Wirehead Studios

Verra nice... VERRA nice.. However, does this mean you intend to do a full complement of powerups? Earth/Doom/Slipgate/Strogg ?

I only ask because if you're going to do it for one, it's the next logical step :x

I think we should contribute some concept art towards this goal, if it were a feasable one to reach before qcon2004 =]

Let's start up a new thread with some ideal concept art, eh? w00t!

I imagine it would be relatively straightforward, strogg with the wings, slipgate's got his runic/stone/artifact theme, doom's got the spheres..

Earth... Earth would require some concept work, yes..

Mayhap the Earth powerups could be like the treasure or something? Chalice, cross, crown... maybe even a spear.

Just an idea.

I like this idea.

The spear of destiny = invul!

if they've got color-coded effect shells on the items, I could deal with that

I managed to whip up a few sketches for the classes. :)

Swords, coins, cups and wands?

adrenalin?

radioactivity?

Spinach?

To clarify:

Color coding

All classes will be restrained to the same color codes when it comes to the main series of powerups. The list is as follows:

Haste - yellow or orange
Regeneration - red
Invisibility - transparancy shader effect
Flight - purple/fuchsia
Quad - blue
Invulnerability - red

Note that there are exceptions, due to originals existing. Any others should not easily sway from this pattern, to avoid confusion. Examples of exceptions: The Doom invisibility and invulnerability, Slipgate's ring of shadows.

The Quad

Although mentioned above, the quad is not eligible for replacement. The reason for this is twofold. First and foremost, the originals for both Quake and Quake II are copyrighted, and we cannot create replica's without endangering the mod. Getting foxed is not an option, so I'm strongly opposed to risking things this way. Secondly, the Generations quad is representative of our mod. It is an overal nod to the combination of different worlds and can be seen as a symbol for the unison they form. It also looks damn cool.

General guidelines

Not to discourage any existing discussion, there are several things that we have to aim for.
Generations is an extensive mod, and it features a great amount of items and several powerups. Most of the items thus far have been converted rather succesfully, and we have had no complaints about confusion as to what an item does. Although I don't fear running into problems when it comes to the powerups, I still say their purpose has to be clear upon sight. The color coding does the bigger part of the job, but the design or symbolism of the item itself should fit too.
For example, using a four leaf clover for Earths invisibility could be somehow defended, but it would never be clear from the start.

Also, themes are important.
If Earth is to get, say, the Spear of Destiny, as the invulnerability item, the other powerups should fit this theme beyond reasonable doubt. Mixing World-War II, Cybertech and Fantasy should be done somewhat sparingly. Note that the topic of this part denotes this as guidelines, so if some idea is particularly nifty, but is the odd one out, that shouldn't always be a problem.

Lastly, although not set in stone, the powerups for Doom and Strogg are pretty much decided upon. Quake III's symbolism in powerups does not go in against Strogg's, so most of the shapes are left intact, but reshaped to fit Stroggs winged powerup design, as can be seen in the 99e thread. For Doom, obviously all powerups shall be orbs, and - though again, nothing is rigidly decided upon - the contents of the orbs will be evillish and dark.

Edit: In other words: It's Earth that needs attention here :]

ahh, *edits*

Spear - Invuln
Chalice - Regen
Cross - Flight
Crown - Invis
Shroud - Haste

All of course with the requisite color-coded shader shells.

As for Doom:

Regen - Revamped megasphere?
Invuln - Doom's mean greenie
Invis - Doom's eyeball thinger?
Flight - wind-effect sphere with an animated bird floating in the middle?
Haste - "jittering" blurry face, distinct eyes, motion-lines?

Honestly to me, the treasure powerups for Earth do not sound like bad ideas, not by far.

Does Strogg have a special Flight powerup in Q2? I don't recall... if not, a stroggish Jetpack will suit him just fine imo (not like the one on an Icarus though - something a bit more suttle)

Doom's Flight could be like a chaotic Cacodemon / Pain Elemental sphere.
Doom's Regen "" fast-shifting red line sphere (attached pic)
Doom's Haste "" noise-filtered sphere (internal pic? I don't know)

More brainstorming later...

I actually like the idea of keeping the quad universal a lot. Besides the obvious practical reasons, I think it adds unity to the game, and I think it's appropriate given that there was no Quad in Doom or Wolfenstein, so I think it's better that the Quad not try to blend in with the other powerups like it's normal earth or doom equipment.

Anyway, I think you guys have come up with good ideas for the Doom powerups. The sphere motif makes things flexible, you could even just stick the regular Q3 icons in spheres and use that if you wanted to. I really like the idea of using a Cacodemon trapped in a sphere for the flight powerup. You could do something different for haste, like put a tornado in it or something.

The tricky thing about the Doom powerups is for the original ones, the color code is all mixed up. First off, the soul sphere is really the megahealth of Doom, so I'm not sure what to do with the megasphere. I guess you could make it the regeneration, but also the color is close to yellow, so if you have a yellow sphere for haste, they could get mixed up. Then, the invisibility is red which could be confused with regen, and the invulnability green instead of red (alteast you can't mix it up with regen). I think to keep true to the original items, the color code would have to be completely adandoned for Doom powerups. I guess you could still use purple for flight, but that's about it.

One last note about the Doom spheres- for the ones with faces, I don't think you have to render them entirely in full 3D, I think it's cooler and spookier if they're always looking at you, so just doing the front side would be fine.

I don't know about the earth powerups. I think it would be hard to color code the treasure items without making it look goofy, like having a neon red spear. I don't have any ideas though. I'm guessing probably something more like the strogg powerups would work well.

Hey Tekhead were you thinking something like this?

That one's cool but how about a lost soul in there, shouldn't fill the entire orb IMO...

Gnam: Yes! I was thinking of something just like that :)

Genialus: The Lost Soul is already in use in Gen ;)

You know Both the Q1 symbol and the Q2 symbol is already IN quake3. since they are there whould we violate copyrights? (there are some textures that use the "Q" and there's even a "Q" under rangers foot.)

For earth, at least partially recreating the valuables has my preference. It has lots of nostalgia value. Ofcourse, since a 'cross' and a 'treasure chest' are hardly logically linkable to their effects (the chalice for example, is more easily understood, but far fetched, nonetheless)

Note too, that flight is just about the least important powerup known to gladiatorkind. It appears in 1 (ONE) official Quake III DM map, and in none of the regular Generations maps (barring maybe one or two that I was bound to miss thank you Tekhead but the point remains valid! :)). It it also kind of senseless in play, although you don't hear me saying it's not fun ;]
The point is: I'm not going to spend an awful lot of time developing it. Complexely animated models are not an option, as far as I'm concerned.

