Wirehead Studios

Besides the ones allready in Gen, what maps would you like to see? I'm thinking Q2DM8 (I think); The Warehouse. I've been playing it a lot lately since 1 of the 3 or 4 Q2 servers with a decent ping runs nothing but The Warehouse all day. It'd also be nice to get more Doom maps, particularly something from Doom 1. I don't know which ones were good for DM though since I never played Doom multiplayer.

Well, I plan on remaking quite a few myself. This list is subject to change though ;)

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Wolfenstein 3D: The Way of the Gun - E1L9Q3 (remake of E1L9, Hans Grosse)

Quake II: Of Flesh and Cogs - Q2BOSS2Q3 (remake of BOSS2, The Final Showdown)

Doom: South of Heaven - E4M1Q3 (remake of E4M1, Hell Beneath)

Quake III Arena: Warlords of Jupiter - MRNULLQ3DM1 (undecided space-floater, original art deco design)

Quake: Twilight of the Gods - Q1ENDQ3 (remake of END, Shub-Niggurath's Lair)

Quake II: Disposable Heros - Q2BIGGUNQ3 (remake of BIGGUN, Big Gun)

Doom II: The Waking Wrath - D2M30Q3 (Remake of Level 4, Focus)

Quake II: Children of the Fallout - Q2DM4Q3 (remake of Q2DM4, Lost Hallways)

Wolfenstein 3D: Beyond the Wall of Sleep - E5L9Q3 (remake of E5L9, Gretel Grosse)

Quake: Black Illusion - Q1E1M6Q3 (remake of E1M6, The Door to Chthon)

Quake II: Soul Creation - Q2FACT3Q3 (remake of FACT3, Sudden Death)

Quake II: House of the Rising Sun - Q2SECURITYQ3 (remake of SECURITY, Grid Control)

Quake: Resurrection - Q1STARTQ3 (remake of START)

Strogg:
Agreed on DM8 - also desperately like to see a GOOD remake of q2dm3 (the frag pipe), and ztn's (from ztn's recycler) maps for q2.

there is 1 good fragpipe out there .
but you have to change the arena file so you can also play it in deathmatch and teamdeathmatch .
its very good

Remember Quake 2's Gound Zero Mission Pack? I think that last boss map, that big round room, should be in Generations.

For Wolfenstein............. CTF map of Ohama Beach!! :D

Doom... why not try a floating map (like a space map), but the skies are red and hellish (which means on hell)?

Quake 1, a castle alike map, with full of traps...

Someone should do Doom2 Map16: The Suburbs.  It's the best vanilla Doom ][ DM map for 4 or more players.  And for Strogg....  Q2DM5, I think that is the number... it's the one with the noisy armor bridge and the semi-circle catwalk above the rocket launcher, anyway.  
That's what popped into my head at the moment.  I think that Strogg map should be made with curved walls though.
And spork No! there should not be a space/floatie map for Doom.
Floaty maps should only be in the quake style

q1dm8

if you have the missionpacks for quake it will not show upp in the menus but it is there .
cool map anyway .
other then that a floating doom map is actually possible .
because in episode 2 of doom  deimos is floating above hell itself .
so actually you have to make a floating rock into space but instead of the void you have to make somekind of fog of dead that has some looks like  hellish ground under it .

so you see it IS possible .
and even angst has actually made a space map out of d1e2m8
it has cyberdemon legs in it ,all the weapons and a dopefish :)

bout q2 maps i've started to makea layout of all q2dm maps, im gonna *try* to someway combine the best features of those maps into one, but first im gonna finish my other map(s).

I'd really love to see some of the better FFA Q2 maps.  Stuff like Q2DM4, Q2DM5, maybe Q2DM6.  I'd also really really really love to see that Q2 CTF maps...some of those were simply amazing.  

I'd tried to do a CTF map based on DOOM E1M4...but I lost the more recent versions I'd been working on and kinda stopped working on it...I might try to work on it more sometime (I suck though with regards to mapping).  

I'd also like to see a really good Q2DM3...there was one out there but it was too jumppad oriented...I'd like to see one more true to the original with ladders and a less Q3'ish feel.  

The Q1 DM maps have all been done (some with more than one incarnation), although more Q1 maps that put a different spin on things are always cool ("old school" aka "r_tourney8c" by r_speeds/two_am is a great great Q1DM4 inspired map that manages to be completely different from DM4 while taking some of the cool elements from it).

I'd really like to see that one Q2 map.. city2 i think it was..
it was one of the 'city' ones, the one with the outdoor cliffs, and the lava tunnels, and stuff..

we had many a good Dm on that level.

dicion cant you just wait for city 64 :)

Yeah, I've always thought the Doom maps would make good CTF since they were designed linearly; merely to get from the first room to the last room and not as DM maps in the first place.

Hey Dev/null, I like your map choices, but please don't change the names so much when you make them; I like knowing where the map is derived from instead of just having a group of random old school maps.

It would be cool if someone remade some Doom 64 maps. It would be tough because of the console format, but the game had great textures and some awesome levels.

I HATE floaty maps!!!!  :angry:

Wolfenstein: Definitely E1M9 (Grosse), but that's apparently already being made.

