Wirehead Studios

For a while now, I've been thinking we should try to get some remake music in Gen. The Q3 music works fine, but it is kinda tiresome hearing the same tracks over and over and doesn't really work to bring out the uniqueness of the Gen maps. I think maps like the Slimy Place and The Abandoned base just aren't the same without the music of Sonic Mayhem and NIN blasting om the background.

I'm curious what you guys think about this. I know some people probably don't care about the music and just put on their own cds, that's why I'm asking.

Anyway, the major problem is finding the remakes. There are some Doom remixes around. Most are not quite what you wanna frag to, but I few have some potential. Unfortunately there are no good remixes of Runnin (D2M2) that I've found. The only really good ones I've found are of E1M1, E1M4, and E1M8. I haven't seen any remixes for Quake 1 or 2 around though, nor Wolfenstein. It's doubtfull if we'd be able to find a decent musician willing to do all this stuff just for fun, but if you know anyone,  speak up. I guess we could ask around on Overclocked Remix, but we'd probably end up with a bunch of washed out trance remixes with 1 or 2 tracks that fit. Hell, I guess it's worth a try if there's a significant amount of Gen players interested. Of course, I don't know how the dev team feels.

EDIT: Nevermind, I found a good Runnin remix: http://www.angelfire.com/super/wimdenherde...mguitarsolo.mp3 (http://www.angelfire.com/super/wimdenherder/tab/wimdenherder_doomguitarsolo.mp3)

BTW here's Doomworld's remix page: http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/info/...c.php?wad=remix (http://www.doomworld.com/classicdoom/info/music.php?wad=remix)

I'm willing to work on any music, I have all the equipment here to do it, It would just be nice to have someone else to work on it with. I can play guitar, bass & acoustic, no drums though, although i do have the midi sequencers here to do drums and such. Come visit me on IRC sometime.
irc.wireheadstudios.net in #wirehead

I thought most of the sound tracks were bundled with the maps, how would one add new music?

i've got a lot of doom remixes and such i could donate to new maps ;)

the problem with music is the file size. You can't bundle mp3's in, q3 can't read 'em. They have to be in a specific .wav format. the music in myk_doom2 caused the file size to go from about 3megs for the map to nearly 20, if I remember right, and that is just a short 45 second loop.

simple, just make a seperate music pack for those who wanna get it :lol:

I do have some Quake 2 music... and one Wolfenstein 3D (main menu) music. And yes, in mp3 format.

The problem with most remixes out there is that people are kind of afraid to try new things - the usual stuff is either a boring 'heavy metal' or 'super techno beat' cliche. Either hardly does the doom music any justice :]
Among the best I've heard so far (albeit not a remix) is Ren's Doom Concerto - fits the doom world snugly.
Also, even hiphop haters should agree that klepka's Waiting does, at least, have an original touch to it. I personally thought it was really good.

Another song that comes to mind is Alice In Chains' - Angry Chair. Not exactly a remix ofcourse, but that song keeps me thinking about gloomy hallways & pink demons - not letting the lyrics sink in too deeply, that is :]

Anyway, I'm pretty curious what may be heard - a math-rock remix would kick arse, undoubtedly!

amen

off-topic: i'm suprised noone has complained that my new avatar is dreadful, horrid, etc :P

I would agree with you, Tabun, if we were talking about remixes for the sake of remixes, but we're talking about remixes for the sake of scoring Generations. Heavy metal and super techno may be cliche, but that's basically what Quake's music is. As far as I'm concerned a metal or techno remix of a Doom song fits the bill as long as it doesn't sound like a midi and is either fairly agrressive or fairly atmospheric. We're looking for good fraggin tunes, not a work of art.

I'm more partial to metal, because it usually carries over the agression and energy required for the job a lot more than a techno remix. Techno remixes can work, but they usually have to be more industrial and they usually are too relaxed. For example, compair thiese 2 remixes of Runnin:

http://bart.overclocked.org/mix.php?song=runhellx (http://bart.overclocked.org/mix.php?song=runhellx)
http://www.angelfire.com/super/wimdenherde...mguitarsolo.mp3 (http://www.angelfire.com/super/wimdenherder/tab/wimdenherder_doomguitarsolo.mp3)

The first one is a good song, its even kinda atmospheric, but it doesn't really make me wanna kill stuff. The second one is a little 80s for my tastes, but I think it works a lot better as deathmatch music.