I think that the Gen-Quad that is in place right now is the key symbolic icon of the whole mod. Replacing it  would do gen no good, as it'd break down part of the greatness which this mod has already acheived.

Tabun: Flight appears in Q-Fraggel :)

Perhaps giving the Earth powerups some kind of slight glow effect to resemble what they are. Chalice with a red glow to resemble regeneration... Cross with a white glow to resemble invisibility... I dunno.

Might run in to some problems with the glow idea for the two 'reds' (regen/invuln)... but I think seeing a Spear of Destiny would kinda seem like it's more powerful than seeing a chalice or something.

As for the treasure chest... yea, that's why I left it out. I was going to leave out the crown as well, but I tossed it in there anyway. I do like Angst's idea for a shroud though.

I am a little confused about the earth soldier. I thought it was wolfenstine, based on wolfenstian 3D.

So it should be WW2 type stuff. Seems to be now a general earth soldier, which is fine by me, but is not really a generation anymore.

I don't really care, as I'll play this game whatever, and am not complaining as I can't mesh etc myself, but is is WW2 or just an earthman who uses old weapons? :thumb:

Wolf3D is where I got my idea for the 'treasure' type powerups. If you've played Wolf3D, there's quite a lot of rooms that are filled with Nazi trasure... treasure chests, crosses, chalices, and crowns.

As for the style of Earth's items... I recall the Generations story. BJ lived up to the start of the Doom Wars due to a toxin or something that slowed his aging considerably. I'm not entirely sure as to how the generation got titled 'Earth', but I'll venture a guess.

All the other generations have something more to them... Hellspawn, Alien monsters from other dimensions, and human/technology halfbreeds. 'Earth' was all human... human vs human (with the occasional zombie). Right here on Earth.. no other outside world was involved in the take-over attempt.

I'm completely in agreement on the Wolf3D nostalgia effect concerning the treasure items. Hell, when the sounds would get adjusted to match the old *boooing*-*tingdinglingdidinggg* type stuff I'd be rolling over the floor in my own nostalgia.. ehr.. well something like that anyway. (ed. take it easy, gramps)

I'm less enthusiast about the WWII theme. I know that is what our fella and the whole Generation is coming from, not arguing that. It's just the saturation of the market, WWII wise, at the moment. Look around in any game store or site and it seems you can't even count the amount of WWII setting games on your hands and feet combined. MP40's everywhere, soldiers shouting Scheisse! as if the Germans had made it part of their combat training. It's just getting old. The less our stuff is like the rest out there, the better. That is also why I'm so fond of our mortar, flamer, sniper and gat designs. They're not typical. They still fit the theme, but you don't get stuff looking like that on PlanetWorldWarIIGame.com :]

On the Gen/Quad issue ...

*straps on blue titanium armor*

how about styling it to fit each class, but keeping the "G" theme throughout?

*ducks*

I'm glad you mentioned the sounds Tab, cause that's something I was thinking about the other day... Picking up medkits and health vials from Doom just isn't the same without the special sound effect. Also, it might be cool to have different sound effects for teleporters; like Load of Useless Bloody Loonies just doesn't quite feel like Phobos when you step through  a teleporter and it doesn't go "weeeeoooooosh!". I don't know whether you would make it set individually for the teleporter on a per-map basis (which would be more appropriate, but more complicated) or just make different teleport sounds for each class, but it would be cool either way.

Anyway, the different colored glows for the Wolf treasure is a good idea. For Doom's haste, maybe it should be an 'adrenaline pack" and use a medkit with a yellow logo...we're running out of colors to stick on spheres.

- /me uses the stick of forceful aneurysms +10 and strikes everyone firmly. Step away from the Quad.

- Doom's haste will be an orb. Also, I do not see why we deviate from the topic so. This is about Earth's powerups.. Sure, Slipgate's runes could use some brainstormage, but like I said: Doom & Strogg's stuff is pretty much covered.

- My bad for bringing the sounds up, but here's the scope: Class based sounds for just about anything feasible will probably be added later. The main problem here, apart from it needing code, is that we do not have a skilled sound engineer. I've gone out of my way to acquire skill in modelling, since skinning didn't cut it for Gen, but I'm afraid this one is out of my reach ;]
Patience and word of mouth should help us here..

Focus people! :]

:offtopic:

Making sounds is perhaps the only thing to catch my interest as far as the modding community goes. I firmly believe that the way something sounds is almost as important as the way something looks. And besides... I SERIOUSLY miss the weapon/ammo pickup sounds from q1. :)

Coding.. no. Modelling.. nah. Skinning.. huh uh.

Point me in the direction of a good program to make sounds with and I'll try and learn it. As for how long it'll hold my interest.. that's a different story. (You know about my mapping right? I have a map still being worked on..and I started it about 2 years ago).

 :offtopic:

:offtopic:
Well, sound editing has lots of aspects. Doing voices obviously requires voice actors, while basic FX editing is perhaps the oddest job I've ever known. It's all about knowing how to create desired effects, using whatever you can get your hands on. The metal sheet wobble to imitate thunder, broken glass and gravel for footstep effects spring to mind.
Ofcourse, you'll need a 'studio' to properly record sounds. A soundproof room and proper recording tools at your service are a prerequisite to get acceptable sounds, as far as I know.

But that's not all, ofcourse. After recording sounds, you will need to edit them. A simple sound editing tool that I use is CoolEdit Pro (2), which allows the basic stuff (amplitude envelopes, sample conversion, echo effects), and that's not too expensive. Again, you have to sort of know what you're doing here, and when you do, you probably know a lot more about it than I'll ever do.
I'll never understand how one just goes and finds out that recording a staplegun used on a set of binders wrapped in tin foil can, with the proper pitch, imitate the gunfire of an exact weapon type, underwater. Or something like that anyway. My bet is keen ears + insanity.
:offtopic:

:offtopic:
Friend of mine does sounds and music, I'll see if I can get ahold of him next I'm in madison.
I don't know about teleporters, but the rest of the stuff I think we can do, I'll just have to whip up an original sound library so we have something to work from.
:offtopic:

I think we discussed this a while back, the Strogg flight can make use of the bird logo found on the Strogg flags in Q2.  It's already got wings, so that's a no brainer.

