Wirehead Studios

Came across this thread via our forums, seems they are ripping models from everywhere, and i saw Tabun's GL model in there too:

http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1084 (http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1084)

Sorry if its old!

Maybe it's old, but I sure never knew about this..
Man this is the sort of stuff that makes me sick to my stomach. Shameless, honourless, spineless direct rips of just about everything we've ever done. Fucking lousy slobs. Right under marketing guys on my blacklist.

Thanks for letting us know o'dium!

Yeha, thanks o'dium, We'll be sure to sick Lee'Mon on em.. he hasnt ranted in a little while, im sure he'll be up for it :)

No problem guys. I hate stuff like this too. Nothing is worse than spending hours on something, and then have some guy come along and rip you off. Hope it gets solved for you.

not to mention i dont think raven would be too happy about their RPG and SPAS-15 models being ripped from SOF2 and being called 'his'

Just SoF2? What about Jedi Knight, what about Urban Terror, Gen Arena, among others... I was amazed not to see any of our stuff in there....

lol thats just what i saw on the first page.. didnt have time to go through 9 pages here at school.

Actually, o'dium, I think I spotted your air-strike bomb model. Then again, it's only depicted really tiny and as hud icons..

(http://www.simset.net/~ncsamon/bug.jpg)

It just reminded me of a model shot I saw on Q2E's forums..

Don't forget RTCW/ET for those ammo packs.

Such gross rippage should not be rewarded with compliments.

Where dude? All i see is the model witha messed up skin... Which could be Gens or Q2E's health pack. Should I be looking for an icon? :s

Hehe yeah, the huge red icon :]
Not much of a rip, even if it is based on your stuff, but still ;]

Interesting...

Well, there's the fuel to the fire. I'm done replying for now...

/me sits back , enjoys the show and waves a flag with lee on it in the air .

we love you lee .


now get out there and destroy those idiotic ripping donkeys .

Tabun: "I see an apology of sorts (an apology for my reaction is kind of odd though)"

I didn't apologize for anything. I'm one for professionalism... If someone used my work without asking me, or giving credit, I wouldn't be happy at all. Now if said person, at least, gave credit... I still wouldn't be happy, but I'd be a bit more considerable towards him than if he didn't.

It's like saying... yes, he ripped it and tossed it into another game, but at least he 'knows' he didn't really do anything to take credit for.

Anyway... as I said before, I'll drift back into the shadows before I say too much... again(?)

That's because it wasn't directed at you, but at oldman.

What I am, once again, troubled by, is the amount of flame-style posts popping up on that board. It's hard enough to get people bow to reason in an angered frame of mind as it is, instant flamewars don't exactly make things any easier.

Hah... I'm a dumass. *slinks back into the shadows and hides* :ninja:

Oh, yes, that's why mods get foxed all the time. Because the internet isn't real, and software piracy is childsplay. Crimes can't happen on the interweb! :P

*sigh* Silliness aside, a number of the posters on that forum are being 12 year old wankers. Which, admittedly, is only any different from the flamers from THIS board by their apparent maturity.

This is a legal situation, which means flaming is bad, m'kay?

Now, while my legalese is a tad rusty, I DO know that anything with a copyright by default extends to the entirety of the product. For those who may be easily confused here, a TRADEMARK registers a name, title, or effigy, whereas a COPYRIGHT states simply that the item in question, or any part thereof, canNOT be legally distributed without the legal consent of whomever holds said copyright.

Granted, the Wirehead team may not have made the copyright statements as obvious as is apparently necessary for some people. However, ignorance does NOT excuse you from comitting a crime. And yes, copyright infringement IS a crime. One of the reasons Wirehead is so pissy about the legality is because they tread a VERY fine line here. The mod is legal only so long as all material for the mod, excluding what was already included in quake 3, is created specifically for the mod.

We don't rip, we don't take credit where none is due, and we ALWAYS request permission to distribute anything that we did not create.

Mappers, or those who create individual replacement models, write copyright statements for anything they release. This is the nature of the beast. Maps are self-enclosed entities, whereas a mod itself is not. A mod is the sum of it's parts. I'm sure most mappers would LOVE to not have to deal with the statements involving "let me know if you want to use my map for something." But it's the wankers who'll rip a map apart and then claim credit for it that force them to do so.

In the end, the members of Wirehead Studios are being VERY lenient in this matter. We're trying to be civil and, the flamers from these boards and the other aside, resolve this incident relatively peacefully. Legally, ripping copyrighted material is a legally punishable offense, read: crime, and those who use and distribute the media are aiding a technical criminal. That means this isn't just Creed, this is everyone hosting, and using the files that have been ripped. The second Creed uploaded his modified files, he broke the law. The second you completed downloading the files, YOU broke the law. I'll let Lee do the real ranting, but this isn't a joke. And we don't treat it as such.

when i was in the school yard if someone stole from me i beat the snot out of them.

Oh yeah.. :shifty: Lets kick his butt with an electronic shotgun... :shifty: the only thing I want is to settle things up.

Yeah, especially when you can't even make your own models!  :D

Oldman is a fool for trying to defend that idiot. The guy didn't even make any attempt to let people know it wasn't his own work. It's like Oldman is argueing just for the sake of argueing. And then that Nemesis guy...what a dipshit.

