying instead of staggering. Probably because I was thinking the single shotgun would be fine.. and it was just killing them. Did the heavy cannon thing when I went back with cheats, hence the heavy trigger finger.
I could just skip it and continue on, but it bugs me. ...Gonna have to try again with that silver bullet cheat turned off.
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« Reply #31 on: 2020-03-31, 02:38 »

I think it was a great game over all, i have a few gripes that i can easily live with but i just want to say for everyone, because i know we all feel this way its just the rest of your are too kind to say it, but the people responsible for the awful platforming need to have their dicks cut off and fed to them.
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« Reply #32 on: 2020-03-31, 04:14 »

Yeah... I don't mind platforming where platforming makes sense - like the broken up space station around Mars, but movement mechanics should enhance gameplay, not just funnel you into a path.  Oh, conveniently placed grab wall - because there's no other way to go.  Swing bar here - because there's no other way to go.  Punch this brick... because it's the only way up.  It's the same gripe I had with Portal 2.  Portal was about solving puzzles.  Portal 2 was "find the one spot I can stick a portal on to move forward".  Doom '16 was about killing demons with guns.  Doom Eternal feels like...  well see next paragraph.

That's what I loved about older games.  It was simpler, but you had more freedom.  You need red key card to open this door.  Go find the damned thing yourself.  We don't care what you do along the way, but here's some monsters and items and guns and figure it out.  Doom '16 was largely the same way.  Sure, the battles took place in locked arenas, but you fought how you wanted with what you wanted.  Eternal feels like they want you to fight a specific way with specific guns against specific monsters, especially on the harder difficulties.  Yeah it's great I can lob a bomb into a caco's mouth to stagger it, but if I DON'T do that I'll run out of freaking ammo trying to kill it any other way, so yeah, lemme stop and switch guns in the middle of fighting this Whiplash, Hell Knight, and Marauder JUST to lob a bomb into Mr. Caco's maw so I don't get my face eaten while I'm being pummeled by the other 3 demons that are trying to swarm me.  Oh great, I left it on the Auto Shotgun so lemme switch weapon mods... well, there goes an extra life...  I really need some shotgun shells to use the SSG on Mr. Marauder since he's a cheap ass bitch... Oh, I can use the Ballista!  SPORK, I'm out of cells too?  WTF, no zombies around, no ammo boxes, and I got ONE gas can and HOW THE HELL DO I GET AMMO WITH ONLY MAJOR DEMONS?!?  Great, there goes ANOTHER extra life...  etc.

So yeah, there's some definite rantable stuff in an otherwise good game.  As for cutting off dicks... well, you'll be able to rip them off people in Succubus when it releases.  I'll just imagine the victims as the devs that came up with the platforming sections for you during those scenes.  Slipgate - Wink
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« Reply #33 on: 2020-04-01, 17:27 »

I felt like the way they limited the ammo was a cheap way to pad the difficulty, i get that they didn't want people to just use the same few weapons over and over, and that worked but there were a few times where i died because i ran out of ammo and there were no chainsawable enemies to replenish it. Thats just shitty design.
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« Reply #34 on: 2020-04-02, 02:50 »

Classic Doom and even 2016 absolutely let you run out of ammo, but generally speaking if that happens it's probably your fault in some way. In Eternal, it's because you didn't stick to the combat loop and tried to kill a Caco with the heavy cannon instead of immediately going the sticky bomb -> glory kill route and forgot to leave a zombie around for your one regenerating chainsaw charge.

I still haven't had nearly as much time with the game as I'd have liked, but I'm honestly at a point where I almost want to sit out for a bit and see if they make adjustments to the campaign. My choices at the moment feel like drop the difficulty -- I'm already on HMP because I try to play everything on "normal" on my first playthrough -- or be frustrated for however many hours it takes to figure out the puzzle that is seemingly every locked room in the game.

I've seen people praising Eternal's combat because "it's like old Doom because it gives me a reason to use all of the weapons." Old Doom gives you the choice, because outside of the pistol and closed areas restricting the rocket launcher, at no point in old Doom is any single weapon completely inviable; maybe not optimal, but if you absolutely have to you can get out room of Pinkies or handle a pair of Mancubi with the single shotgun. Eternal gives you the Heavy Cannon and then immediately tells you Arachnotrons and Cacodemons take too many hits and try to dodge too much for you to use it effectively.

The game does so many things right for me... except for the combat. And in an FPS, even if it says "Id Software" on the box, that's a dealbreaker. I am not a fan right now.
« Last Edit: 2020-04-02, 02:54 by Makou » Logged
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« Reply #35 on: 2020-04-02, 06:15 »

Upgrading the ammo in your suit helps a lot, but it takes a while to do it, and you still max out at 22 shells.  I have everything set to help ammo count - barrel pinatas, auto-shotgun mastered, and it's still too easy to run out of shotgun shells.