Doom: Dis, Slough of Despair, The Warrens, Fortress of Mystery

Doom 2: Dead Simple, Fuel Refinery, Circle of Death, Downtown, The Spirit World (Best level in Doom 2, I swear on my life), and who knows, maybe even Icon of Sin when Resurgence comes out...that would rock all ass.

Final Doom: Go 2 It (Plutonia)

Quake 1: Shub Niggurath's Pit, Ziggurat Vertigo...I dunno many more.

Quake 2: The Pits, Warehouse, and that one level where you fight the first giant tank boss...I forget what it's called.

Those are the ones that I think would be sweet Gen maps

what about daedalus' barrels o fun map?!  :thumb:

Oh, I love that level :)

I do not agree with that, Dev/Null has some of the most creative map names around. If you want to see crazy map naming, check out some of the guys on the Quake3World Level Editing, they just go out there with the names

i really liked the XLdm series for q2 wit lots of banners and blue light and some nice action both vertical and horizontal

A q2dm8 remake would be nice, but I'd like to see more Earth maps - ones that utilize his weapons the best, even in a 1v1 map. So far, Deva Station is the only map that Earth can really dominate. He needs a few elements in the map - Lotsa corners to go around w/ wide hallways, and a few enlarged areas loaded with gear.

There are TONS of maps where Doom, Strogg and Arena dominate. Make some where Quake1 and Earth start 0wning up =D

You should enjoy Propaganda Campaign then :)

Somebody should make some maps that go along with each class. I mean like taking assorted pieces of DOOM and DOOM2 to make about 4 or 5 good complex maps, pieces from all the quake games to make about 5 big maps each, and assorted elements from Wolfenstein and RTCW to make about 4 big maps. Something that would have the look of the game it was from but retaining all the technical advantages of Quake3. But then this is all my worthless opinion anyway.

Is anybody in favor of The Ogre Citadel? Or the Lost Station secret level from Quake2? How about The Nuclear Plant from Doom episode1 map2? Let's take a vote.

Heh. Deth's Domain is the name of my website....... :thumb:

hey what map is that in the screenshots in the powerups section

It's their secret test map *dramatic reverb* ;)

Most important of all, put in secrect areas/levels in each map! :D

Yeah E1M2, 3, or 4 is a must. It doesn't get any more 'Doom' than that. It would be nice if someone remixed some of the old Doom music to go with it.

And the Tank Commander map from Q2, that map rocks. Especially when you first spawn and the music's like "DUNDUNDUN DUNDUN DUNDUNDUN DUNDUN DUNDUNDUNDUNDUN DUN DUN DUN..." and they you pick up the rail gun and it's like "PIOOW... AAAAAAAAARRGH!" and then someone gets the hyperblaster and they're like BWEEEREEEREEEEREEEEREEEREE" and then you get the super shotgun and you're like "BOOOOOOOM!...chuck-chuck...BOOOOOM!...."

*Scratches head in confuse...

No offense, but did you put in the wrong DUN-DUN CD??? Wha?

there was a map for doom 1, called usq2, me and my friend dualed on that map on a 14.4 dialed directly to each other for hours, and hours and hours.  anyhoo if anyone can find it again and replicate it, that would be awesome.  it was basically a single barreled shotgun map with a chainsaw thrown in for fun, it was great, if anyone wants to find it or remembers it or has played it multi or can ICQ me it 51061673 that would be great and I would love you long time, also make a gen version of it that would be nice too

Claypidgeon from Doom2 would be great, but only if there's a way to fill it with bad guys that shoot. Also the pit, underhalls, the industrial zone, the waste tunnels..... I've played Doom2 too much I guess. I especially like the music that was in the pit level and the tune for bloodfalls. How about the security complex from Quake2? That's a good level. :)

Oh, that reminds me.. the lab from Quake2 would be pretty cool too (the two storage black-themed one)

The upper and lower palaces would be super as well. The question is are they too big and complex? If I can get the picture scanned, I'll send you the picture of the latest version of my Claypidgeon map. The picture is a top view because that map was made for Doom2. It features a huge circular courtyard with several watch towers inside.

Hey this is my first post at these forums... but I got to say I am lovin the Generations mod - it dos kick much ass  :thumb:  - anyway The level I would most like to see in Generations arena is Level 3 from the original DooM2 game it was called the Gantlet... me and my freinds always used that level for Deathmatch and it worked great - the dead ends really made you think on how the f*ck you were going to get out of certian situations,  I actually made a level of the original gantlet, and it looks great cosmeticlly but I am a novice level maker and this level could use work... for example I don't know how to make a BOT file and I probably have way to many brushes into it.  but if anyone here would be willing to take a look at it and maybe touch it up a little for the mod I would be more then happy to hand it over,  I have also created a DooM texture pack for this level and they look very acurate (they should anyway - I took them directly from the game)

- I will post some pictures later, if anyone is interested please let me know

 ..::!?

dear what

textures have to be original as it is illegal to take textures from one game to another without the authors permission

a map with ripped textures can never be included into a generations mappack
also textures from doom is kinda low resolution and grainy

wouldnt it be better to use high-res textures for the new map so it looks better?