Geez ok here we go again... damnit this just makes me so tired and pissed off.

Oh great, another one.

I love how no one has brought up the most pertintent fact of copyright law:

The copyright exists the moment the work is created. No "owned by X" or "you may not pass my work off as your own" statements required.

I'm going to stay out of that thread on the other board and let Lee'Mon do the talking. It's what he's best at.

Actually... my last post on the other forum did imply that. And all I wanted to do was imply it. I didn't want to actually say it. :)

I enjoy making people think... or not think. Digging deep into how much they actually know, per se. :)

I'm feeling really lame right now.

I ported most of the models for myself and uploaded them to try to extent quakeworlds life...I'm really sorry to the whole wirehead team for not asking.

Never did I say these were my models, I always said where I ripped them from, I edited them only to make them the same size as the id ones.

Props to the modelers and skin artists from Wirehead because they're all pro.

I fail to see the reason for all the rage...you're ripping q1 q2 and doom. If you like quake1 enough to bring it to q3 why can't quake1 have the redone models?

Again I'm very sorry to the whole Wirehead team, I did not profit in any way and I only ported your models on request.

we didnt 'rip' anything is the problem here, all of our content is completely original.

We're ripping nothing. We've re-created, from scratch, everything in Gen.

Nonstalgia is nice, but stealing others' work and promoting as your own (or as part of another project) is immoral, inconsiderate, and illegal.

However, we do thank you for your apology, however hollow it may be, considering the models are still up.

I'm sure you mean well, but until the content is removed, you will not be forgiven. And if we have to get the content forcibly removed, well it won't be the first time we've shut down a site or a fledgeling criminal modeler .

Saying that you only did it by request is like telling the authorities that you only robbed the bank because little Timmy wanted lunch money.

This is from my thread in the fuhquake.net/forum

Good for them. It's still not:

a) moral. You did NOT ask for permission. You barely mentioned the mod at all
b) considerate. Don't steal, it's not nice.
c) legal. Regardless of if there's a text file or a disclaimer, the copyright exists from the moment the work was created. You have broken copyright law, and as such are a target for lawsuits.

Once again, stealing our models just because others asked for them is no different than stealing a candy bar from Wal-Mart because some stranger at the door asked for it.

I once stole 3 1p cola bottle sweets from a shop near me because i liked them. However, i fealt so bad I didn't leave the house for a week.

True story  :offtopic:

First of all, thanks for the apology, Creed.
Feeling lame over this is a good thing if you ask me - it's the proper feeling to accompany an act of 'ripping'. I'm sure the world will be a bit of a better place for every person to learn this small and yet apparantly difficult lesson in life.

Secondly, to get a few things in the clear:
- I noticed that you never claimed them as your in that thread, explicitly, anyway. This does not remove the fact that all the facts in my list of facts are.. well.. facts..
Anyway, in regarding to that, and as far as I'm concerned: Apology accepted.
- I am flattered (even in the face of other, some more outrageous, model thefts throughout my 'career' in this business) by the interest people take in my work. Compare it to drinking a very fine wine indeed, while a small horde of leprechauns is furiously jabbing poison-tipped knitting needles in your shins. It's hard to savour the taste, as it were.


And lastly: ConfusedUs is very much correct - and you still do not have permission to release, redistribute, edit or use the models.

hehe I just wanted you guys who didn't get a chance to read this from my thread on the qw forum


Fiona Apple - Criminal

At first I thought this was a joke, sadly its not.

Though i don't think i held any part of this, I can't belive what has happened and what I have learned from it.

First off: I offer an apology to the Wirehead team for what has been discovered.  I'm sure no harm was meant but everything you have said, and i mean Nearly EVERY post on this thread is true.

Second: I would like to avoid the direct subject and tell you that the way you have conducted yourselves is extraordinary (check that spelling).

Finally: This website is Freaking amazing!! These forums rock, this website rocks.  I'm gonna search around some more and comment around!!  Great work on Generations.  I have played it but didnt recognize the models.  From now on i will look out for "piracy" in a much different form.

Thanks, and welcome aboard.

Woot!

I suppose it's time I squawk up now that I've gotten wind of this.

Creed:  First, this is about hard work - OURS.  We own these models.  We take pride in what we do, and for someone to just come along and use without permission hurts.  We are well within our rights to protect what is ours.

Second, this is about helping YOU see what not to do.  Generations Q2 got shut down by Id Software because it used models, textures, and maps that belonged to Id Software, Inc, WITHOUT PERMISSION.  This is known as "foxing" among the mod community.  You can either voluntarily remove content that is not yours, or it can be done forcibly.  The reason it's known as "foxing" is because of Fox going after people who used ANY shred of their intellectual property.  This went as far as real names, addresses, etc, having to be disclosed to Fox, along with ALL material from the offending mod or criminal prosecution would follow.  That's the most extreme case, and yes, this did happen to real people just like you.

