Wirehead Studios

Are there any special mapping considerations that need to be taken care of when mapping for Generations Arena?

LA Greg

Technically, as far as the mechanical functionality of the map being in compliance with Gen, no. There are no special item/player spawns that differ from what works in vq3 and TA.

However, while constructing a map for Gen, there are gameplay elements to keep in mind, such as which item translates into what for each class, since item definitions get translated across classes when they're picked up. For example, when a Slipgater picks up a LG, they get the Shaft, along with the amount of cell ammo typically recieved upon that weapon pickup for Quake1.

The big translations I'd recommend keeping in mind would be the GL (and ammo), BFG ammo and the RG. GL spawns translate into a RL for Doom, and a Mortar for Earth. Keep in mind that there was no seperate grenade ammo in Quake1, and that the Slipgater's GL and RL share the same ammunition. An abundance of grenade ammo could easily empower a Slipgater into dominance. BFG ammo is a big cell pickup for Doom, Slipgate and Strogg and extra bullets for Earth, while merely being BFG-exclusive ammo for Arena. It's a good itee to have included in a map for Gen, but not for vq3 if there's no BFG on the level. The RG translates into the Sniper Rifle for Earth, CG for Doom, RG for Strogg and most importantly, the SNG for Slipgate, which is a weapon that requires about the same range as a shotgun and a huge stash of ammo in order to be effective (Dynamic translation, isn't it? =]). If there's a RG spawn in the level, please ensure there's also a RL or LG spawn as well, otherwise the Slipgater will not stand a chance.

If you're thinking about remixing or creating your own Doom map, please try to include the Medkit, which translates into the Beserk Pack pickup for Doom. Everyone surely remembers punching through hordes of demons back in the day, and doing the same with players is just as entertaining as well as nostalgic ;)

One last note to remember is that each class has their own set of physics, so they all move around maps differently. Strogg can strafe-jump up slopes, Slipgate can turn on a dime (see my Slipgate Trickjumping thread for demonstrations :)), Doom has a fast acceleration and normal running top speed, whereas Earth is all-around slower. It's OK to build in class-specific trickjumps to get to certain items and paths, so long as those same items/paths are reachable by all classes. If only the Slipgater can get the MH or RA due to being able to complete a U-jump, that's bad map balance for Gen. The 125fps extra height trickjump is fine as well, so long as there is a way to climb up the same (or a similar) route for players who don't have machines that can run that sort of framerate (or would like to enjoy the game rather than run the map at r_picmip 8 just to play well in it).

One final rule: Have some fun! That's what Generations is all about =]

p.s. If one of the other guys could build a nice matrix showing item translation (or give a link to one pre-built), that'd be helpful too =]

Actually there ARE some few items that generations has that standard q3 doesnt. for eg. Generations has ladder support and in the upcomming Gen SDK there will be new shooter entities and other cool stufft ;)

Tekhead is pretty much spot on.

There's many different 'slots' that the weapons fall in. For example, all the rocket launchers fall into the rocket launcher slot. Some slots may seem a bit strange, like the railgun slot, but overall it works well.

Here's a list of which standard Quake3 items change to  which in Generations.

Machinegun
Earth: mp40
Doom:  chainsaw
Slipgate: nailgun
Strogg: machinegun

Shotgun
Earth: Gatling gun. Two gats = Dual gats. Dual gats are a BFG-class weapon, and drop as such.
Doom: Double-barrel shotgun
Slipgate: SSG
Strogg: SSG

Grenade Launcher
Earth: Mortar (Grenade ammo grants hand grenades)
Doom: Rocket Launcher
Slipgate: Grenade Launcher
Strogg: Grenade Launcher (Grenade ammo grants hand grenades)

Rocket Launcher
Earth: Mortar
Doom: Rocket Launcher
Slipgate: Rocket Launcher
Strogg: Rocket Launcher