Now the reason I bring up remixes is because I assume copyright would not allow Gen to use the original music. If not, for the Quake 1 and 2 music we could just rip it off the cds. I allready have all of them saved as mp3s, it'd be just a matter of converting them to the right files. I suppose the original Doom music could be utilized by using the Doomworld mp3s (the ones where they ran the midis through a GOOD sound card) but the sound quality is still a little dated. I don't know about Wolfenstein music since I never played it.

Hehehe - I'm always looking for art, when it comes to that. Quake 2 music was pretty much 'metal', so I guess whatever has that trying-to-be-rough sound to it goes perfectly. But an imperial-techno-breakbeat-march for a wolf map? (just to pick an example) My point wasn't just that remixes could be uninspired (after all, who dares to expect something fresh in this world of hurt ;) - but that most of it wouldn't fit the respective generations-worlds.

I agree that fragging-tunes should be atmospherical and, in some cases, agressive. I was only referring to Doom's original score because it's the best set of game tracks I've ever heard, and never relied on agressive instrumental overdose. It was most atmospheric and I could (and can) frag to that without problems.
Maybe this is/would be more important for resurgence though - without music to give a gloomy feel singleplayer wouldn't be the same :]

It's mostly personal preference - but I'm glad some ppl agree

Sure i whould like to add remakes of music in my maps, but as con said .wav takes a lot of space, i don't know if it's possible to code mp3 support in q3. i could update The Abandoned base with custom music however that whould require everyone to download it again, also the one in gen mappack 2 wont work with the updated one.

Also you can't change the music on the maps if you don't have the .map file unless there's a BSP tweak to do this.

I, for one, would be willing to spend the extra d/l time for music.

Back to what Tabun said, I think indeed the stuff you're talking about it more pertaining to resurgence. For example, with Doom, dark, atmospheric, orchestrated peices are exactly what would fit with a single player experience like resurgence. However, I think for deathmatch, a certain amount of rockin and agression is required to keep the action going. I suppose Q1 is an example of an exception, since much of the music was slow and suspensefull, but I see that hapening less so with Doom music, and certainly it's hard to pull off.

So to express what I mean simply, I think the deathmatch tracks should sound more or less like Sonic Mayhem/Frontline Assembly's Quake 3 music (or rather, as much so as possible) with distorted guitar, pulse pounding racing drum beat, etc. On the other hand resurgence tracks should be as close to spirit of the original music and game as possible.

I'm thinking goth rock here...

Is it actually all right to use the original musics in Q1 or 2, but add some other sounds/musics to make it like a remix??

didnt I post a link once with all the doomusic on the old forums once ??
I all chnged the mp3 and mp2 files towav format.
works fine .but yes its big then. very big .

I have all the Doom music (even the stuff from Doom 64, hehe) on a CD somewhere... I think it's with my Radiant stuff. They're all in wav format, sound pretty darn good too  :D

Funny you mention that- me too.

Yeah, the problem is drawing the line between a remix, and a rip with a few extra sounds. I suppose you could just add a couple extra beats to the drums and it would constitute a remix, but I don't know where Id would stand on this or if they would even pay attention.

write them a letter . and ask

I'm surprised no one's done a QuakeAmp or something yet. For Unreal Tournament, someone made a winamp-type add on that played mp3s or sm3s durring the game. You could make a play list and could have songs change when they ended, or have them repeat till the next map then change.

Anyway, if there was a program like this for Quake, this could be our answer. If you could set a playlist with a specific song for each map, then you could set the default songs for the Q3 maps, and then set custom mp3s for the Gen maps. Too bad it doesn't exist. There is a program called QuakeWamp, but all it does is let you play, pause, stop and skip winamp with key binds within quake.