We at Wirehead do not make it our life's goal to be jerks to people, so we ask first and shoot later.  Just bear in mind that we WILL shoot if our rights are not respected.  This is not a threat, it's a promise.  If you want your project(s) to go forward, well that's great!  So do we.  However, if they are to go forward you need to do it on the level and not just take what belongs to others.  Sentiments in this are irrelevant, and no manner of posting other peoples' opinions will change our stance on this matter.  Work hard, do it yourselves, and take pride in what you do.

Lastly, if we cannot convince you that we are serious on this matter and resolve it peacefully don't take the "lawsuit" option lightly.  We mean it, and we have the resources and connections to do it.  We don't even have to go that far.  All we need to do to shut you down is to notify other companies whose material you've used without consent and they will do the job well enough without our needing to lift a finger.   We do not take this lightly, nor is this petty nor blown out of proportion.  We do our damndest to make sure we stay legal and don't infringe on any copyrights because we respect the work that's been done before us.  That's the whole POINT of our project - it is a tribute to Id Software.  We're not going to turn around and steal from those we admire.  LeeMon has kept in touch with Todd H. at Id to make sure every move we make is ok with them and that we're not invading their personal space.  We expect the exact same treatment from anyone else and we demand no less when it comes to respecting our work.

Of further note, every "milestone" release of Generations features this text included in the installer.  For those who just used the .zip version, yes, you may have missed it.  .zip format is provided for those using alternative OS's who cannot otherwise use the .exe installer, however since this seems to be a continuing problem with people thinking they can just rip our work at will we'll make doubly sure it's included in every new file we provide.  Download the .99c release in either gensetup-full.exe or gensetup-min.exe format and you'll be greeted with this immediately upon program execution.

?GENERATIONS ARENA? MODIFICATION
SOFTWARE LICENSE AGREEMENT

This Limited Use Software License Agreement (the "Agreement") is a legal agreement between you, the end-user, and the organization WireHead Studios (?WireHead?).  BY CONTINUING THE INSTALLATION OF THE GAME MODIFICATION PROGRAM ENTITLED GENERATIONS ARENA (THE "SOFTWARE"), BY LOADING OR RUNNING THE SOFTWARE, OR BY PLACING OR COPYING THE SOFTWARE ONTO YOUR COMPUTER HARD DRIVE, COMPUTER RAM OR OTHER STORAGE, YOU ARE AGREEING TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS OF THIS AGREEMENT.  

1.   WireHead Studios.  ?WireHead Studios? shall refer to the organization responsible for the creation of the Software.  This organization shall include Lee ?Lee?Mon? Montgomery, as well as other individuals not disclosed in this Agreement who have contributed to the creation of the Software.  Any communications concerning this Agreement shall be directed either directly to Lee Montgomery or to the email address leemon@planetquake.com.

2.   Grant of License for Software.  Subject to the terms and provisions of this Agreement and so long as you fully comply at all times with this Agreement, WireHead grants to you the non-exclusive and limited right to use the Software in executable or object code form for the purposes of a beta test.  The term "Software" includes all elements of the Software such as data files, images appearing in the Software, and screen displays.  You are not receiving any ownership or proprietary right, title or interest in or to the Software or the copyrights, trademarks, or other rights related thereto.  For purposes of the first sentence of this section, "use" means loading the Software into RAM and/or onto computer hard drive, as well as installation of the Software on a hard disk or other storage device, and means the uses permitted in sections 3. and 5. herein below.  You agree that the Software will not be shipped, transferred or exported into any country in violation of the U.S. Export Administration Act (or any other law governing such matters) by you or any one at your direction and that you will not utilize and will not authorize anyone to utilize, in any other manner, the Software in violation of any applicable law.  The Software shall not be exported or re-exported into (or to a national or resident of) any country to which the U.S. has embargoed goods or to anyone or into any country who/which are prohibited, by applicable law, from receiving such property.

3.   Modification Beta-Test Use.  You the end-user are granted the limited, non-exclusive right to use the Software as modification software designed to operate with the full retail version of the game program Quake III Arena (but not any demo, test or other version of said game).  By using the Software, you agree to operate the Software for the sole purpose of beta-testing the code operations of the Software.  By using the Software, you agree that the Software is in an uncompleted, unfinished form, and agree to hold WireHead Studios and its members harmless for any copyright, trademark, and/or intellectual property infringement caused by any version of the Software that WireHead Studios does not intentionally make available for public use.  You shall not alter the Software to infringe against any third party right or use the Software in any manner that would be libelous, defamatory, obscene, false, misleading, or otherwise illegal or unlawful. You shall not rent, sell, lease, lend, offer on a pay-per-play basis or otherwise commercially exploit or commercially distribute the Software.  You shall not distribute the Software to any third party, including but not limited to ID Software, Inc. and/or Activision, Inc.  As noted below, in the event you commit any breach of this Agreement, your license and this Agreement shall automatically terminate, without notice.  You hereby agree to indemnify, defend and hold harmless WireHead Studios and its members, ID and Activision and WireHead?s, ID's and Activision's respective officers, employees, directors, agents, licensees (excluding you), sub-licensees (excluding you), successors and assigns from and against all losses, lawsuits, damages, causes of action and claims relating to and/or arising from the Software or the distribution or other use of the Software or relating to and/or arising from your breach of this Agreement.  Your obligations set forth in the immediately preceding sentence shall survive the cancellation or termination of this Agreement.