welcome to the boards

Oh I didn't realize there would be a copyright issue... I can always change the textures... it's no big deal.  and yes the DooM textures are a *little* grainy.  But to be honest if you put the right lighting with them they look great, and it really brings out the nostalgia feel, I personally miss the old DooM days so I tried to re-create the level as close as I could,  I did add on to it though, there are now roof tops and bridges in the level which really create a good vertical aspect,  since I am not on your design team I understand how you could be a little cautious  about taking in the level but I would be happy if one of  you would have a look at it... and if you don't wan't to use it, theres no hard feelings, augh! I gotta get pictures up I will be back later

What!?: There are some remade doom textures out there you know, better to use them instead since every original art is copyrighted.

 I highly advise you to finish the lvl your self that's the only way to learn howto map, once you've released your first map things goes much easier :)

And to add bot support you need a file called BSPC.EXE it should be in your radiant folder. This is the easy way of doing a .aas file (bot file) copy BSPC.EXE to /baseq3/maps create a .bat file with the following options: bspc.exe -threads 1 -optimize -bsp2aas yourmap.bsp
and whopps you now have bot support to your map :)

speaking of level's I'd like to see, there was a space map for chaosdm q2 that I don't think was included in any of the official mappacks, it was mostly a collection of walkways and ramps, the skybox I THINK was earth too.... anyone remember that map? O.o

Hey thanks a lot for the help... I really apreciate it :thumb:, and your right I should probably just get my ass in gear and finish the level, it has actually been a while since I touched it - GTA3 came out and I have been messing with that for awhile now, it would be a lot easier to edit if R* would release their damn tools  :angry:  anyway... here are those level pics I promised, you will have to take my word for how it looks in game, which is a lot better then these pics, my JPEG compression sucks.

(http://www.imgmag.org/images/what3/Doom1J.jpg)

(http://www.imgmag.org/images/what3/Doom2J.jpg)

(http://www.imgmag.org/images/what3/Doom3J.jpg)

The textures look good actually, the map could use some colored lighting though (on the teleporter and around the lamps, that sort of thing)... Other than that though it looks very nice, I'd love to see it once you're finished :)

p.s. GTA2's still the best in my opinion :P

lol - yeah I liked GTA2 and GTA1 but I need that 3-D aspect so I gotta give it to GTA3

- Thanks for the compliments on the level... it will probably be a few days before I can work on it again but if I do anything new and exciting on it I will post more pics :thumb:

note: You are allowed to use my textures - or any others you may find in the textures thread up on the main gen forum page. Just in case you didn't know yet ;]

TABUN!!!! I'm just wondering if you found the pictures I sent you useful at all. If I could make those maps I would. Damn I need tools that work. I need reliable internet too. It really sucks BIG HAIRY ELEPHANT DICKS to have to use the school internet to download or do anything else. Also it's official now, I can't write code. I'm no good at it. Hope to hear your input soon. Maybe it won't be long before I have radiant again, and actually get it to work this time.

/me continues to flip through C++ For Dummies  :D

Ok thanks Tabun... its hard to find custom Quake 3 textures that still have that DooM feel to them,  I don't know if I have seen yours yet but I will check them out...

BTW - I love this smiley  :daddy:  - lmao!

EDIT:
=====
Tabun I check out your textures, they are very nice... I think they will help me out, but I am still gonna have to find a lot of non DooM replacement textures...
Maybe I will try making some of my own  :thud:

What!?: The level looks very good, you do have some nice mapping skills there if you continue to do maps i think you will be a very good mapper :)

Anyway i forgot to mention this link: http://www.planetquake.com/bighouse/textures.asp (http://www.planetquake.com/bighouse/textures.asp) there you will find plenty of textures and i think i saw a doom-ish texture set there...go get it!
btw you know we do have a mapping forum here at Wirehead go to the forum called "Laced neptune" and post your mapping progress there.

..::WHAT!?: Can I have your email please? I would like to tell you something. Thanks a lot.

Ok thanks I will swing by there later...

@Lunitic Guy - I PMed you my E-Mail

BTW - I was just thinking - why is the copyright for the DooM textures an issue here - I mean I see levels using the original Quake 3 textures all the time and nobody seems to have a problem with them  <_<

that is because the quake3 textures are included in quake 3
hence they can be used for maps made for quake 3 legaly

the doom textures can only be used for doom-maps etc

fot you to be able to take textures from one game to another you need the authors permission wich they wont give usually since if you havent bought their game you shouldnt be able to enjoy their textures

if you use textures from game A in maps for game B without permission you are dooing something illegal, namely breaking copywright

you can remake textures that look about the same as long as you make them from the ground up

its not allowed to modify textures and use them in other games

i hope this helps what
if not pm me and ill try to explain it better

Naw I understand... I am re-doing the textures in the level right now, there are just so damn many of them  :thud:  - I think that last post was a last ditch at trying to get out of the work  ;)  