Lightning Gun
Earth: Gatling Gun
Doom: Heavy Chaingun
Slipgate: Thunderbolt (shaft)
Strogg: Chaingun

Plasma Gun
Earth: Flamethrower
Doom: Plasma Gun
Slipgate: Super Nailgun
Strogg: Hyperblaster

Railgun
Earth: Sniper Rifle
Doom: Heavy Chaingun
Slipgate: Super Nailgun
Strogg: Railgun

BFG
Earth: Dual Gats
Doom: BFG9000
Slipgate: Thunderbolt (shaft)
Strogg: BFG10k

Also note that weapons that aren't in a map can still show up through weapon drops. If a map contains a railgun but no lightning gun, it's still possible for a LG to show up. Doom gets a chaingun for running over the railgun pickup. If he dies with the CG out, it drops as a lightning gun-class weapon.

Powerup Conversions
Medikit -> berserk
Personal Teleporter -> Lost Soul of Vengence
Battlesuit -> Invulnerabliity

Shooters!! Woo!!! Plasma, flames, lasers, and nails!!!!!!  ^_^

Yes.  I'm currently working on proper mover interactions so that fun stuff like func_rotating, etc, works like in Q2 as opposed to being really flakey the way it is in vanilla Q3.  Otherwise we do have a whole host of shooter entities available that are presently undocumented because I'm still working on the SDK for that, which should accompany the .99e beta release of Generations Arena.

Until that's done, if you're wanting to include something like spike shooters in a map don't hesitate to either PM or email me on the subject and I'll get you whatever you need to make it work.  Just bear in mind any shooters outside the standard Q3 shooters (grenade, rocket, plasma) will ONLY work in Generations Arena.

Can you put in machinegun turrets or wall shotguns? The last time I used a mapmaker that worked, Q3 only allowed plasma shooters, rockets, and grenades. I wonder, can a mod have vehicles like Unreal Tournament or is Q3 not even able to support trains and cable trams? Somebody should make a map with a cablecar between really high places, like James Bond movies had. Remember Where Eagles Dare or Moonraker?

I'm sure you could do a cable car, there are 1 or 2 in RTCW.  As for other vehicles like cars or whatever, that would take a hell of a lot of work to add in to Q3, UT2K3 and UT2K4 already had vehicles built in.

Vehicles are beyond the scope of this mod.  Func_train DOES work in Q3 to an extent but could use some additional functionality down the road.  As for shooters, I'll address that in private IF a person is making a map.  I don't want to go quoting from the SDK because it's not done yet.  The map SDK for shooter ents will be made public with .99e's release.

You're adding so much new features to .99e...can't wait to download it. But there's a question i'd like to ask. Is .99e coming out on this summer?

"When its done" pho would say :)

I'm going to do my best to make sure we can release it prior to QuakeCon.  That's my goal anyway.

Generations could use some good mutilstory maps, preferably that allow players to lob grenades into lower floors as in the middle of Howling Wilderness. 4 or 5 stories high would be good, especially with more than one building. A good bonus would be a secret hatch onto the roof.

Tokay's Towers and Warehouse, anyone? :)

Tokay's Tower is exellent for things like that.

There's already several vertical-ish maps, and a whole bunch more coming with 99e

Any complicated urban-style maps? Maps with lots of twists, turns, corners and windows? Any boobytraps or tigerpits? Any shooter traps? Moving traincars or buses? The right use of these make some really super maps. I think somebody should take a look at the old Dukemaps I put on this site, especially uptown, moze, loop, and unduke. I know Duke is old crusty crap, but these maps have some really good stuff in them because me and my brother put a lot of time into making them. Some even have multiple floors which was a real bitch to make with Duke's Build engine. Anytime one floor could see across into another, the window texture would smear over the hole. I got around this by making some windows opaque, which sucks hard, but it made the hole map much bigger.

The funny thing is, Duke has nothing to do with ANY of the Generations..