4.   Prohibitions with Regard to Software. You, whether directly or indirectly, shall not do any of the following acts:
a.   rent the Software;

b.   sell the Software;

c.   lease or lend the Software;

d.   offer the Software on a pay-per-play basis;

e.   distribute the Software by any means, including, but not limited to, Internet or other electronic distribution, direct mail, retail, mail order or other means;

f.   in any other manner and through any medium whatsoever commercially exploit the Software or use the Software for any commercial purpose;

g.   disassemble, reverse engineer, decompile, modify (except as permitted by section 3. hereinabove) or alter the Software;

h.   translate the Software;

i.   reproduce or copy the Software (except as permitted by section 5. hereinbelow); or

j.   prepare or develop derivative works based upon the Software.

5.   Permitted Copying.  You may make only the following copies of the Software:   (i) you may copy the Software from the location provided by WireHead Studios onto your computer hard drive; (ii) you may copy the Software from your computer hard drive into your computer RAM; and (iii) you may make one (1) "back up" or archival copy of the Software on one (1) hard disk.

6.   Intellectual Property Rights.  Certain portions of the Software are copyrighted ?2001-2002 by WireHead Studios and Lee Montgomery.  All copyrights, trademarks and all other conceivable intellectual property rights not retained by WireHead Studios and Lee Montgomery are owned by ID.  All copyrights, trademarks, and intellectual property rights contained herein are protected by United States copyright laws, international treaty provisions and all applicable law, such as the Lanham Act.  You must treat the Software like any other copyrighted material, as required by 17 U.S.C., ?101 et seq. and other applicable law.  You agree to use your best efforts to see that any user of the Software licensed hereunder complies with this Agreement.  You agree that you are receiving a copy of the Software by license only and not by sale and that the "first sale" doctrine of 17 U.S.C. ?109 does not apply to your receipt or use of the Software. This section 6. shall survive the cancellation or termination of this Agreement.

7.   No WireHead Warranties.  WIREHEAD STUDIOS DISCLAIMS ALL WARRANTIES, WHETHER EXPRESS OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE AND ANY WARRANTY OF NON-INFRINGEMENT, WITH RESPECT TO THE SOFTWARE.  WIREHEAD DOES NOT WARRANT THAT THE OPERATION OF THE SOFTWARE WILL BE UNINTERRUPTED OR ERROR FREE OR THAT THE SOFTWARE WILL MEET YOUR SPECIFIC REQUIREMENTS.  ADDITIONAL STATEMENTS, WHETHER ORAL OR WRITTEN, DO NOT CONSTITUTE WARRANTIES BY WIREHEAD AND SHOULD NOT BE RELIED UPON.  This section 7. shall survive the cancellation or termination of this Agreement.

8.   Governing Law, Venue, and Liability Limitation.  This Agreement shall be construed in accordance with and governed by the applicable laws of the State of California and applicable United States federal law.  Copyright and other proprietary matters will be governed by applicable United States laws and international treaties.  Except as set forth below, exclusive venue for all litigation regarding this Agreement shall be in San Francisco County, California and you agree to submit to the jurisdiction of the courts in San Francisco, California for any such litigation. You agree that your unauthorized use of the Software or any part thereof may immediately and irreparably damage WireHead Studios such that WireHead could not be adequately compensated solely by a monetary award and that at WireHead's option WireHead shall be entitled to an injunctive order, in addition to all other available remedies including a monetary award, appropriately restraining and/or prohibiting such unauthorized use without the necessity of WireHead posting bond or other security.   IN ANY CASE, WIREHEAD STUDIOS, ACTIVISION, AND WIREHEAD?S, ID'S, AND ACTIVISION'S RESPECTIVE OFFICERS, EMPLOYEES, DIRECTORS, AGENTS, LICENSEES (EXCLUDING YOU), SUBLICENSEES (EXCLUDING YOU), SUCCESSORS OR ASSIGNS SHALL NOT BE LIABLE FOR LOSS OF DATA, LOSS OF PROFITS, LOST SAVINGS, SPECIAL, INCIDENTAL, CONSEQUENTIAL, INDIRECT, PUNITIVE OR OTHER SIMILAR DAMAGES ARISING FROM ANY ALLEGED CLAIM FOR BREACH OF WARRANTY, BREACH OF CONTRACT, NEGLIGENCE, STRICT PRODUCT LIABILITY, OR OTHER LEGAL THEORY EVEN IF WIREHEAD, ID, ACTIVISION OR THEIR RESPECTIVE AGENT(S) HAVE BEEN ADVISED OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES OR EVEN IF SUCH DAMAGES ARE FORESEEABLE, OR LIABLE FOR ANY CLAIM BY ANY OTHER PARTY.  Some jurisdictions do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you.  This section 8. shall survive the cancellation or termination of this Agreement.

9.   U.S. Government Restricted Rights.  To the extent applicable, the United States Government shall only have those rights to use the Software as expressly stated and expressly limited and restricted in this Agreement, as provided in 48 C.F.R. ?? 227.7201 through 227.7204, inclusive.