BTW - Thanks VERY much to ReBoOt - for that little thing you wrote about making a bot file... it worked like a charm  :thumb:, now all I have to figure out is how to setup the correct file structure inside a .pk3  so my map will work like any othe Downloaded file  (I am still using the command prompt to load it from my maps directory)  :(

What!?: No problems man! im glad that i could help u.
anyway the directory structure for a .PK3 file should be like this:

maps--> here you put your "yourmapname.BSP "and "yourmapname.AAS" files
levelshots--> A screenshot of your level, using a low rez is recommended also try to use .jpg instead of .tga. the file name should be the same as the lvl.
scripts--> here you place your map(s) shaders and a file called "yourmapname.arena" the Arena file makes your map showing up in the map selcetion screen, also you can specify which bot that should be used, fraglimits...
textures-->yourtexturefolder--> well.. i don't have to explain this one? :)
models-->mapobjects-->yourmodelfolder--> if you have a custom model place the models textures here NOT the .MD3 models get "bsped" into the map.

Okay that should be it just zip those folders and rename "yourpk3name.zip" to "yourpk3name.pk3"

Hey thanks again... I haven't tried this yet but I am sure it will work,  I have my level about 70% retextured now so it shouldn't be long before I post new screen shots.

(BTW if there is anyone who would like to be a beta tester please let me know.  I wan't to make sure item placement and atmosphere are working well for the level before I make an official release  ;) )

Gimmie a yell WHAT!?, and i will be happy to beta test your map.

About resurgence and maps: will really big monsters appear in any map they wan't too??? Consider the threat of the cyberdemon. In big open maps the cyber isn't too tough, and in big maps with the right cover, such as the tower of babel from DOOM the cyber by itself is fairly easy. If the cyber appears in maps barely big enough to accomodate it's head clearance but with corridors wide enough to let it roam, it becomes a truly deadly sumbitch. The spider mastermind is so big and has such a wide track, it could easily get stuck in walls if the spawn point is in a small space meant for arena gladiators and other human sized targets. I assume you all have this taken into account.

When I think BIG monsters, I think Chthon :P

Cthon would be okay because he's stationary. The only problem would be if his head stuck in a ceiling or if he beamed in too close to a wall and got stuck to it. Also Cthon had to be shocked with a special shocker built into the map, so he might be indestructible.

I don't think that would be a problem. I'm sure it's pretty easy to code spawn points so only certain monsters can spawn there. In that case only spawn points in areas wide enough to accomodate would spawn large monsters.

That's good. Speaking of big monsters and wide maps, generations could probably use some all new theme oriented maps, rather than all remixes. What might be a good idea is to mix and match pieces of existing maps into huge, complex new labyrinths. Imagine Azure Agony from quake1 episode4 mixed with the Torture Chambers from quake2 and the Underhalls from DOOM2.

Another good map idea might be one built on the concept of having as many high towers and tall buildings as possible. Some of the buildings could be connected with catwalks and suspension bridges, some on different floors. Maybe even some slime or lava pits all the way at the bottom would help. Even if I had a working map builder I think some of this might be over my head. B)

I've always enjoyed vertical maps... Tokays Tower, The Edge, Vertical Vengeance, etc :D

I think of the last boss from Duke Nukem 3D :P

I think that big baby from half-life . :thud:

I don't think I ever took the time to get pass the level with the shrinking machine  <_<

Inner Sanctum KatDM3 for an Earth class map...  I probably mentioned this one back in January... can't remember  havent played it since then either  but  I saw it was on LVL.... anyway
that is all for now. ;-)

I think we need Doom maps the most, followed by Wolfenstein and then Q2. We have almost all the Q1 DM maps at this point, but only 3 Q2  maps and only a couple Dooms and Wolfs.

I think one of the challenges Gen mappers will face is making the Earth/Wolf maps interesting. Even though we need more Wolf maps right now, personally, I'dd rather see more Q2 and Doom maps more just because the idea of maps that take place in the normal world doesn't seem too exciting. The one earth map we have so far (I forget the name now) is well done, but it doesn't seem to fit in with all the other maps and I'm not really motivated to play it. Also, of course, since the maping capabilities of the Wolf engine were pretty limited back then, there can't be too many remakes of the original maps, cause they're going to all look and feel pretty much the same. Sure, one or two dark, dank, Nazi prison levels will work, but after that it's going to get stale. The ration of themed-to-remake maps will probably be pretty high for the Wolf maps.

If we're going to have Earth maps, they can't just be your run of the mill WW2 maps that make some fool walk into your room and go "ooh, are you playing Medal of Honor?" They still have to be dark, strange, and unique. Rather than having a scenic european village with a couple holes blown in the walls, we need a scene of total chaos with the village engulfed in flames, smoky, dark skies, things exploding, burnt shit everywhere, etc. I also think typical, commonly recognized WW2 settings like occupied vilages and trenches should be avoided in an of themselves as much as possible. When I first saw Wolf 3D, I didn't know it was a WW2 game, all I knew was you were stuck in some kind of dark dungeon with rabid dogs and evil men with guns chasing you. Wolf wasn't a WW2 game, it was more like a survival/horror/action game which happened to have a WW2 setting.