As for the Gen quads, right now we have a universal Q3-ish Gen quad logo.  We cannot use the original Q1 and Q2 logos due to copyright and trademark concerns (yes, they are actually registered trademarks of Id Software, Inc, not just intellectual property) what we can do is make Q1-ish and Q2-ish versions of the Generations logo.  We can make that into anything we want since that is our logo, after all.

As for the Earth powerups, I'm all for the treasure globe idea.  We already started on this theme with the megahealth being patterened after the 1UP from Wolf3D.  It's always good to stick to the roots on this, and we patterened the health after the medkits and food platters from Wolf, so it only makes sense.  Here's my take on a few of them.

Quad Damage - Generations G in sphere with Earth quad shader effect
Alternate Quad - Spear of Destiny
Regeneration - chalice (Grail)
Invisibility - crown (fades in and out)
Invulnerability - cross (Holy protection)
Flight - winged staff
Haste - Spear of Destiny? treasure chest?

The flight would be a new item, but I was thinking something along the lines of the Phoenix Rod from Heretic visually.   Basically just a golden staff with wings.  You get the idea.  As for colorizing the items, I don't think colorizing them like Q3 does is completely necessary.  We could use glow shells overlaying the gold or else color the gems on the items with the apropriate effect color.  I think it would be fairly easy to tell them apart.  Those are my suggestions anyway.

Personally, I say we leave the Quad the same for all classes for the reasons mentioned above. Adjusting it in style could always be done later, and IMO detracts from the symbolic strength of the model.

I already stated that I would like to minimize any confusion when it comes to powerups, hence the color scheme. It would work if a general theme incorporates said colors, but only if it's easily obvious. Just a bunch of jewels slapped on would only work for me if they were either sizeable or somehow glowing.
Another, somewhat related issue pops to mind. In Quake2, the megahealth glowed slightly, which made it a lot easier to notice than ours is right now. Perhaps that would be a good idea to add  in?

Didn't all the items in Q2 pulsate lightly? I seem to remember that effect on ammo as well.

I agree.

Regarding the Quad... I'd love to see it done in each Generations' style, but leaving it the way it is is also fine. Leaving it the same is almost like saying it's the one thing that every Generation has in common... yes, they are all unique in their own way... but they are all a part of the arenas eternal regardless.

As for being able to tell the Earth powerups apart, that isn't the problem. It's not too hard to tell a cross from a crown or chalice... but knowing which is which. The color of the gems could help a bit, but I don't think it would be enough unless the gems are extremely easy to see. Hence why I suggested a glowing effect instead.

Yes, the Q2 items had a slight light pulsation.  This was a coded render effect for all items that is no longer present in Q3.  I think it's something we can shaderize down the line.  Weapons are also a concern though.  Some weapon models are currently shared between level spawn and player render, and having a funky glowing gun in someone's hand isn't right.  We can split the third person and world spawn models and write some shaders later.

I personally wouldn't mind having only powerups and other special items, such as the adrenaline/medikit, glow that way. The other items and weapons probably even look better without it, and don't need to be seen in a quick glance, as one might do when deciding to make a run for the Q2DM1 MH room for instance..

I'm with Tab on this one.

Hrm... Doom's Haste as an orb, huh...

If Quad stays the Generations quad, I guess Doom's berserk pack gets wiped out by this mod... since the Doom guy is so brutally fast already, why couldn't you just make his haste a smaller boost in speed and a heavy boost in fist power, in the form of the classic berserk pack? At least then we'd sort-of have our berserk back. I don't know that the balance would be altered too heavily, since Doom would have to get in melee range to see effect out of the damage upper.

-UltraMagnus

The berserk is in. It replaces the medikit.

Yes, if you've played .99d on any map with a medkit on it normally you'd notice the little evil black health box that's been in there for, oh, several months now.  Of course, if you'd have checked our Powerups (http://www.wireheadstudios.org/gallery/view_album.php?set_albumName=Items-and-Powerups) gallery you'd have seen the Berserk Pack (http://www.wireheadstudios.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Items-and-Powerups&id=doom_items1) and the accompanying Berserk Effect. (http://www.wireheadstudios.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Items-and-Powerups&id=berserk_view)

Hey Ultra Magnus try starting a bot match in Q3dm13 as Doom class. You can find the beserk pack next to the grenade launcher spawn, and since the map is pretty tight you can go on fist killing sprees pretty easily. It's fun.

Replacing both the medkit and the quad with the berserk pack is an interesting idea ( I've thought of it myself before), but I don't know how well it would work. I think it might turn Doom class into a "quad rabbit" because you could use a rocket or something to get him before he can get close, and snag an easy quad. It might be possible after some balancing tweaks and planing, but I think as it is now it would just ruin the consitency between classes. Quad is supposed to be the one 'universal' item every class has (even if they didn't have it in their original game).

Quad is quad. Balance is hard enough as it is. Don't count on it happening :p

With the Strogg invulnerability out of the way (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/previ..._strogg_pu5.jpg (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/preview_strogg_pu5.jpg)), it's time to think about the other strogg powerups.

It all started as a simple modelling job, and simply applying the quake3-shader on the newly modelled powerups was the plan.
But now other possibilities are worth exploring. At this point, several things should be noted.
All strogg powerups (aside from the invul.) are embossed symbols. None of them feature any details aside from their general shape. The wings provide their Strogginess.

The options:

a) The entire model, including wings, is shaderized as the quake 3 objects are.
b) The entire model, including wings, is skinned with a texture like seen on the invulnerability wings (see link above if you don't know what that is)
c) The centerpiece of the model is shaderized like the quake 3 objects are, while the wings are skinned with the stroggish texture, colorized to match the powerup's function.

At the moment, i'm leaning towards option C myself. The exception is the invisibility, for which I would apply A.

Speak.

I vote C, although it depends what the shader looks like. It could look kind of odd to have these textures strogg wings, and then have a center object that doesn't seem to match and looks completely different, so it almost looks like 2 different objects. Likewise I think the C option provides a consistency between the Q3 items and the Q2 items that isn't as present in the other options.

B: Tradition above all else, at least as far as themes go. The classical look is what helps make this mod what it is, and imo it'd be wise not to deviate from it too far.

I agree with tek then B is my choice.

I too feel B as being the choice to make... mostly for reasons stated in Gnam's post.

I just can't picture the centerpiece being shadered like the q3 objects... while the wings are textured all Stroggish... without it looking out of place.

EDIT: I can picture the invisibility powerup being done in the fashion of A... and it would fit the theme of the powerup... but that's up to you.