10.   General Provisions.  Neither this Agreement nor any part or portion hereof shall be assigned or sublicensed by you.  WireHead Studios, ID, and Activision each may assign its respective rights under this Agreement in the assigning party's sole discretion.  Should any provision of this Agreement be held to be void, invalid, unenforceable or illegal by a court of competent jurisdiction, the validity and enforceability of the other provisions shall not be affected thereby.  If any provision is determined to be unenforceable by a court of competent jurisdiction, you agree to a modification of such provision to provide for enforcement of the provision's intent, to the extent permitted by applicable law.  Failure of WireHead, ID, or Activision to enforce any provision of this Agreement shall not constitute or be construed as a waiver of such provision or of the right to enforce such provision.  Immediately upon your failure to comply with or breach of any term or provision of this Agreement, YOUR LICENSE AND THIS AGREEMENT SHALL AUTOMATICALLY TERMINATE, WITHOUT NOTICE, AND WIREHEAD, ID, AND ACTIVISION MAY PURSUE ALL RELIEF AND REMEDIES AGAINST YOU WHICH ARE AVAILABLE UNDER APPLICABLE LAW AND/OR THIS AGREEMENT.  In the event this Agreement is terminated, you shall have no right to use the Software in any manner, and you shall immediately destroy all copies of the Software in your possession, custody or control.

YOU ACKNOWLEDGE THAT YOU HAVE READ THIS AGREEMENT, THAT YOU UNDERSTAND THIS AGREEMENT, AND UNDERSTAND THAT BY CONTINUING THE INSTALLATION OF THE SOFTWARE, BY LOADING OR RUNNING THE SOFTWARE, OR BY PLACING OR COPYING THE SOFTWARE ONTO YOUR COMPUTER HARD DRIVE OR RAM, YOU AGREE TO BE BOUND BY THE TERMS AND CONDITIONS OF THIS AGREEMENT.  YOU FURTHER AGREE THAT, EXCEPT FOR WRITTEN SEPARATE AGREEMENTS BETWEEN WIREHEAD STUDIOS, ID, OR ACTIVISION AND YOU, IF ANY, THIS AGREEMENT IS A COMPLETE AND EXCLUSIVE STATEMENT OF THE RIGHTS AND LIABILITIES OF THE PARTIES HERETO.  THIS AGREEMENT SUPERSEDES ALL PRIOR ORAL AGREEMENTS, PROPOSALS OR UNDERSTANDINGS, AND ANY OTHER COMMUNICATIONS BETWEEN WIREHEAD STUDIOS, ID, ACTIVISION AND YOU RELATING TO THE SUBJECT MATTER OF THIS AGREEMENT.

This has been sent to the relevant party, but I'll post it here, slightly reworded for the general audience.
==========
I know there's a lot of emotional arguing going back and forth on the various forums, so I wanted to post officially on behalf of the team, to try and get as much straightened out as possible.

We at WireHead have the utmost respect for other individuals and teams that are putting forth effort to revitalize the id Software anthologies and present the game universes we all know and love in new forms.  Generations Arena is not only our premier project, but a massive undertaking of any scope, and everyone here is proud of what we've created and the fanbase that has grown because of it.  We wish others in the id "classic" mod community all the luck in their own successes.

That said, the history of WireHead and the Generations projects has its fair share of erroneous thinking about copyrights, copyright law, and the degree of respect one has to give to those laws when one is "just" making mods.

The sole reason Generations Arena exists is that id Software explicitly gave us permission to build on their copyrights, most notably, to draw so heavily on the Game Scenarios of their previous games.  We were not permitted to copy characters or their likenesses, but were permitted to create weapons, graphics, etc. that were similar in form and function to the original games.

One thing we were explicitly not permitted to use, however, was any of the actual content from the games.  This includes the actual models, sounds, textures, and geometry (explicitly geometry... hand-duplicated levels were not allowed) from those games.  Those were the original works, and there were serious copyright issues that would arise for id themselves if they allowed others to use them, even for free.  (The fact that the publisher owns certain copyright on the games as well further murks up the issue).

While we take extreme pride in Generations, we cannot take too much ownership in it from a copyright standpoint.  Much of the non-tangible aspects (the design, scenario, intellectual property, etc) are derivative works.  However, the actual files--textures, models, etc--are ours.

We have no desire to be stingy or legal sticklers over copyright issues, but the concerns we have are ones that anyone who creates something would share.  We want to keep ownership and recognition for the work we created.   We want to know (or at least have a general idea) of who's using our stuff and how they're using it (especially if it's not in the way we presented it).

More notably, we don't wanting people to pick and choose among our content and present a very incomplete picture of our work.  Most of all, we don't want all the hard work we went to lumped up with other people's creations, thus having our own work judged based on the works of others.

While the body of copyright law can be confusing, the basic concept (easily looked up at http://copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html (http://copyright.gov/circs/circ1.html) for those other people out there who start quoting laws that don't exist) is extremely easy.  A work is copyrighted the second it's created.  The copyright need not be explicitly listed anywhere, nor any EULA need exist for the work to be protected.  The work is automatically protected against reproduction, copying, and derivative works (among other things) , and to do those things without explicit permission is illegal.