At the same time, we don't want a bunch of typical Quake maps labeled as Wolfenstein maps either. I think with the Earth class maps there's the opportunity to have stuff like larger outdoor arenas with grass and trees, seperate distinct buildings, a generally more coherent setting, and other stuff which is more common of other games but are omited from Quake because of the environment, and still make the maps uniquely Quake.

icould make a wolf map.
nice flat. right corners and no water or ladders to concern about . everething I need :D

I would really like to see space-based Wolf, Doom, Quake and Quake 2 maps... that are based on space levels...

games keeper: Do some remakes of Wolf3D maps from their original levels... like that one map of episode 3 last boss (Hitler's) map... it's mostly squares but nice...

Devlar's remake of e1m1 from Wolfenstein 3D was pretty nice. I think it could have been a lot of fun with some work.

Anyways, you don't have to use squares and such. I'm doing Hans' level and it has benefited greatly from the use of curves and abnormal effects :)

I personally want to see all the Q2 DM maps and some CTF maps the most (a lot of Q2DM's I would really love to see in GenArena).  After that I'd love to some of the DOOM maps remixed or whatever.  Maybe even a Heretic1 map or two ;).

Remixes are good, but new maps with them would be even better. For people that like vertical maps snott a problem would be good. Imagine snott a problem from earth worm jim redone for quake3. The difference would be bounce pads instead of bungee cords and lava or slime instead of water with a space monster in it. Basiclly a deep canyon with liquid at the bottom and maybe a few caves in the cliff faces. When I think of BIG monsters I think of the boss of Serious Sam the first encounter, so big even Sam is impressed and says "you're a biggun aint'chya?" The help screens claim it's 300 feet tall.

dev/null: Does the Hans map has those parallel metal pillars? If yes, you could add those hanging corpses on them.   :)

Devlar made a Wolf3D map for Gen??

So people, is there really going to be a Wolf3D/Doom/Quake/Quake2  space-based maps??   :D

I think for the most part  Wolf/Doom/Q1/Q2 space maps would be an oxymoron, atleast unless you thought of a good concept behind it. I could see a Doom space map taking place in a sort of dream-like hellish void (like someone mentioned earlier) but for the most part space maps are an environment unique to Q3 and making one for a different class would be the same as making a Slipgate map for Wolfenstein or something.

By the way, you could do a cool crossover map for Doom; Hell on Earth; an Earth city invaded by Doom monsters. It would work as a Earth and Doom map. I think it would only register as a being invaded by Doom monsters if you left some monster carcases lieing around, which probably would not be possible till resurgence was done.

Of course I have ideas and concepts... but I don't know mappings...

Maping isn't that hard, it's just time consuming. I taught myself how to make Unreal maps over a weekend. I haven't tried making Quake maps yet, but it can't be all that different. If you think you have good ideas you should take a stab at it. Granted, even once you know the technical side to actually constructing the map, creating the map is still a learning process, complexifying your designs and ironing out every detail, but its just a matter of time. Using map editors is not that hard, it's just a matter of having a good concept for a map and taking the time and effort to execute it.

How about a sky map?? Several buildings suspended up in clouds with sky in all directions. More or less a space map with a sky instead of a void. I think making decent looking clouds would be the hardest part. I'd make it myself but I don't have an editor and my computer downloads sooooo sslllloooooooooowwwwwwwwwwww. :hail:

Vadertime: When you said sky maps and its description... it reminds me a map of UT 2003...

Check out Tiki Domain's site for maps... they really have some nice maps to be checked out actually...

I'm still a bit low tech to see UT 2003 here, so what was that map like? Also, I'd like to see a "rooftop" map. One where every roof can be walked on and many of them close enough to jump from building to building.

I really like the Q2DM maps in Gen...I'm one of the few people who liked Q2 over the rest...

I think the QuakeCon map that Polecat made would be good for Gen...heh...provided you made a few modifications to keep it framerate friendly, and make a few cosmetic enhancements (like a daytime sky, etc)

Vadertime: I forgot the exact name of the map. But the building are so tall, that you can actually see lots of stars in the space, and when you look below, these tall buildings are like, standing above the earth. And it has of course gravity issues.   :D

Why not make a map, and it's only a round/box map, very small map, just enough for one-on-one, and the whole place place looks like, the place in "Gladiator" movie, where the players only fight to the death in one same place. But you could make it look like a space map, or maybe just another land map.

Hey Lunatic Guy and Vadertime, not that these ideas are at all bad, but you've kinda abandoned the Generations part of it all. None of these are related to Gen in any way.  :huh:

Yeah, I understand. But these ideas just came out from my mind, that's why I'm posting them here.  :P

By the way, that's a nice Doom avatar you had. Is that your skin?

Alright then, somehow one of us should try to come up with a mars colony like the Phobos and Deimos bases in Doom, but a lot more convincing so that it looks like a space colony and doesn't jump back and fourth from NASA looking stuff to candalabras and stonewalls. That was one thing that seemed so stupid about doom. Why would a Mars moonbase have castle stuff and strange artwork in the middle of it? If the demons could supposedly alter things to suit them, why didn't the whole map look like some devil castle from one end to the other? It appeared like the id guys couldn't agree on what game they were making. Also, keeping with the story, no devils showed up on mars to screw it up.