I'm with B, with the exception of the invisibility since the ghosty shader will look good there and Q2 never had an invisibility.  To be frank I've never liked the Q3 "circus clown" way of colorizing everything.  I like colors, and I like rainbows, but there is a limit.  Energy effects, yeah, we like those.  Nifty shaders make things look nifty where appropriate, but let's not overdo it.  Our focus is, and remains, old-school so let's stick with old-school wherever we can.  Once someone grabs a powerup there's very little doubt of what it does anyway.  The announcer pretty much handles that, so unless you're deaf AND stupid you'll get the general idea the first time you grab it. :)

I like C, if the shader is subtle.

Otherwise, B

I vote B. They are powerups for Strogg, so they should look like Strogg's powerups, textured and not shadered. That includes Invisibility.

I'm convinced. Tekhead is right, and a grainy texture is definately more stroggish than the shaders. It is also very hard to get them subtle. Their power-uppish effect can probably be enhanced by a glow shader instead, much like the items in Quake 2 did.
The one exception will be the invisibility. It is a much more subtle shader effect than the others, and looks spiffy. There is also no viable alternative. White would not look the part, I fear. In any case, if it looks off, it can easily be changed, later.

For the rest, B it is. Soon, I shall have a proper skin for the flight, regeneration and haste.

I've also worked on slipgate powerup design for a bit:

(http://www.xs4all.nl/~zia/preview_slipgate_pu1.jpg)
(http://www.xs4all.nl/~zia/preview_slipgate_pu2.jpg)

The Regen item is pretty much done. I've always been fond of Egyptian symbology, and it can easily be given a gothic touch for utter Slipgateness. It also leaves little to the imagination, as to the function.
For flight, some kind of wing-resembling rune, or perhaps the directions-rose in the middle. I'm not sure about that one, so any ideas are as always, welcome.
The haste is sortof a lightning bolt with a runic touch. Self explanatory, I should say.
The beserk kit is a less obvious. It was based on the strength rune used in some QW mods. That is also not a definite.

Going with the runes is definitely the best way to go with Slipgate's powerups. The only problem you run into with that is when you start playing CTF -- Slippy's "techs" were the runes.

If class-based techs aren't even being considered, then it's a non-issue. Just use the runes commonly used for autodoc (Regeneration), haste (Haste? No kidding...)... the strength rune for Berserk is a stretch. Anyone really thinking old school would pick that up and be thinking permanent 2x power on all weapons.

If class-based techs are in the work... I guess it's time to hit the drawing board for everything except Invul and Invis. O_o

Since Berserk replaces the Medkit, but Quake had nothing like it, why not follow the example set by the other classes that currently do? Arena sees a needle, Doom sees a black Medikit, and Strogg sees his Adrenaline -- all health items. Why not go the same route for Slipgate and give him another health item for his Berserk?

The runes are not exact copies of the tech designs of which I spoke, so there won't be much of a prob there. It'll all be intuitive enough.
I'm not about to make class-related techs. If anyone else is up for it, they might be made. I really don't think that would be a good idea though. the amount of models & skins that have to be loaded is insane as it is, and another set of items that need 4 times the data, with so little to gain, would be madness imo.

You're right, Makou, a meditkit type solution would be more consistent with the rest of the classes. It would also indicate a less powerful item, which is correct.
The reason I sketched it up as a rune, is because it seems to be a magical effect, quake-magical, if you catch my drift. Then again, there's absolutely no reason to assume this, so it might as well be an adrenaline shot.
I'll sketch up a medikit-type item for it.

I like the single-wing runic symbol for the slipgate flight, and so does Gina. ;)

I personally like the right-most concept design for the Slipgate Flight power-up Tabun.  It's simplistic and immediately recognizable.

Going back to Earth's power-ups, I do realize that you're trying to avoid the WW2 theme, but I think a jet-pack would best suit Earth for a Flight power-up.  I am all for the treasures from Wolfenstein-3D representing power-ups, but at the same time, I think soley having treasures for the power-ups is a bad idea.   It'll clash with the design of Earth's armor and weaponry too much methinks.

On to the rest of my suggestions...

Invulnerability:  Spear of Destiny
Regeneration:  Cross or Chalice

Invisibility is a "toughie."  My first thoughts would be that of a cloaking device, but I know you also want to avoid the "cybertech" theme.  Might I suggest a shield or a coat-of-arms then?  Possbily even a cloak of some kind...

Haste is also a "toughie," but I have an odd suggestion for it.  How about a vial containing a yellow liquid or perhaps a needle containing yellow liquid instead?

I hope this helps you out some. :)

Well for Slipgate stuff I like the single wing for flight, and the Ankh for Regen is fine by me.  I think for a Berserk powerup why not take the small health boxes and color them black with an evil glowing red cross?  In other words, just a reskin of the small ( +5 ) health boxes?  That seems a straight-forward solution.  I can scale the item slightly for emphasis if we like as well.

Class-based techs are out of the question, or we're really going to start confusing people.  The effects are universal per class, and techs were only featured in Q1 and Q2.  We already have a rune for the Slipgate armor shard, so we'll just stick with a universal set of models based around the Q2 design for techs.

Invisibility for earth could be a 'stelthsuit' designed to be mat black like the plane.

Earth haste could be a skateboard kind of thing, with jets.

Adrenalin could be a BIG choc bar. (candy bar for the people across the water)

How about a viking helmet for beserk?

That jetpack idea is brilliant, if you ask me thats the way to go with the Earth class. A sort of 50's-60's science fiction theme along the lines of the Fallout games.  I think it would work, because both Wolf games have a lot of that sort of stuff - Gatling guns, mad scientists, retro-mechanoid zombie mutants etc etc.

My only objection  to the B option is this; the strogg texturing works on the invulnerability because it's an actual object; a skull. However, the other powerups don't have real objects; they're essentially just 3D icons, that have to use bright colors. If you try to use realistic texturing, than you end up with "realistic" neon yellow metal texture. I think, somehow, when something is brightly colored it's much more beleivable as a light or some kind of glowing device than purple/yellow rusted metal. Thats my 2 cents.

Although I recognize your concern, I don't fully agree. The centerpieces are indeed embossed symbols. However, so are the wings, and the texture works fine for that. If you want to see it in effect, check out the 99e thread.
A Regenerations item is on its way, and Haste has been completed already. Although, like Tekhead said, they are not entirely stroggish in execution (since neither colours nor symbolism was used for items like this in Quake2), remember that these objects never existed in Quake 2 in the first place. Their effects are rather unStroggish in themselves, so to speak. Anyway, the current designs work for me, and apart from Quad and Invulnerability, the other powerups do not feature prominently, which should reduce the struggling of the opposition ;].