Regardless of the opinion some of the forum discussors might have, using models and textures others have created, without their expressed permission, is a violation of copyright and illegal.  Even if one does not care about that, it still is horrible etiquette at best, and underhanded at worst, to do it.  It's especially important to get permission when taking individual elements of a complete work (that each constitute a significant work in and of themselves, like models) out of the whole work... and even more so when bundling them with other works outside the original creator's control,

We at WireHead are fairly frank and open about the concept of derivative works... Generations is one itself, and we'd be nowhere on it without permission from id.  But that's the point: we asked before we started, and we double-checked each step of the way.  It's all we've ever asked of others, and even if one ignores that it's the law to do so, it's just polite.

Part of the frustation among our members and fans is that we seem to go through this on a semi-monthly basis, every time with a new person who "didn't know."  The burden of proof is not on us, the responsibility is not inherently ours; we give sufficient notification, and searching for places where we do not state such does not provide one protection.

We'll certainly take steps to state this more clearly, but allow me to get it out in the open now: WireHead Studios does not permit derivative works of Generations without explicit permission.  The only major exception is the creation of maps (not based on our .map or .bsp files) that make use of (but do not include) our custom textures.

Please consider this a request to remove all of WireHead Studio's content from this project, and do not include any of our files in the future.  If anyone have any questions, I'm more than happy to discuss this via my email.  My one request would be this: if you wish to discuss any specifics of copyright law that you feel may allow use of our property without permission, please at least thoroughly read http://www.copyright.gov (http://www.copyright.gov) before making arguments about what is and is not allowed.  ;^)

--Lee Montgomery

Rofl

hypocrite says what.

Here I was trying to do you a favor and save you from what killed a very fun project.  Oh and by the way, I was not on the original Generations project for Quake 2.  You might do your homework sometime, but I see you care little for that from your response on your own message board.  It's nice to know that you hold our work in such high esteem that the only way you see fit to appreciate it is to disrespect us and steal it for your own use.  You're setting a fine example for the rest of the mod community of what not to do.

:offtopic: Damn. Who wrote that whole License Agreement? I dont know how one would go into all that legalese... unless he was a lawyer or something.

Assamite pays attention :)

I'm sorry about the hypocrite comments if thats the case.

Ugh, I give up. It's just another day for me, when the newest ignorant neophyte feels that THIS is the point in their life where they will take a stand, feed their ego, and trumpet in proud, blissfully obtuse defiance, against US.

We, who have made the evil, terrorist, totalitarian demand that a person lacking the talent, experience, or dedication to actually create something unique and artistic of their own, should NOT be allowed to spend five minutes in a model converter and then attach the phrase "I MADE THIS" in any way, shape, or form to the artistic creations that our friends and team members worked, slaved, and lost sleep over.

We, who chase the obscene fancy that perhaps we don't WANT our content torn apart and slapped haphazardly into the latest immature hack model theft compilation. We who stubbornly embrace the concept that we don't LIKE our models stolen and placed next to other models as a shining example that yet another moron on the Internet doesn't give a damn what we want done with our own creations.

We, who urinate in the face of creative thinking by holding to the ideal that the things we create are created for OUR game and should remain in our game, and that those who want fancy models for QuakeWorld should MAKE THEIR OWN or find someone willing to intentionally make ones for them... as opposed to creating them for some other purpose, only to have them stolen without permission.

Or maybe I'm being facetious, and you're just an idiot. At any rate, my case is made. If you are truly ignorant enough to post our content somewhere after we've made it obscenely clear that you are not allowed to distribute it in any form... well, suffice it to say it takes less effort to fax an ISP or two than it takes to steal models.

Any further correspondence from me will be to notify the appropriate parties.

Sigh. The sad part is that some people seem to think we like going through all this shit. Empty threats? Don't bring us down to your level, if you like that sort of thing, please.
I was clear enough in my posts, and Lee just went and made it a hell of a lot clearer.

If you didn't know: sorry + delete would have sufficed.
If you didn't want to know: sorry + grovel + delete would have sufficed.
If you knew: sorry*1000 + grovel + delete might have sufficed.

If you know and still aren't ready to play nice about it, hey, we did our best to be completely fair in this matter. (You can see the anger in my initial response in this thread, compare it to the official post in yours)
Anyway, I can't say this hasn't been interesting, perhaps it will get even more interesting. You know I used to lose sleep over this? *chuckles*

Sorry for being a dick about it and I won't be posting my future ports of the awesome md3's most of which I can see are made by Tabun...Damn you got some major skills.

Thank you.

Now remove the content?

After Generations 1.0 is released, come back to us, and simply _ask_ if you can use stuff, and we'll see about it then. It is really just that simple..

Dont you get it? remove the content and the whole thing goes away. Stop trying to brown nose your way out of it.

The content was hosted on my server, he couldn't remove it because he didn't have access to it.  It's gone now and will stay so.

I think this small misunderstanding is dealt with and everyone can go on their merry ways.