Hmm well...i whould love to do a space station / mars colony and i've actually started two layouts but none of them really works, i guess i might go back to the drawing board and give it another try.

I'd really like to see The Gloom Keep (Hint, Hint ReBoOt)  ;)

Thanks. Yeah, I was trying out making skins for the first time a couple weeks ago. They were mostly edit/re-colors of Paranoid's Veteran skin, but I changed the helmet color back to gray, and did several different skins. The suit colors were all as close to the original Doom as possible, with the default green, then I did a zombie-man beige and a shotgun guy black. I then did "mega-armor" blue and a red skin I aptly named "phoenix". I'm not extremely proud of them since they're not completely my work, but I think they look good and do a good job recreating the original Doom graphics. I'm also plan on doing blood stained versions of the beige and black to recreate the true zombie skins, and when I have time I'm going to try skining Grunt heads as Zombieman, Shotgunguy, and helmet-less Doom heads that you can use with the /headmodel command.

Vadertime, have you played Coriolis Storm? If you haven't check it here: http://planetquake.com/lvl/comments.asp?id=243 (http://planetquake.com/lvl/comments.asp?id=243) It's an abandoned base in the middle of some martian wasteland, it's very similar to the idea you were just talking about.

As for the original Doom maps, I LIKED the transition from space station to hell. I think the idea was that as the demons invade, the bases are slowly tranformed into images of hell. The point is it's a gradualy process, starting from the center of their invasion out, so while the surface of the base still looks like a space station, as you go down to the depths it becomes more and more gothic and hellish. It should be interesting to see how this transition is handled in the new Doom. In my opinion the transition and melding of space and hell was what made the environements of the oringinal Doom unique, and if the new Doom is all nothing but wandering abandoned space station halls shooting zombies, it'll get boring. It going to be really challenging for the creators to create a complete, fully fleshed out hell environment in such a realistic, life-like engine, while still keeping things as out-of-this-world as they should be.

Yeah it was unique all right. The idea makes enough sense, but in the orignal game it was choppy and spliced up. It didn't seem to follow a logical pattern like what you just described, it seemed more random and patchwork. I haven't seen the map you're reffering to so I'll take a look. If the moonbase-space colony theme is already that common then somebody needs to make another Generations map, like the one in mappack 1 that has portions styled for each generation. If I remeber right though, the different sections weren't all very big. This time it needs to have a large, distinct section for each style. I've already got a few ideas, but not the whole thing. For Doom's portion you could have a place like a Roman public bath (as seen on Spartacus) except all statues, busts, and art would be demon art straight from doom and the large pool and fountains would need blood instead of water. Also with a red sky and possibly some active lava flows outside( lots of lava blobs here). For Arena class, a different part of the map could be a computer room, dimly lit except for lots of small colored lights and the computer screens. For the Strogg portion all I can think of is some sort of ductwork and assorted pipes. Lots of places for climbing, jumping, and falling. For Slipgaters, I'm thinking a large maze of hallways with vaulted ceilings and windows with bars. Also an upper level with grills in the floor. I'm not sure what you'd have for the Wolfenstein part. Maybe the basement for the whole thing. What does it take to make skins? I've been wanting to make some fairly simple ones. I've been thinking of taking some of the models and just making them a different color, like taking the red sorlag and making a green one. How would I do that?

dev/null: The gloom keep is almost finished, but i wont make it "public" until gen 99c is released.

On the note of those headmodels you were talking about Gnam, a long time ago, I cooked this up:

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/pics/grunt_spos.jpg)

A shotgun zombie's head for grunt's ugly nogg. I think I also made some brushstrokes & got started on the normal zombie's head for sarge, but gave up, since sarge's head has a total of 4 polygons. Before I could get to modelling my own, other Gen projects beckoned.

I thought. I thought I had a heart attack when I saw your skin, Tab.

Interesting skin Tab. It's hard coming up with features that make a distinctive shotgun guy head, since in Doom his head was like flesh-tone 8 pixels with 2 red dots for eyes and some red pixels for a mouth. BTW, I was thinking, if you're just making a head skin, do you have to make a dummy body skin for the whole thing to work? Or can you just have a head tga and a head skin in the pk3 and use the headmodel command?

Yeah, I was thinking for the zombieman head, even though he has a crewcut like sarge, it wasn't worth it cause his head's too small. I was figuring I'd just do the hair like the pointman and nightops Q2 skins (a CLOSE buzz).

Oh yeah, and one more skin/model question... is it possible to code a skin file so it uses a different headmodel?

I'm not sure if the headmodel would work without a dummy .skin / & models to back it up. I'd be surprised if it would, though.

Since it's just a matter of renaming model files, building your own skin file to use a different head/body should work just fine. You might need to copy redundant data though - I haven't tested this myself.

