Wirehead Studios

man..this is fscking rediculous now..they might as well just take all our rights and make the damn U.S. a communist one. land of the free..more like land of indian givers..give rights..and take em. are these measures REALLY necessary? man..and we cant do SHIT about it.. :321:

Honestly Omega, I find your comparison to Communism to be quite short sighted. Not to mention the offensive nature of the term "Indian Giver". Though it does have a simultaneous hint of humor when one takes into account the irony of Caucasians saying such in general...

Agreed, but what can you expect, dev? People in this country are brainwashed from childhood to hate Native Americans, through such culturaly accepted phrases, the entertainment industry, etc. Even though the number of Cowboy vs Indian movies being put out has certainly dwindled in this era, the damage is already done. That's what makes discrimination against this country's native people so effective, so very few people realize they're even doing so, because unlike blacks, or, excuse me, African Americans, they're not told that's it's bad, and that their equal no matter what color their skin is, but that they should continue to commit hate crimes anyway, but simply pretend to be appalled by such.

Besides popular-usage, "politically-correct" terminology can be just as discriminating.  Think about the term "Native American" for a moment...  Why would a group of people want to be named after those who slaughtered their brethren?

*Snip* Please see Apocrypha's post below for a link explaining the origin of the word "Indians" and how Columbus derived the term when he named the people indigenous to the land we now call America.

I have a similar beef with the term "African American."  I would not want to be named after a group of people who helped to enslave my ancestors.  Nor would I want to be referred to as "African" if I was not born in Africa.  Of course, I don't think the term "black" is any better as most "black" people are not black in color.  I honestly do not understand why humans insist on classifying things so much, but I digress...

In Canada they call them First Nations People, effectively removing that American connotation

Oh and also, Caucasian is nomenclature problem also. Since TONS of "caucasians" really have nothing to do with the people who came from the mountains. Although it is an accurate descriptor of my ethnicity

I was not stating that I dislike the title Indian, but the term ?Indian Giver?. I personally have never found offense in Indian, but at the same time I do not like to use it because currently there is a country named India, and having two very distinct people with very different customs, who come from opposite sides of the planet given the same name is quite confusing. The same problem occurs with American Indian. It?s still a much more catchy title than Native America, but yet again, breeds confusion. What names existed then have very little influence now anyway. If we were to find extra terrestrial beings on Mars today, we?d call them Martians, not Ares?eh? ians :P

With that said, I made a comment because I despise the level of brainwashing that has gone into American culture to make them inexplicitly hate my ilk (well, half of my ilk, since the other half are Welsh). If anything, a term such as Whiteman Giver, or Christian Giver would be far more appropriate. Without getting into the legalities that my mind has worked up for such, I will simply say that Apocrypha has the right idea ;)

offensive nature? how can you insult your own kind? i was using them all in a metaphor..not in literal terms i just didnt feel like typing out my whole thought, which is people established this country saying all are created equal, but in the past, you see that that's nothing more than a promise that is broken, not necessarily the people who established it, but society itself. basically giving and taking freedom and rights like warrents. but what makes your comment about 'caucasians' no more bias than mine?  :ninja: my arguement is..WHY THE HELL is all this crap changing to someone's own benifit..cuz of the infamous 'war on terror'?! thats stupid! manipulate the laws to persue something like that!? stopping terror is like asking for world peace..and unrealistic vision IMO..how can you ask for world peace, when the common household siblings cant even get along? stopping 'terrorists' is the same thing..we'll never be able to stop all the bad choices people make..so why is this happening?!  :shout:

I have to say i have NEVER know ANYONE who hated native americans so lets not pretend its the greatest issue facing the world today. I lived for several years near a reservation and while i know people who dislikes blacks whites and mexicans i didnt really know anyone who had a particualr beef with native americans. Really those old john wayne movies only had so much impact. its time to move on.
 The term native american is used because the continent is called north AMERICA it has nothing at all to do with the fact that people from the united states are called americans as well.  Secondly they were pretty used to  the slaughtering of their brethren as they lived in a constant state of tribal warfare.

oh and india was called Hindustan in 1492.

http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadA...le.asp?ID=11380 (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=11380)

Wow, thanks for clearing that up for me Apocrypha. :thumb:

I hope you didn't take my earlier post as an attack upon you.  It wasn't intended as such.  I was just interested by Dev/Null's post and your own and wished to post some of my own thoughts on the matter.

You are quite welcome, and no I did not take it as such, after all that's what conversations are for, the free flowing exchange of ideas, thoughts and concepts, etc, from one person to another. I feel the same way you do about the terms "African American" and "Black" as well, though I have many friends who are of said race and some preffer one, some like the other, I think we're stepping on egg-shells no matter what we chose in any case, unfortunately.

