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General Discussion => Controversy Corner => Topic started by: Phoenix on 2008-06-27, 01:23



Title: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: Phoenix on 2008-06-27, 01:23
Quote
WASHINGTON (AP) - Silent on central questions of gun control for two centuries, the Supreme Court found its voice Thursday in a decision affirming the right to have guns for self-defense in the home and addressing a constitutional riddle almost as old as the republic over what it means to say the people may keep and bear arms.

The court's 5-4 ruling struck down the District of Columbia's ban on handguns and imperiled similar prohibitions in other cities, Chicago and San Francisco among them. Federal gun restrictions, however, were expected to remain largely intact.
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20080626/D91I1FAO0.html

Glad to see they finally made up their minds on this.  :doom_thumb:


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: Kajet on 2008-06-27, 04:39
Yeah it's only been slightly more than what... two centuries?


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: ReBoOt on 2008-06-27, 07:14
Hehe everytime i see something about americans and guns its like its some democratic right to have them :)

Question thought, you need to take a "license" for using these guns?
Only thing a normal person outside the military can get in sweden is hunting rifles and for that you need to take quite a few lessons and doing exams to get your license.


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: Phoenix on 2008-06-27, 17:36
In America, it is a right.  The US Constitution has 10 amendments called the "Bill of Rights".  The First Amendment prevents the establishment of a state religion and guarantees free exercise of religion, freedom of speech, of the press, of assembly, and of petitioning the government for redress of grievence.  The Second Amendment guarantees that the people have a right to own and bear arms.  There has been an argument over the last few decades about the exact meaning of the text as to whether it conferred an individual right to every citizen, or if it was a "collective" right passed on to members of state-run militias (eg, the US Army or National Guard, or something like that).  Those opposed to private firearms ownership have argued the collective rights position, those who agree with the views prevalent with the drafters of the US Constitution (it's documented, see The Federalist Papers, etc) have argued that it is an individual right.  So yes, it is a democratic right to own a firearm in the United States.  The US Supreme Court merely affirmed this with its decision.

As for licensing, typically no, but it varies from state to state and city to city.  For example, up until this decision, in Washington, DC, you could not own a handgun, but you could own long guns such as rifles and shotguns, with the condition that they be disassembled and in an otherwise inoperable mode.  Some cities require residents to register guns with the city government.  Most do not.  Many places you can own a semi-automatic rifle patterned after a military rifle like the AK-47 or M-16.  No license nor registration is required, just a criminal and mental health background check and some minor paperwork.  Convicted felons and people with a history of severe mental disorders are not permitted to own firearms.

What complicates firearm ownership in the US is that there are several sets of laws to deal with.  There are federal laws, which apply to the whole country.  Then there are state laws, which apply to the individual state only.  Next are county laws, and finally city or township laws.  It may be legal to own a semi-auto AK-style rifle in one state, but in a specific city within that state it may be illegal, and then the next state over may not allow them at all.  So a lot of it depends on geography and the local political atmosphere.  As a general rule, rural areas are typically more permissive about what you can own, and big cities more restrictive.

An example of what you cannot own anywhere is an unregistered machinegun or other fully-automatic weapon, a shotgun with a barrel less than 16 inches in length, explosives, or silencers.  Those all require special licensing and there are severe restrictions on them.  Some civilians do have legal machinegun licenses and own fully-automatic weapons.  There's an annual machinegun shoot in Kentucky every year where these people get together and raise six kinds of hell for the fun of it.

The other thing that requires a license is to carry a concealed handgun on your person.  Not every state allows this.  Most do, but you have to pass an instruction course and apply for a permit.  I believe in Vermont you can carry a concealed weapon without any permit.  There are still limitations on this.  For example, most states do not allow you to carry a concealed weapon inside or near schools, government buildings, shopping malls, etc.  Many businesses also do not permit the carrying of concealed weapons inside their buildings.


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: ~Va^^pyrA~ on 2008-06-27, 22:21
Around here, we just go down to the local flea market and buy all of the guns we want. No background check or registration! :)


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: Lopson on 2008-06-28, 11:20
Around here, we just go down to the local flea market and buy all of the guns we want. No background check or registration! :)
Good'old America!
So it's finally over, eh? Quite frankly, I was expecting this exact answer. Can you imagine the loss it would've been for weapon manufacturers if the Supreme Court were to prohibit people from owning guns?


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: Tabun on 2008-06-28, 12:18
My guess would be that weapons manufacturers get most of their income from government deals..


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: Phoenix on 2008-06-28, 17:56
Depends on the weapons manufacturer, but police depend on the manufacturers too.  Usually only one manufacturer will benefit from a government contract, such as Colt for the M-16 and M-4 rifles, or Beretta for the M-9 pistol, so the majority of most gun sales depend on civilian purchases.

~Va^^pyrA~:  That is one thing I neglected to mention is that a private transfer from one individual to another is legal without a background check, at least, at the Federal level.  Background checks are required if the transfer is from an FFL dealer to a civilian as a business sale, but not between one civilian and another.  So as long as it's a private individual selling to another private individual at the flea market that's permissible.  I think gun shows don't require background checks as long as it's a non-FFL sale as well, but I'm a bit grey on that.


Title: Re: Second Amendment Decision by US Supreme Court
Post by: Vorlonesque on 2008-06-29, 00:21
I'm thinking another company now builds the M4s and M16s instead of Colt for the gov...but I could be wrong (I was thinking I read a few years back that FN builds them now...though I don't so much have a problem with FN since as someone said on SA...you can almost imagine the ghost of John Moses Browning there nudging things along (FN was pretty much "his" company in that he worked for them for a big chunk of his life and designed the Hi-Power for them (one of the best 9mm pistols around...and interestingly enough...Browning had a round in mind for it that didn't get used that was very very similar to the 40S&W)).

Oddly enough I'm posting this at a firing range where I just shot 50 through each of my pistols (9mm Beretta 92FS, 40S&W Beretta 96FS, 45ACP Rock Island Armory 1911 (with some modifications I had made to it)) and about 30 rounds through my rifle (a bullpup conversion of the AK47 with an Egyptian Maadi reciever/barrel/etc (its semi-automatic...one trigger pull for one shot...I always get that question when I tell people about it or they see it...I don't have 20,000+ dollars or the willingness to wait a year and go through fingerprinting, background checks, and other red tape to get an AK in full-auto...and full auto is really not all that useful in most cases)).

Edit: Oh I forgot that I put around 50 rounds through my Browning Buckmaster .22 pistol as well.