Rocket Arena has something like this, an mp3 player built in.
I dont think it does those things though, it might, but i doubt it

I like the tune that was in the pit in doom2. If I remember correctly it was called theDA.mid. The pit of course being map 09 right after tricks and traps. Quake 2 had some really good tracks too. I especially like the one that played in the Guardhouse and later in the Meat Processing Plant. One I really liked the sound of was the music going in the first Terminator movie when Arnold was clearing out the LAPD building, but of course that would belong on a Terminator game. Doom episode2 level 2 had a really good, creepy tune especially the Super Nintendo version. B)

A few problems here.  Let me start off by saying any direct rips of original game music is OUT for legal reasons.  As for how music works, music is cued by the map not the game code.  If the mapper has assigned no music file when creating the .bsp no music will play.  Since maps are being kept in separate packs from the Generations mod itself we CANNOT make code provisions for specific maps.  This is also for legal reasons since Id has not made their position clear regarding "remake" maps.

As for MP3 support, forget it, it's not happening in Generations.  In order for Rocket Arena to have MP3 support they had to do two things:  First they had to incorporate Winamp's MP3 codecs into the Q3 source.  That leads to the second thing:  They had to compile their mod as .dll files instead of .qvm files.  Why does this matter?  .qvm's are a LOT harder to hack into that .dll's since .dll's leave Q3 open to external function calls into Windows.  That's the ONLY reason the mp3 support works.  It also means cheaters galore.  Mods compiled with .qvm files are in theory a LOT less hackable by script kiddies and cheaters since they work in conjunction with Pure Server.  If you want different tunes to play while fragging, then I would suggest popping in a CD or running Winamp in the background and turning down the in-game music volume.

In the end it's going to be up to the individual mappers to decide what music to use outside of the normal Quake 3 music.  Generations is a large download as it is, and so are the maps.  I see no reason to bombard people with 100 to 200 megs of music to go with 8 or 9 playable maps that would otherwise take up maybe 40 to 60 megs. :(

or do like me and download all the doomusic mp3 format . convert them to wav and put them in your quake 3 folder.

Games Keeper why do u convert them into .wav? you can't play them in q3 anyway, unless you replace id's orig. music..

I but it did work (just type in /play nameofwav.wav and it plays it .
 :huh:

Ah i tought u replaced the id music, k then i understand :)

I don't think it would be too tough for Q3 to send a command to Winamp to play a certain song upon loading a certain map. It doesn't have to be part of the actual mapper-defined music if the in-game music is turned down and Quake is just telling winamp to play a file.

Gnam, the point is sending commands OUTSIDE of Q3 requires a .dll build.  Q3's I/O works like this:

Virtual Machine --> Quake3.exe
Virtual Machine <-- Quake3.exe

For parsing or writing to a file, it works like this:

Virtual Machine --> Quake3.exe --> file (.txt or .cfg)
Virtual Machine <-- Quake3.exe <-- file (.txt or .cfg)

This ensures that any/all system calls are native to the Quake 3 engine so that cgame.qvm CANNOT talk to an external module.  This prevents a whole host of cheats.  Since Quake3.exe does not have a trap_ function to talk to another program that can be called from inside a VM it would require compiling a .dll file, which opens the door to cheaters and script kiddies to write all sorts of aimbots, etc.  MP3 support is a dead issue.

AH YES, the good ol' legal crap that got you guys in hot water the first time. How did Mykul put his rendition of DEAD.mid on the Not Quite Earth map?? Did he make it from scratch, or is he some kind of DJ recording wizard???? Who wants to hear old soundblaster pro junk anyway if they don't have to? Maybe you can make your own thoroughly mutilated versions to put in maps. And if there's any great composers among you, make something new by all means. I remember one tune in particular from the first Doom that I thought code be reworked and made into some really hot sh*t. I can't remember what maps it was in or what the id guys called it, but it sounded like if it was made with real drums and had a few tweaks it would rock.

Vadertime: I think Ampehtamine made the song.

yes, amphetamine made that remix for myk's map. The full version is a bit longer than the 30-second loop played in mykul's map though.

I found the one is was thinking of. It's in DOOM episodes 1 and 3 level 6. Mt Erebus and the Phobos computer lab. Another good tune is in the Deimos Anomaly, episode2 level1. Has amphetamine remixed those too? If he hasn't tell "speed" those would be 2 kick*ss remixes. :D