For slippy stuff, think of the armor shard already in Generations. That kind of feel is what I'm currently going for, although I agree it's hard to picture either sketches or unskinned models with a skin, unless you're a skinner ofcourse ;]

Stepping away from the Strogg stuff... for Q1, I think that the choice for the ankh to represent regeneration is nothing short of excellent. The symbolism in it and the fact that it also fits in with the Q1 gothic-ish theme makes me think that it's the perfect choice =]

As for the others... they're nice sketches? =] (but I'm having a hard time seeing them fitting in)

The ankh for Q1 regen is an awesome idea and fits extremely well with the theme, as previously stated... I can also see the lightning rune fitting in, but it would have to be textured right.... which I'm SURE you can easily accomplish.

As for flight... I must agree with Tek. But I also can't think of anything Slippy could use for flight at all. A Scrag symbol?

If all else fails though, I'd go with Con and the others... the single-wing rune.

As it looks, the Ankh and Haste are in. Haste needing some model work, and indeed, an appropriate texture to work. For now I'm going with the single wing-like rune. Remember, flight is one of those things some people aren't even ever going to see ;] - If it looks acceptable, it's good enough for me, for a change.

is the ring gonna be used for the inviso power item!?  :?:

Ehr yes. The Ring of Shadows will remain the Ring of Shadows :]

I was under the impression we already had a Ring model, but I'm not sure about that. If not, that is about the easiest item to whip up. Perhaps with a slight wink to Lord of the Rings, plus a whole lot of metallic shader should do the trick nicely.

no more, no less please =]

We do not currently have a ring model, so yes, we need one.  As for the LOTR reference, well, I think that's what Id had in mind when the came up with the thing in the first place.  You hear those evil whispers while it's working in Q1? *shudder*

That's what i think they shold be...
Good old Wolfenstein items!!
http://www.wolfenstein3d.co.uk/items.htm (http://www.wolfenstein3d.co.uk/items.htm)
http://www.geocities.com/grindmachine2000/Items.html (http://www.geocities.com/grindmachine2000/Items.html)
http://diehardwolfers.areyep.com/bunker/items.htm (http://diehardwolfers.areyep.com/bunker/items.htm)
http://www.mac-archive.com/wolfenstein/weapons.html (http://www.mac-archive.com/wolfenstein/weapons.html)

The helmet is a good item for armor, but i don't think the armor jacket looks good for BJ because he didn't has a armor in Wolf 3D. But maybe you can get some inspiration in the RTCW items...
Keep up that good work Tabun!! :thumb:

Seeing as Slipgate's powerups all seem to be mythological symbols (pentagram of protection, ring of shadows and now the ankh of regeneration), I'll recommend for his flight a (large-winged) caduceus.

(http://altreligion.about.com/library/graphics/symbols/caduceus.jpg)

sources:
Image - http://altreligion.about.com/library/gloss...efscaduceus.htm (http://altreligion.about.com/library/glossary/symbols/bldefscaduceus.htm)
Info - http://www.wordsources.info/mercury.html (http://www.wordsources.info/mercury.html)
Info - http://www.gillingham.com.au/hermes.html (http://www.gillingham.com.au/hermes.html)

What do you think? Sound like a good idea?

Sure, why not. It'll be a simplified version, because I'm not going to spend a full day modelling pretty snakes that no-one will ever see close up, for more than a millisecond ;]
But the jist is good. Intuitive, symbolic, perhaps a bit hard to rune-ize, but I'll find a way.

A final note: Mercury is definately a fag, there. :]

Besli: We're not talking items here. If you know the mod, you must realize that all items are in, except for the powerups - hence this thread ;]
Whether you like shards or no, they're a part of Quake 3 Arena, and stripping them, just because Wolf3D didn't have them, is a definite no-no. Balance first, extreme nostalgia later. Using treasure-bonus-like-items for powerups has been suggested earlier in the thread, and is seriously being considered.

How about that Idea of funky blast-from-the-past tech?

Because you could probably use a mixture of both, where one makes more sense than the other

For example, if haste could either be a time machine or a golden stopwatch, the watch would no doubt be more recognisable in its purpose (just as examples, mind). The battle suit could be a cross of protection, which would make some sense, or you could go nuts and build an updated version of the original Robo-Hitler suit, complete with a transparent helmet to stick the players headmodel in :thumb: ....

Unless you dont like the inconsistency of course, but I dont think it would matter much. I think it would be hillarious watching that crudely animated suit running and jumping around with dual gats :)

Don't count on that suit just yet. Although the idea is kind of funny, it would also imply that the player would lose a lot of his/her mobility. Either that, or it would just look.. wrong. The idea is noted, but for now at least, it'll probably be the spear of destiny. Best and clearest reference to the Wolf3D/SOD legend ;]

The "Hitlerbot" is not going to be a powerup.  However, that could be very feasible for an Earth Soldiers player model once external player model support is added and a proper SDK written so the upcoming new player stances can be properly added.  Earth Soldiers are the only class more heavily armored than Strogg Troopers, so it does kind of fit.  I guess TankJr would have some old-school competition to contend with? ;)

Well, I've done something for Earth:

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/preview_earth_pu1.jpg)

A simple & clean Spear of Destiny, that could glow moodily.

I'm thinking of using the cross, very much with the same design of the Wolf3D version, for Regeneration.

I'm still drawing a blank for the others, although I haven't given it much thought. Perhaps the Chalice could work for Haste..

Great work Tabun, Love the models and the skins for these items. It will really give Gen a nice fresh feel, well done.

The spear looks like it could be used as a bayonette for the gats!  ^_^

hehehe , yea . its funny

Hmm, yeah, it DOES look a bit like the gat, maybe a solid pedestal holding the shaft with a pseudo-volumetric light coming from where the shaft meets the pedestal?

As for the other powerups, I figure I can quote myself :P

Some slight modifications, but ideas I had were as follows:

Suggestions of course, but I figured the Chalice at least would work best as regen. Last Crusade anyone? :P

It could even have (red) sloshing contents, that chalice. Although ofcourse, the actual effect of a jewelry encrusted version of the cup has effects that I would not describe as 'regenerative' as such. Not if we are indeed talking the Last Crusade :]

A Crown for invis might just work.. perhaps with a translucent head under it?

No suggestions for haste? To be honest, I see no reason why the chalice and the cross both couldn't be:
- Haste
- Flight
- Invis, or
- Regeneration

Since they don't actually have clearly defined meanings per se.
Either way, that still leaves one powerup unassigned. I don't think the shroud thing would work, as a model, although the idea is nice enough.