About the facial features - It's hard indeed, just like it's been for the weapons and items. Nearly every model I've skinned for Gen was based on anywhere between 12 and 64 pixels ;]
Just tried to translated colours to more realistic values and get the feel right.. guess my imagination comes in handy sometimes ;]

I assume there's plenty of good skin creation tutorials all over the web already right? Where can I find a good one and what files do I need to make skins? AND did the map drawings I sent give anybody any ideas or did they just get in the way like other spam????????????

There's lots of skin tutorials out there, yes. They range from technical Q3A (or any other game) related tutorials, such as how the .skin file system works, to pure painting tips and techniques. It's very hard to point you to a specific tutorial, since I didn't really use any myself - I got tips from Acryl in the start (he was already pretty damn good back then) and sort of self-educated myself afterwards. I've found it's a great help knowing the tools and their full stretch of functions (depending on the imaging software you use).

Done a few myself (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/), too, but  they're pretty old.. so be your own judge

Is anyone here a fan of The Vaults of Zin from Quake1 episode3? That should be a good map to remake and expand on. I looked at your page, Tabun. I couldn't find the old skins but I'll look again. I'll try to get started skinning things soon. Don't expect any earthquakes for awhile though.

hmm, well i might check it out, depends tho if it interessting to remake, what's the file name of The Vaults of Zin?

I'm not sure what the file name is, but it's in episode 3 of the first Quake, maybe level2. I know you start the episode in Termination Central and go through a slipgate. I think the Vaults of Zin is the very next map but I'm not sure. It's the one where you see a silver key on top of a trapdoor. I saw Tabun's old skins. Recon for Grunt was especially good. I found it very funny because he looked sort of hung over. :D

I was referring to my tutorials - kind of strange that you couldn't find them, as they are in the tutorials section... :]
Don't ask me why I put them there - it seemed like a good idea at the time.. :P

Okay then the map name is e3m2 i'll take a look at it tonight.
btw i've already done the basic layout for e3m1 -The termination central.
Now this is supposed to be a future resurgence map but if ya really want i can make a FFA version of it, tho i dont know how well it whould work as an FFA map.
So it's up to you ppls here to decide.

e3m1 -The termination central?

The one where the players choose which episode to play by stepping on those portal things?

Lunatic guy: nah you mean the "start" map, e3m1 is the first map at the 3rd episode.

I just replayed Doom2 GL, and I think there are 3 maps that should be made for Gen.

But I'll try to replay the first Quake, and see what maps that should be made to Gen.

I'll post them later...

I did find your tutorials Tabun. I still don't really know how to make a skin. Does it take any special utility to put the files in the right format? How can you put them in a PK3 and how do you open PK3 files? I opened a third party skin with wordpad and saw jibberish characters everywhere. Also, what ever happened to those map pictures I sent? Were they even discernable? If you can find them and think they're worth looking at, let reboot look at them if you haven't already. :huh:

Three comments Vader:

1) You're right, my tutorials don't address (all) the basics. They assume general knowledge of bitmaps, leave you free to choose the drawing program(s) you prefer, and they don't cover the entire field of skinning. I just listened to what people wanted to know at the time, and decided to do a bit on this or that,  just like with my Captain Dubious 3dmax unwrap-tutorial.
If you need help on how to make bitmaps(TGAs) and general paint programs, try some shareware(z) and see what you like, then do a couple of internetsearches on things that leave you in the dark. (I prefer photoshop myself)

2)  You found my tutorials, but as it seems, not all of them. Take another look and make note of the PK3 tutorial right there, it answers your questions on that topic...
 

3) I can vaguely remember getting some huge sketches, and I can remember looking at them - but sorry, I think I deleted them and I know I must have been thinking something along the lines of: 'What am I supposed to do with this?' - and assumed you'd just sent em to the whole team or something.
Anyway, map ideas are always best sent to a mapper. So, as you are suggesting yourself, let reboot take a look at em :]

Vadertime:  sure i can take a look at your map pictures, if they are interessting enuff, i *might* make em.
for the momment i do have some maps to finish first like:
q1e1m5 (95% done)
q1e3m1 (basic layout finished)
q2dm3 (layout finished)
q2 deathmatch map mix (think like genstart) (still in planning stages)
CTF version of req1dm3 (When i feel for it)

Cool, Reboot, I didn't know you were working on The Frag Pipe...  I'm still waiting for someone to do q2dm5 - The Pits... especially if it has curved walls ;-)

yes, you can do a simple headmodel change

NO I tried this for tab's zombiemen skins. The .skin can only function on the model who's skin you're defining. You would have to create a separate folder in which are the head and body models you want to use for the skin. Very inefficient.

Well i kinda felt that gen needed more q2 maps that's why i started q2dm3 (also cuz i like to squish ppls)  ;)

People get squished by that spinning thing, by the quad and above the water in Q2DM5 ;-)  There's also lots of other nice things on that map.  Damn, that didn't sound like a very exciting pitch, doh!  oh well,  at least I tried  sorta ;)
Someday, maybe, I'll get to see q2dm5 in Q3, I hope.
K, nuff of my rambling for this post.