The thing about old Doom was if you ran out of ammo you could still fight with your fists, or the chainsaw, and the chainsaw was damned effective on zombies, imps, pinkies, specters, lost souls, and cacos.  The only enemies to avoid were Barons or bosses.  I won't discuss the Doom 2 monsters for brevity, but suffice it to say you could still fight.  Even in 2016 you could fall back on the pistol.  Eternal flat out curb stomps you if you're out of ammo and nobody to chainsaw.  You can't use your fist effectively without a Blood Punch (try beating up a zombie sometime).  So yeah, running out of ammo sucks.  Grenades are still there, but odds are if you're in a fight where your bullets are gone you're already on the cooldown timer.  I know resource management is a thing, but it's awfully tight, especially on UV.  I'm not even going to attempt Nightmare.  I like a challenge, but I'm not masochistic.

Once I finish the main campaign I'm going to run through the missions again on Easy mode and cheat codes for infinite ammo, and just unleash pain and fury.  I think that will be rewarding.
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« Reply #36 on: 2020-04-02, 14:09 »

I actually managed to forget that the pistol was a thing in 2016, and now that you've brought it up I realize just how many minor enemies I killed with it to conserve ammo instead of switching to a lesser weapon that uses the same ammo that a power weapon does.

It would take absolutely forever but if a fallback weapon existed, at least you could in theory play keepaway and plink at stronger monsters to eventually kill them. If the punishment for "poor resource management" is a fight taking forever, I'd take that over it being outright impossible any day. If the monsters can't catch me, then rewarding me for that, even if it's slow, is plenty valid.

And this might actually be a thing thing that they change. The pistol is in the game's code as a finished weapon, and can be accessed using something like cheatengine. They removed it only because someone decided it didn't fit the combat loop... which is kind of telling, now that we know what the combat loop is.
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« Reply #37 on: 2020-04-02, 19:33 »

I've always felt that with the exception of classic doom games the weapons in ID shooters were poorly balanced particularly in the quake games. I played so many matches where people just used rocket launchers because of the ease of use while other weapons that were good but had a high skill requirement were more or less ignored.  I've been playing some of the original Unreal in the last month or so and i was amazed by how well balanced the weapons were, none of them were worthless and i never felt disadvantaged by having to use any of them, in classic UT multiplayer i never felt like i had to run in fear from any particular weapon. I thinking limiting the ammo in doom eternal was a mistake because the weapon balance was good enough that all the weapons were useful, you didn't actually have to force anyone to use them. I think anyone whos played a generations game with a slipgate rocket whore knows what I'm talking about. ( thats not a dig on the mod, i know thats how it worked in quake I )
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« Reply #38 on: 2020-04-02, 23:51 »

The formula for winning any Quakeworld game is "Camp the RL and Red Armor".  The Dark Zone is notorious for that setup since the RL and Red Armor are in the same room and whoever spawns there at the map start is guaranteed a huge advantage with 200 armor.  With the armor pickup cut in half in Gen it kind of mitigates that a bit since you can counter by grabbing the Megahealth.

Quake 2 did a much better job of balancing the weapons over Quake 1 and Doom, but looking back at UT... I do have to agree on balance.  The only weapon I thought was overpowered was the Flak Gun, but that also depended on the map a bit.  I tended to go for some of the lesser favored weapons like the Ripper and the Bio Rifle where most people I played against favored the Rocket Launcher, Shock Rifle, and Flak Gun.  I'd dual wield pistols whenever I could as well.  People underestimated that gun a lot.  I'd grab the Sniper Rifle as well even if I lagged too much to really hit with it.  Good times either way.
  Doom - Thumbs Up!
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« Reply #39 on: 2020-04-05, 03:44 »

Came across some issues with cheats and using mission select. I redid Super Gore Nest to do those secret encounters and had cheats enabled, right? When I went to the next mission, Arc Complex, I didn't think anything of it because I was progressing as normal and not redoing the mission... however, because I still had cheats turned on in the mission select hub the key for the slayer gate did not show up in my first run of the stage. I looked around for at least half an hour or so for the stupid key before giving in and looking it up online. I KNEW it had to be in that otherwise pointless area with seemingly nothing in it, and it should have been.. but wasn't.
So I had to redo part of the stage with cheats turned off to get the slayer gate. Annoying that it wasn't there the first time.

Then I went in again with all the cheats turned on to do a secret encounter. I had all the cheats on, including the weapon cheat I essentially collected in that very stage earlier. Figured I'd make use of the mobile turret for the chaingun since it was already mastered via the cheat and also had infinite ammo going. Finished and went back to the hub area... oddly still had the mobile turret mod equipped on the weapon. Instead of testing to see if it worked, I swapped back to the shield mod I actually owned... ...however, it kind of broke. Using alt-fire with the shield mod equipped did not produce a shield and instead acted like it wanted to use the mobile turret, which I don't think it did and just fired normally. Found that out when I paid a visit to the ripatorium.
Used some batteries to get myself the mobile turret mod and it fixed itself when I swapped mods a few times.. but yea..
« Last Edit: 2020-04-05, 03:47 by Thomas Mink » Logged

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