I think the spear looks fine... it might look a bit like a gat, but hey... I didn't notice until someone else said it. I think a skin would fix that anyway.

As for the last item... might as well keep with the 'trasure' theme. A sceptre maybe... or just a fancy looking, bejewled coin... again, I'm just lobbing ideas out there. So whatever.. heh.

Spear for Invuln
Chalace for Regen (red jewels, red liquid?)
Cross for Haste? (hey, it's gold)
Crown for Invis? (with appropriate ghost effect)

I still say a scepter with wings (ala Heretic Phoenix Rod) would work for flight just fine.  Give it a purple eye jewel and maybe some purple jewels on the handle.  I have a good idea what this might look like, so if you want I can whip up a sketch.  Sure, we're making that one up, and yes I'm being a little egocentric here, but I don't think a treasure chest really translates and that's all that's left. :)

I don't think the scepter would look right as purple, nor should the chalace be completely red.  I think sticking with gold treasures and color-coding the effects and jewels is a bit more reasonable for keeping them looking treasure-ish.  What we could do as opposed to or in addition to coloring the jewels is use a voobing shader that gives a color-coded glow effect, so it pulsates with the color shell.  I think that could look very nifty and unique and make the "treasures" appear to be a bit more magical in nature.

Things I'm going for at the moment:

Invulnerability: Spear (of Destiny) - hey, it's modelled, and it WON'T look like a 'gat' ingame.. sjeesh.
Regeneration: Chalice (with some reds in the jewelry and whatnot)
Haste: Cross, sure, why not.
Invisibility: Crown
Flight: WWII/Art-Deco style eagle. Perhaps on a rod, perhaps not. Depends on what looks right.

Here's what I sketched up:

(http://www.planetquake.com/wirehead/phoenix/pics/earth/flight_staff.jpg)

Yeah, that's a direct sketching from Heretic, but hey, it's a concept!  A more detailed and realistic bird motif would work nicely also.  Here's a sketch of a stylized bird motif I did quite a long while back that I've never done anything with.  The head is not turned sideways because it was originally going to be part of a sword hilt:

(http://www.planetquake.com/wirehead/phoenix/pics/earth/bird.jpg)

I'm not saying "model this" for either of these, just giving some additional ideas.  I really don't think a German eagle with the Nazi wreath, like they had on the flags, is good for a flight artifact.  The bird, yes.  Swastika, no.  The only power of flight the Nazis had was in the Luftwaffe.  All their treasures were stolen anyway, so I think a non German design would be more in tune with the treasure idea.  Maybe even the Egyptian wings of Ra is a thought?

I'd never put a swastika on a powerup, don't worry about that :]
I'm all for making a little fun of 'the nazi', but I'm not in favor of promoting that shite.

The Egyptian wings idea sounds good to me. Like I said before, I'm very partial to their art.

(http://www.moonlightmysteries.com/egypt/details/JTP1604GA.jpg)

(http://www.lovethosegifts.com/products/full/4241.jpg)

(http://www.dwmdesigns.com/images/Dwm3big.jpg)
Winged scarab.. pretty.

(http://www.egyptianbiz.com/Papyrus/papyrus_wings.jpg)

A combination of several of the above, including Phoenix's posted images, should be enough inspiration for now :]

A winged sceptre works for me. The wings could be purple-ish, easy enough, for that flight-like effect.

*drools*

Makes me nostalgic for simpler times.  Nice art pieces there Tab!  :thumb:

dude, pho, thats a pretty badass design for a sword hilt.

Ever send it to a swordmaker for a cost estimate on a sword or something like that???

/me likes swords

that scarab has something from hexen 2  ( nice )

So, Earth is a combination of Wolf3D, Heretic and Hexen now? =]

all i remember, was the phoenix staff was a badass weapon....

I can picture the items as wolf3D treasures, no problem. The 'Staff' or whatever Flight will be eventually, will fit in nicely. As long as you can picture nazi's snagging it from a digsite, under ambient evil chanting and with lightning flashes in the background (and more clich?s), it's all good to me.

You forgot the creepy music and the guy with the hat.  :D

O.o

That top pendant or the scarab would be AWESOME :D

Heh, not a serious idea, I just gave it for comical value ;)

Although I might try and make one saying that...

Well, nothing that'll get your blood curdling in your veins, but still, progress...

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/preview_earth_pu2.jpg)

-----

Edit: I just noticed the shape looks a little odd from this angle.. To avoid misconception, it still resembles this very much:

Certainly not a carpenter's cup, but if anyone knows the story of Joseph of Arimethia you might know of the chalice made to hold the grail.  Besides, we're not playing Indiana Jones here.  I think it looks like a good "regeneration" cup. :)

The actual story of the "Holy Grail" might be much more like the DaVinci Code suggests, too. I just picked this one because it both looks like the Wolf3D version, and it can have rubies :]

So that I don't get into a long, offtopic rant about that book, let's just say the model looks nice, whatever may have inspired it.

Looking good!!

In a belated response to you, Pho: I think the voob/shell effect would be very nice. Especially a subtle aura-like effect would really make them seem like magic booty.

And, just a small update for you:

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/preview_earth_pu3.jpg)

Nowhere near done yet, ofcourse, but you should be able to see where it's going :]

Heavenly

ohhhh pretties :D

Scarab staff.  Nifty!  :thumb:

now only hope for an assasin class so we can paly hexen2 in quake3 .
J/K

anyway , nice model tab I bet the skin on it will look cool .

Not going as fast obviously, but here's some more Earth WIP stuff:

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/preview_earth_pu4.jpg)

woot! tab rocks the house! :D

Items fit for royalty

Hail to the king, baby!

Ok dudes. Me say da idea of spear of destiny is cool, since it resembles some crap of ultimate power, I say it shall give ya full invul & haste, for the other powerups, me thinkin' of rocketeer, ya know dat movie of the guy who found dat rocket back pack in the middle of WWII, and that thing grants him flight, it should be somethin' like it, and regen should be a grail, ya know, like tha nazi treasures of Wolf3D, a holy grail, or something; and the spear of destiny I imagine it to be like the starman spear for the dudes that are in the DC Comics thing. :thumb:

Yup, ya right

Superb work so far, Tab. Love the winged scepter idea for flight. And that type of aura type glow that was mentioned is what I meant when I tried describing it earlier in the thread... but failed miserably. 'Aura' just never came to mind. :)

Tabun, the crown looks great, and so as the ceptre :D can't wait to play .99e

JLMode: what should and should not be, is, fortunately, up to us to decide ;]
As you can see, we've spent the last few weeks brainstorming about the best way to tackle every set of class powerups. For earth, we decided upon a Wolf3D-treasure theme, wherein all powerups resemble a 'magical valuable item' of some sort. Stuff like a jetpack or winged boots simply do not fit in there, and since the only thing left to be modelled is the golden cross (for haste), it is extremely unlikely that we shall change our minds in the near future.