Thank you woods for pointing that out, im begining to wonder where half this info is being gotten from, seriously this statement below makes 0 sense.


I would like to see some serious validation of the above statement, considering the state I live in and the people I have known, that statement comes out looking entirely weak as if seeking an argument with little facts.

it was a valid argument 50 years ago

Oh yeah, I forgot, Thanksgiving and Christopher Columbus Day was abolished fifty years ago in favor of something celebrating the great deeds of persons such as Crazyhorse, Sitting Bull, Red Cloud, etc.

so what part of that includes kids being taught to hate native americans? and you know there is a giant statue of crazy horse being built not far from mount rushmore.

 Columbus day will only be abolished in the pipe dreams of bitter leftists because like it or not he is in part responsible for the eurpean settlement of north america. (im not here to argue if that was bad or not so dont even start) secondly Italians americans have kind of latched on to it as thier own holiday.

I don?t consider myself to be a Leftist at all, so that demolishes whatever delusional point you may have had. Bitter I am though, and you?d be too if the country you lived in celebrated a man who took part in the wholesale slaughter of your ancestors. It?s not far off from Germany having a Hitler Day because he put so much forth towards the economy and work force in that country. The only difference being that Hitler was far less of a murderer.

It?s great though that the Italians want a holiday, just like the Irish and countless other ancestral heritages. They get them too, but the people who were originally here get nothing. Nope, instead we must tolerate these hate parades. There is an extreme religious and cultural bias in this country, and it only becomes even more apparent when looking at holidays which are mapped out on the calendar.

The monument in South Dakota, however, is not of Crazyhorse per say, as no one has an idea of his true appearance. It is a symbol of his message; the spirit of the Sioux and Native Americans everywhere. It goes on without government funding, which is appropriate I believe, as we do not need handouts from such social cannibals. I?m pleased you brought up Mouth Rushmore though, as that alone serves as a giant insult towards my ilk as a whole; being the destruction of Mother Earth in favor of four trite dictators, especially in the Black Hills, an area which has always been held as being highly sacred to the Sioux. What you?ve been conditioned to see as a symbol of patriotic pride, is in reality nothing more than a homage to genocide.

please what a load of whiney crap. That would be like me being pissed at the brittish because of what Edward the first (and of course the list goes on) did to Scotland. Yet i see no mention in your posts of the brutal warfare that took place between the tribes of the americas. Lets not pretend here that its genocide your offended by because native american culture was very farmiliar with it long before the europeans showed up.  One of my good friends is native american ( he hosts a lan every month) but he dont spend every columbus day complaining pining for a long dead culture and trying to make the rest of us feel bad about somthing we werent there for and had nothing to do with. You dont have anymore right to live here than anyone else because your ancestors were here before mine.

Hehe, and don't forget where those ancestor have their roots in the first place... :]

???

Why?  Out of all the holidays America has, why Columbus Day?  Who even celebrates this holiday outside of elementary school any more?

I don't think I would call it a long dead culture, either, as there are many members still alive and practicing their cultural traditions.  While I don't feel any guilt about it, I can acknowledge that the settling of America was an invasion.  There was the room here for white settlers and the many nations of "Native Americans" to live together, but when you force a people out of their very homes to take their land, it's wrong.  Like I said, it was long ago and not my fault at all, but you could take a moment to reflect on what happened.  To many of the indiginous people, we are still an occupying force (that also happens to dig up their ancestors and charge admission for people to come and disrespect them - one of the reasons I am going to be cremated.  Ain't no one digging me up in 100 years after I'm dead and sticking me in a museum for people to point.)

Our tribes were hardly familiar with genocide before the Europeans invaded. Genocide is the process of systematically slaughtering a group. Simple warfare does not breed such ultimatums in the least bit. I don?t see why this is even relevant at all, as I wasn?t attempting to convey the point that Native Americans were or are currently a completely peaceful and passive race. We are, without a doubt, such for the majority though, but as all others there is blood on our hands as well. It?s that kindness and belief in false, white, propositions that led to our downfall. Settlers had enough trouble as it was with the few individuals that did choose to stand and fight, just imagine if we all had been united under such a banner.

I see no blessings that were brought with the arrival of those pasty skinned dullards. Unless you count hypocritical and detached religions, various diseases and plagues, death, lies, etc? Not only did they manage to wipe out much of what was once a beautiful and thriving culture, but with it they took several species of animals as well. The greedy heart of the Whiteman knows no boundaries.

But, since I?m only pretending to be offended by such, would you please tell me what I?m actually offended by? That way, I can go whine about it instead and leave you in peace to wallow in your mental state of white supremacy and obviously flawed ego. As dna has already stated, many of our cultures are far from dead, though have sadly been deluded and capitalized upon, even being bred out of existence in some cases. I?m not necessary attempting to make you feel remorse or regret for actions of the past, but I do firmly believe that they should be recognized and acknowledged. I am certainly, in no way, saying that I have more of a right to live here than you do either. My ancestors struggled for a peaceful coexistence until the bitter end, ultimately it was the invaders who saw life and prosperity among one another to be unfit, like the good Christians they were.