Thank you. ;)

Wow, it's that easy?
Yes Creed converted the models to Quake, but he never said he made the models! He always said that the models are from the generations mod (btw Tabun)! I think Creed decided to convert the models from generstions mod to Quake, because all Quake remodel projects are canceled, died, or put down. (or something)
Yes Creed didn't asked for permission to convert the models! That was a big mistake,
but i hope you are not annoyed that much!
That's what i think why he converted stuff from generations arena!
(The same was with OoPpEe's tfc conversions of the generations arena models.)

Hey Tabun when 1.0 is out it would be great if you allow to convert the Quake models you made to use in a Quake port, and maybe the Doom models as a alternative for the jDoom!? That would be great, why only use that great models only in generations arena?? But it's your decision if you allow that, Tabun.

(Sorry for double post!)

Now I'm getting a little indignant here, which I think I have a right to.  I'll be the first to say Tabun's work kicks ass, but get one thing straight here people.

I MODELED THE SLIPGATE WEAPONS

Except for the shotguns and the axe, which we still need a few replacements on those.  Yeah, I know, Tabun's skins make everything look damned nice, but give me just a little credit here won't you?  You're making me overly jealous of all the attention Tab's work is getting, and I'm sure his ego is going to soon outpace my own if this keeps up! :D

/me gives pho a cookie ;)

how is that for attention

Indeed. I never suggested I could or would give permission to use ALL the Generations stuff. For clear reference of who did what:

http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/itemstatus.htm (http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/itemstatus.htm)
EDIT: For easy reference, I will provide links to images in that list, later on.

But for the sake of simplicity, asking 'Wirehead' will get our global attention, as I feel the mod team as a whole has a say on the artwork (at least until either 1.0 is released, or an artist quits the team).

In fact, I am only a mediocre/newbie modeller. As you can see, I've only done items, no weapons - Phoenix, Renalicious and Hedhunta are our main weapons-modellers.

Ofcourse I am annoyed (I was even horribly angry, as you can clearly see in this thread) that our stuff was used without permission. The ooppee story was quite similar to this one, yes, apart from the fact ooppee altered the models & skins a great deal more.
I don't apologize for getting angry and I don't think I overreacted. If anyone feels I am either wrong or silly for that, so be it. I have my dignity, honour and morals, and no responsibility or real cause to do the work that your parents ought to have done at one time or other.

Bottom line:
1.) I will probably allow my work (see url above) to be used in quake ports and whatnot, if and only after the final version of Gen is released. It's possible that I change my mind about this, ofcourse, but I'm generally sure of it at the moment.

2.) I Will never give anyone permission to alter my skins. Conversion to another file format is ofcourse allowed and in extreme cases I'm willing to overlook lossy formats and palette conversions. By no means however, will I stand for recolors or other adjustements to my skins, or vertex manipulation of my models. I hope you understand that this makes the line of 'whose work' it is rather vague, and I designed my work with a specific result in mind. Sorry, but that is, on the whole, final.

3.) My skins are completely useless without the models and I cannot, and would never, give you or anyone permission to use someone else's work - you will have to contact & ask the appropriate artists when the time comes.

I'm sorry to Tabun if I altered your skins in my ports of the md3's or any other artists skins...Some md3's had two groups, so I'd have to make one skin out of two, also they run in a stream in q3a and I couldn't get them to run that way in .bsp so I had to paste some stuff like the crosses in the health boxes...I also edited one shotgun skin but I included the original skin.

Even though I ported many models from mods and games I always called my thread bmodels becuase the quality of this teams work is unparalleled.

I was really upset about your team feeling ripped off and I hope that my temper and stupid coments I made after I had a few drinks, doesn't reflect on my sober state of mind.

props phoenix your models own and if I didn't mention that before, well I should have.

Once again Tabun and any other member of this team if I've edited your work I'm very sorry.

Apology twice accepted. I advise you to stay away from bad tempers - it's not helping your image or your interests. Good luck in creating your own models and skins in the future, if that is what you plan to do. And good luck in dealing with the likes of ssaknup or nemesis on your boards. Sometimes the endless anonimity of the internet seems too much to handle for some.

Cheers mate, and thanks for getting and keeping the port zip offline.


My final post in the bmodels thread:

I just got some web space on spymac, but I won?t be uploading any models for the time being...One things for sure, I promise not to upload anything ported from Wirehead without permission:)

for anyone who didn't get to see what the bmodels looked like in quake1
(http://www.spymac.com/upload/gallery/user_489062/upload_154763.jpg)
(http://www.spymac.com/upload/gallery/user_489062/upload_154766.jpg)
My apologies if I made unflattering edits of your work.

Well creed i highly recommend you to try to make your own models..cuz from what i can understand you have quite much knowledge about the q1 engines. why not try it? since i do not think anyone creates models to q1 anymore..it's too bad the q1remodelling project went dead.

Indeed.  Anyone can learn to make models.  I started out by tinkering with stuff that was already made and learning how it works.  Once you know how the system works it's just a matter of pushing vertices around. :)

That's the hard part though!  I just end up with little piles of crap... :(

well, as long as thats what you were aiming for, i dont see a problem! :)

Although, why one would model little piles of crap, i dunno...

you forget dic both SOF and postal 2 had models of piles of crap.