[Kuzader]: Please stop attaching irrelevant 'funny' images. We have an off-topic board for that kind of stuff, and it does nothing more than distract people.

There, that's been my bit of forum-policing - now be gentle and behave!
Thanks for the kind words, It's tough to keep working on stuff with my busy graduation project schedule tying me down at the moment. Ofcourse, I will do my best to keep supplying models and skins to pimp in here.

Well, it's the most boring of the earth powerups, modelwise, but here's the cross.
Don't worry, it'll look quite alright with a skin, I'm sure ;]

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/preview_earth_pu5.jpg)

By the way, what would you guys say about a 'medikit' for Earth in the shape of a nice Brand Whiskey-bottle?

Edit: Yes, beserk, indeed. :]

Are you referring to the berserk? If so, make sure it's crappy alcohol. I can just see blaze getting pissed at the bad booze. ;)

Yup, I'm up for some cheap plonk - alcohol dulls the pain! ;)

I think we should take a little look at RTCW too. On RTCW, treasure items exist. So, why not put berserk has a goldbar or a viking's head? If you don't like my idea, why not putting berserk has the treasure trunk? Although i like the whisky powerup idea...

Couldn't whiskey be interpreted as Duke Nukem symbolism? I don't know...

As I recall, tequilla is the drink of choice for the fighting drunk.

Well as much as I despise alcohol, Con has a good point, and I can see some humorous merit in this.  Choice of poison at your discretion. :cheers:

Or you could go with another medical item like has been done for the other classes. The booze is a funny idea, though. Whichever you run with works just fine. :)

Since I'm going slower than 'usual', here's another W.I.P. of the Earth Flight powerup:

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/preview_earth_pu8.jpg)

Still working on parts of it, mostly the parts hidden from view in that shot, mind you ;]

Take your time my friend.  I've gone from "Flank" to "All Stop" the last few days myself.  Being sick sucks.  :)~  

O.O

 :thud:

Time for me to make everyone's favorite quote...

"Whoa" - Neo

Oh! Wow! Flight looks nice!  :thumb:

Oh man...Tabun, that Scarab Staff looks friggin awesome!  The art style is incredible!!!

ACK!  I can't wait till .99e...it's gonna be awesome.

Nice flight! :thumb:

I'm with Angst on the alcohol - a nice big sqare bottle of tequila - potent AND it tastes like shit! :)~

Alcohol muscles, baby... WRAAAAAAAA! :evil:

Personally, I dunno about the whole alcohol thing... but, it's not my choice to make.

In light of a recent developement, it's time to revive this thread. Doom needs Regen, Haste, and Flight!

So here are a few I can think of that have either been suggested by someone else, or came to mind on my own:

For Regeneration:
1) A beating human heart. Not the cutesy Valentines Day thing, but the kind beating in your chest.
2) The Doom Megasphere. There's no other use for it in Gen, and I think it would be nice to have it appear in some form.

For Flight:
1) A bird's head.
2) A Cacodemon.

For Haste:
Hell if I know.

Indeed. Resuming brainstorm, started in Generations Betatesting forum.

For haste:
1. a swirling cloud of particles and shockwaves a-la LSoV.
2. some kind of lightning effect going on inside the orb, q3 shaders
3. A (burning) arch-vile head


Alright peeps, here's the general scope of things. Doom uses orbs, and only orbs, for powerups, so what is being thought up here, are the _contents_ of those. The throbbing heart idea was introduced by Phoenix, and I can picture it working quite well. As for flight, a cacodaemon/pain element might work, but then again, the same goes for the lost soul.

The fun thing about this is that there's not really a set theme for the things inside the orbs, as long as they're moody and demonic. Hell, I'm not even sure if the invisibility fits the second description, anyway.

Invisibility will be the blue iris will it not?

Apart from that one, there was a sort of consistent theme involving heads/skulls. The soulsphere was a pulsing face, invunlerability was an endless cycle of a skull closing its mouth on the last skull, the megasphere was a Mancubus head that looked like it was stuffing its face etc. Maybe carry on with the random heads theme? Maybe flight could be a Romero head with some swirling clouds around it, heh.

Also, you could imagine that the essence of what is portrayed in the sphere is somehow trapped in there for anything to use. So if you use an archie head for the haste, make it really angry and frantic as if it's livid about its fate :D

One of my ideas for Haste is to have some demonis face with big teeth like its about to bite your head off, except the orb displaces itself, shifting slightly all around in aggrivation.

Another idea is to have it look like you're flying through stars (kinda like the screensaver)

Another idea is to depict a hurricane, kind of like the big spot on Jupiter. That could be cool.

I really like that hurricane Idea, reminds me of a cool simulation of the big red spot where they sped it up a few thousand times :)


Maybe you could do it with a simple sideways scrolling texture by twisting the skin coordinates around the eye shape?

For the Doom orbs I'm thinking:

Regen: I would go with the Megasphere idea, perhaps even a red version of it
Invisibility: I agree with Chilvence - the big bloodshot eyeball!
Megahealth: Soul Sphere (of course)
Haste: An archvile head sounds about right to me (almost yellow too, come to think of it)
Invul: I say stick with the original green orb
Flight: Perhaps a cacodemon opening and closing its mouth?

That's my 2p's worth.

Perhaps I should add, since there seems to be some misconception about it, that the obvious powerups:

- Invisibility
- Invulnerability, and the
- Megahealth

Will be replaced by

- Invisibility sphere from Doom
- Invulnerability sphere from Doom
- Soulsphere from Doom

There is no argument possible, considering those, and no discussion nescessary. Focus on:

- Haste
- Regeneration
- Flight

Well the Regen idea I've already put forth, the beating heart, but a red version of a soul-sphere could look good too.  Good idea there.