Oh, and I brought about no mention of said oppression of Scotland because it is but one of many wrongdoings in British history. To thoroughly and accurately go over every misdeed would take forever, and probably more storage space than this forum is willing to shell out.

Quake. :P

Thanks for arguing such points in my absence, Dev, I think you are better suited to it anyway, considering. You make excellent points though I think it is sadly futile to argue such, at least here, no matter what evidence you provide, what facts you present, the idea(s) will still always be shot down, that's the kind of conditioning you should expect (I thought you knew this). Through the years as I've spoken out I've some to realize that no matter how much I tried, could not change the intellectual impotence of an entire country.

Which is actually rather amusing, I find myself on the other side of the fence due, in part, to the local indoctrination that rubs on my nerves.

The expectation that any group should be held responsible for the actions of a relative minority is ludicrous. Not only are you judging Christians by the actions of evangelists, but now the white man at large is evil...

Honestly, I'm tired of responding to this. I refuse to be held responsible for idiot christians. I refuse to be held responsible for american slavery, for the slaughter of the tribes of man living here before the europeans moved in.

Among my ancestors, I count so-called native american blood, I count jayhawks and the blood for former slaves, I count relatively minor european royalty who fled because they married "commoners" for LOVE.

As such, I find this puling drivel personally insulting.

I know I'm an exception, I know I'm not in the majority. HOWEVER, I will NOT be held responsible for the crimes committed by people who looked like me. No one race is innocent, so quit your bitching and move on.

Well Angst, thanks for setting this topic back. For some unknown reason, you?ve decided to rehash each and every one of Woodsman?s claims. I guess having them easily destroyed once wasn?t good enough, eh? Anyway, to save time, I shall simply suggest you take a look in the northern direction of this thread, for it is there that most of your questions will be answered.

I will expand upon some points though, such as you thinking that hypocritical Christians are the minority. All I have to say to that is: HA!. In my experience, it has been extremely difficult to find a Christian worthy of the air they breathe. Of course, I realize that there are exceptions to this, just as there is to everything. Besides, the white man, at large, is indeed quite evil. History does not lie.

Quit my bitching and move on? I would gladly move on if what I was fighting was IN THE PAST. However, it is not, as is evident from various sources? lack of realization.

I'm not setting anything back, I'm simply stating that I am tired of the fscking race-card. As for answering my questions, where do I ask a question in that post? Honestly, did you even bother reading it in it's entirety?

my point can be summed up as thus:

My gripe is simple, all I see is finger-pointing. Noone is willing to bury the hatchet. This group bitches about that group who bitches about another group.

Myself? I'm bitching about all the bitching.

If noone ever lets it go it will never stay in the past. It has to start somewhere, and I'm tired of being on the outside looking in as it were.

I have worked most of my life to bring people together and all I have to show for it are the bruises of so-called progressives who demand retribution from innocent people. *I* don't see people based on race. *I* don't judge people based on religion or lack thereof. So why do I find myself defending the same people you're attacking? Because you're attacking them. If you were defending anything worthwhile, I'd be on your side.

HOWEVER, all I see in this thread is insult-slinging and vague, poorly-aimed barbs that happen to strike myself and my largely historically-ignored heritage. Instead of placing blame and false shame, perhaps you should simply be proud of what yourself and your ancestors have accomplished, survived, and continue to create.

A fair enough statement, however, it is hard to do so when you are hated, or in the very least ignored. The majority of people are oblivious as to what the history of this country really is, and that?s sad, because once flourished an utterly beautiful array of cultures. It is hard not to complain about our current situation, as no justice has been tossed our way. For example; there were nearly half a dozen Christian holidays in just this one month alone, yet not one Native American holiday in the entire year. I don?t see a ?Red History Month? either. And, as stated before, it is even more disgusting when compared with holidays which are clearly displayed with a hateful undertone towards us.

All in all, such things are just examples. I never much cared for holidays in general, and would certainly not wish to see my ancestors? suffering turned into a profitable parade or some such commercialized bullshit.

Part of this is due to the fact that legally, and officially, the Tribal Nations, as it were, are separate entities. And the prevaling idea that the United States of America is a Christian nation. You most likely won't find any Tribal holidays celebrated off-reservation. Or outside of the occasional pow-wows, which have become a tad too commercial for my taste in recent years.. :/ I miss those..

Agreed.

Dont forget about the vikings damn you!

The Italian Americans have latched onto the Vikings?  Wha...?