Man... I coulda had that job...  Would have been the best piles of crap you EVER saw!
But what a job interview it would have been.

I kind of liked postal2 (for about 10 minutes)

I thought I was pretty good at making crap:

(http://www.planetquake.com/tabun/tmp/earth_skinned_smallhealth.jpg)

Perhaps it's not steaming, but that could be arranged.

Everyone for dinner at tabuns house tonite. bring your own fork. :)~

Maybye with Ketchup...
And some sugar...
And some mustard...
And some of that yellow liquid... (YUK!!!!)


That was one of the most sickening things that I've ever said :(

Hotsauce. Needs hotsauce.

I bet if we look close enough, we could find some corn to go with that.

I can imagine now:

"-What's for diner, dear?
-UGGG...wait just a little longer, i'm trying to get it out!!!

SPLASH

-OK dear, here it is!
-I love when you put corn in the food dear!

kiss#kiss"

/kill <-- please, do us a favor

Absolutely. The tone of this thread has just hit an unnecessary low.

 :offtopic: Anyway, what Q1 engine is that?

It's fuhquake

check out this shells box I just did with the large nail box.

(http://www.spymac.com/upload/gallery/user_489062/upload_155648.jpg)
 :cheers:

I don't get it. Why do you keep using and posting ripped material after you've been told not to?

I am truly confused.

I'm just posting a screen of it...Its not uploaded.

Maybe seeing my lame attemp will inspire others to do better versions:)

Now if you could inspire yourself to make an ammo box from scratch, you'd be 100% on the way :]

I might do some models of my own...What do you use to make the models and what photo editor for doing textures.

Sigh..

Whatever... this subject is old and should be over with.

I'd say if this topic really does get revived, send the paperwork.

It's almost as if I accidentally filled in a form somewhere that said: 'Tick here to keep informed about the existence of real idiots on the planet.'

No! the thread must not be over! i demand satisfaction! i paid for blood!!!!!

nonono , no messing of blood in this forums , I'm not cleaning it up .


I would say , 1 more skin , or model altered and I would say fox them .
for not less them 500000$


btw .
/me waves his ass in woodsman's direction and sings "you can never hit it , you can never hit it ".

Not a wise time to be reminding me GK ill be in europe again in october.

Jesus Christ. The least they could do is give credit to the original authors, instead of implying that they made thisstuff, which they obviously did not.. Even in the Wolfenstein community, where there are not very many talented artists left and borrowing others' resources is more accepted, it is considered very wrong not to give the authors of the borrowed resources credit.

Hmm. It would be nice if Creed would stop porting stuff (or at least respect the fact that we don't want this happening, by not showing it off in screenshots).
Oh well, at least he's adding our url and stating that he'll ask (not for using the stuff, but for re-releasing) some time in the future.

If you read this, lad, please stop the screenies to show of our stuff..
At least until you have the permission you seek.

Also, since I didn't seem to respond to the questions earlier on (I must've missed them):
- I use Photoshop for textureing, because it's ideal for painting, overlays and per-pixel work
- 3D studio max for modelling (but that's just because I got used to it. Will switch to maya soon, I think)

Making models is just a matter of knowing the tools and having a good sense of the 3 dimensions, as well as technical skill in expressing an idea digitally. It's not hard, but a lot of work, usually.
Skinning/Texturing take a while to master (I'm not there yet) and it's generally a good idea to start by learning how to paint details yourself (figure out how lighting works, discover PS's tools, etc). A bit harder than modelling in some aspects, but a lot less work, once you got it down.

is he at it again?

http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1727 (http://www.quakeworld.nu/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1727)

No, I did not say he was 'at it again'.
I'm just noting that there's still screenshots..

Games Keeper:  I do not believe the models in those particular shots belong to us as they've not been publicly released yet.  If you notice in this link (http://www.wireheadstudios.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Items-and-Powerups&id=pre_slippyarmor_2) the armor model is physically different, and in in this link (http://www.wireheadstudios.org/gallery/view_photo.php?set_albumName=Weapons&id=sliprl_shots) the rocket launcher also has geometric differences.

however... the weapon ammo models that he's using is the same.

I took down the screenshot of the vengeance missile I ported the other day,  I'm the only qw player in the world thats using this rocket model. I won't send it to anyone unless I get the ok from you guys.

Tabun I won't post anymore shots.

Anyway the patch is looking amazing. I was just wondering if you guys had any plans on doing quad models for each generation.

Thanks Creed.
No problem in porting/ripping stuff for your own pleasure, just stay away from posting screenshots & uploads.

Quad models will probably be done, yes. We decided against it for a bit, seeing how the Gen logo is universal now, but perhaps a combination of that and the Class's styles.. who knows what 1.0 might bring ;]

Yeah, using the same 'model' but styling it differently for each class would rock.

The 'Generations Quad' really is a nice mark to the mod, but it would be very easy to imagine, say, Earth seeing a fancy-looking stained-glass version, or Slipgate getting one that's made of stone and has mechanical detailing (turning gears, etc, ideal use for a mapVideo shader) showing through chipped areas.

I'd like to see that! Only one issue though - the Strogg Quad would probably have to be BROWN!