For Haste I think maybe a yellow demon face (archvile, whatever) with an electrical shader running on the sphere surface might look good.  As long as the sphere mapping behaves the way I think it will, I think we could swing that effect.  Tab:  I might need a full sphere model for the shader effect.  I'll know once I try it, if we take that route.  I like the electrical idea, as it's a variation on the yellow lightning theme and I love doing electrical shader effects.  <3

As for flight..  that is a toughie.  A lot of people might not catch the cacodemon translation, but the Invuln already uses a skull-shaped head inside so the lost soul idea is out.  The usual flight theme is something with wings, but getting anything winged to work in a sphere would be tough.  Maybe a flapping-winged, evil looking bird-like demon trying to fly at the player, snapping its beak and flexing its talons occasionally would work?

What about some kind of flat winged shape with a corkskrew spiral spinning below it, to give the illusion of flying upwards? Fitting it in a tiny sphere might be a problem though.

To me, a pair of bat/demon wings that rotate, bob, and flap every once  in a while would be plenty sufficient for Doom's flight power-up.

And as for Haste:  I definitely like the demon face idea.  Maybe it could be jittery and appear to blur in and out of focus?

Phoenix:  I absolutely love the heart idea for Regneration.  It gives me pangs of nostalgia for the game Blood. :)

A relatively consistent theme with the doom spheres were objects appearing out of an almost liquid core..

flight: pouncing bird of prey uses the same effect the mega/invuln uses (fade out of "nothing"), then flaps and fades back into the sphere.

haste: I can't help but see some figure running the equator of the sphere.. Out of the goo, back into the goo.. A tad campy for doom, perhaps.

regen: two-chamber heart, chamber fills, chamber 'compresses' causing itself to fade back into the sphere while the other chamber becomes easily visible. Second chamber fades back in, repeat.

Here's my ideas

Flight: I agree with the cacodemon idea

Regeneration: Hmm...maybye a green health powerup (the health powerup that i'm  talking about is that blue bottle but in green and inside a sphere)

Haste: I don't know what the hack is haste so i'm not saying anything about it.

Actually, the only powerup where the contents partially submerge in something nondescript, is the soulsphere. The others don't feature that :]

regen
I think the heart idea will work perfectly for regen. I'm sorry angst, but although the idea is very nice, remember these things will have to be modelled, animated and skinned _before_ quakecon. I have another idea I will draw & show sketches for, involving the heart, too.
Theme is decided upon anyway: Red/burgundy shaded orb, beating heart

haste
Kruzader: use your imagination for 'haste', because it just does what the name says: speed things up.
I think Pho's idea will work quite well here, as well as add some variety by said electrics (plus I'm curious what it would look like :)). The Arch-Vile was also one of the coolest enemies in Doom, imo, and modelling either that or a likeness of it will be enjoyable.

flight
Although I like most ideas involving birds (especially Chilvence's corkscrew trick), I'm also looking at the limited time available in combination with the flight being a very rare powerup indeed. Although the cacodeamon might not be a very intuitive choice, rendered in purple it would probably work. It is also easily demonic and Doomish. And finally, it is the easiest thing to model and animate in the least amount of time, especially compared to realistic birds flapping wings etc. I'm heavily leaning away from those, for that reason.

I like the cacodemon idea best for flight ;)

But the archvile just doesn't seem right for haste.

Tabun: My english isn't perfect, you know. Thanks for saying the meaning of haste.

I think that Pho's idea is very nice. The archville is perfect for the job because he's quick and deadly.

For haste, how about a sphere containing particles bouncing all around inside of it with something that resembles an atom inside, like it's designed to speed up the anatomy of the player on a molecular level?

=]

...
 :shifty:  :shifty:

Perplexing

That's another great idea!

For haste perhaps a pair of boots running? :)

Love all the other ideas for the doom powerups though. Except the cacodemon I think should be replaced by the lost soul, but the Cacodemon is cool. :D

I think the first thing that came to mind was to put a Lost Soul in the flight orb, but there's a small problem there... and that's the Lost Soul of Vengeance. :)

Since the flaming skull already makes an appearance in Gen, it's not an option here.

No  more skulls

Ok guys. For the Flight I developed a series of ideas that may work or can be used later on; for an instance, while I was readin' all the ideas it came to my head the image of a bony torso with bony wings that  I used to create Flight 1, then another image that occured to me was Flight 2, were I know already that a monk, an evil monk, does not  necessarily fits in the Doom Universe, but anyway I give it a shot; think of him as the "messeger of darkness", or the "one who lives on the darkness" some Lovecraft shit like dat, and the third version, Flight3, a demon skull, here featured hornless, with wingy things aside, and the lower jaw broken, and lastly, the haste as a bundle of energy, somesort like the one the shaft casts, contained in an orb, and thats all for today.... or maybe not, till I came with somethin' new!!!

Okay, since I'm still with alot of ideas, I have come up with this ones: For Regen, I was thinking that it should come from a spell, one that could be inside and orb, or visible as a rune, or artifact, thinking outside regular Doom, so, in Regen1, if everyone remembers "Indy and the temple of DOOM", the scene with the bad dude forcing Indy to drink the evil bevereage, is something like it, an "unholy grail" with a substance that gives ya the xtra health with or without an orb, and speaking about casting, in Regen 3, maybe a hell lord casting the "essence of the Doomguy" with extra health, also with orb, or not, Regen5 is too elaborate, the UAC logo, and a graphic "something" that points out the health boost, Regen 4, come to think of it as a "soul inside a skull" maybe with horns, resembling the status
screen of Doom with the melting skulls, and the Regen/Megasphere, the helmet of Doom, in flames or perhaps surrounded bay some spell, substance, you name it....

Well, the Archvile doesn't have to make sense since they used a Mancubus face for the Megasphere in Doom.

I guess the cacodemon gets the nod.  It's certainly Doomish, stays with the Doom theme of monsters in the globes, and if Tab can whip it up within our timetable that's good enough for me.

This puts us to:

Beating heart for Regeneration.

Archvile face for Haste, with a lightning effect on the shell.  I'm sure Tab can whip up a fun animation on the face as well.

Cacodemon face for Flight, trying to bite you through the sphere.

The spheres themselves will not do anything like wobble, vibrate, or bounce up and down.  That just looks plain silly when put next to the other Doom items and contradicts the effects we already have in mind.

JLmode: nice sketches there, fella. Gloomy stuff.

I'm with Pho on the no-animations-on-the-orbs-themselves bit, that'd just look wrong.

As for the flight: I'm still kind of thinking about a pain elemental too, sort of turning in on itself (mouth opens wider and wider, and a new elemental pops out.. doesn't have anything to do with the concept of flying, but it'd look pretty neat, I think.

If you can pull that animation off, it has my nod.  :thumb:

That just sounds... beatiful. An infinite string of regurgitated pain elementals ...