Heh, I made some squish/playerkill machines in some of my q2 maps (which are downloadable on my site) - but they never made for a prominent factor in the game. Ofcourse, I mostly played 1on1 in q2dm3, so it was all part of the tactics to not be in the pipe whenever your opponent's around  :)

I thought the spinning thing just sorta pushed you around, not squished you, unless you were blocking a corner or something O_O

I'd also like to see Q2Dm5 in q3, but not as much as the other q2 maps, Frag Pipe and the one with the rotating cog platform thing are cool.
Also umm, city2 would be nice, it had good DM with its multiple areas joined by t-porters. And double quads always proved to be hectic :)

it squished you if you fell 'between' it and the surrounding edge

How about the Ammo Depot? Does anybody like that map? It may not be much for deathmatch, but it does have that bridge that can be dipped in the lava by buttons. That's always a great feature to cook with. In Quake2 singleplayer mode you can always run across the bridge far enough to get the berserker chasing you, then run back across and hit the button before the berserker can make it across. You can deep fry it every time.

Ok q2dm5 is added to my map list, i'll start making the layout on it someday,
if im not wrong q2dm5 was a quite large dm map?

For the momment my mapping goes quite slow, got lots of thing in my RL to deal with, but i might get some work going on q2dm3 this weekend, the item placment is finished, i just need someone ol q2 player to run around the map, once that's done, things will go much faster.

However im not so satisfied with the layout i've done so far im seriously considering redoing the layout make it a bit wider.

I'll run around the map for you :)
Gladly, in fact, make me your slave of map running... Pweeeeeease? ^_^ :wub:

Lol mkay slave, you might get something to test tomorrow ;)

I've got city64 roughed in but stopped work on it because
nobody wanted to play sewer64 that i did.
I also have base 64 roughed in but it needs some good
textures to use.
you can see city64q3 at http://members.cox.net/~patrick.kennedy/ (http://members.cox.net/~patrick.kennedy/)
it's playable right now but still needs more work yet.
ROADKILL

ROADKILL: city64? Is that name of the map that you're working on in your site? That one which looks like temple and caverns featured in the pics below there?

ya I started out doing sewer64q3 and then city64q3 and
also base64q3.
all three of these maps are made like the original 64 player
maps released for q2.
I quit working on city about 6 months ago when no one
showed any interest in my completed sewer64q3.
my plan was to release all 3 64 player maps for q3.

I was interested :(
I want my base64 and city64 .

I was also interested... I especially want to see a nice remake of Base64

its not because we dont talk about it anymore that we arent interted .
and besides we could use some nice big maps. couldbe cool as a gen-bonuspack and since mappers always get better your next map will ROCK. (reminds me to finish off my map and put it on a site somewhere (dont have own site :( ))

was looking at q2ctf maps...and q2ctf2, also known as Stronghold Opposition, would make a kickass map for Gen conversion...especially with off-hand grapple, techs AND runes (think lithium ctf on crack).

I just thought of a good Earth map idea. Imagine a crumbling town like in Saving Private Ryan except with lots of sandbag forts, barricades, and damaged equipment such as abandoned 88's, crippled tanks, and flipped over trucks. In the middle of town could be a big building with a small Nazi HQ inside, obviously with Hitler posters and other Wolfenstein memorabilia. Maybe you could even throw in a bomb shelter somewhere. I hope this doesn't sound too dumb.

How about a remix of Quake1 Episode1 level3, the one with the bridge above the zombie-lake with shamblers on it. It's one of the maps Quake1 plays as a demo when it starts up, only the demo was set to a lower skill so an ogre appeared in place of the two shamblers.

I thought someone was already working on a Necropolis remake. I vaguely remember someone mentioning it a while ago.

LOST TEMPLE!!!!!

Doom E1M9

If anyone is willing to take this on, it'd be awesome ;D

Yeah I'm sure everybody's thought of that one. Is it already in mappack 2? I still haven't got mappack 2 yet. How about a remake of Mt. Erebus from DOOM episode 3??? Also the Tomb of Terror from Quake episode 3 the Netherworld would be good. I still like the thought of combining and intermeshing maps though. Quake1 and DOOM1 would go together really well. E1M9, the military barracks? That would be good but the original map could use some enhancements. It didn't look like an army barracks to me. Tell reboot to go wild with that one.

Heh well i got my hands full for the momment and i find it hard to get the time for mapping nowdays. anyways i got one map ready for release it won't be released until gen 99c is out. the map im working on now is q2dm5, also im planning to do a quake 2 remix of all DM maps in one.

btw i got some maps that i don't know what to do about, i started to do the layout for q2dm3 but...i just don't like that map dunno if im going to continue my work on that one.

Also i got q1 e1m1 which will be a resurgence map in the future.
Started to do a layout for a doom themed resurgence map, this one is not a remake.

Yeah, it sounds like you're tied down for awhile. If it's a map you don't like, why not tinker with it and make it a little different. For maps themed on DOOM or Quake1, mixing Greco-Roman, Gothic, and Babylonian styled architecture with a bit of a Satanic twist should do the trick. Blood from water fountains, sacrificial altars, that sort of thing. Not that I've seen any of that OUTside of a computer game or anything. Ask Kevin Cloud or Adrian Carmack if they have. Doom used a lot more pagan symbols than I ever heard of before.