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http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-5571898.html (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-5571898.html)

I see an advanced  "1984" going on here...

I know people think some of us prophecy watchers are nuts for saying this sort of thing will lead up to the Mark of the Beast, but the next time someone says Republicans are puppets of the "ultra-right" Christian conservatives just ask why such people would implement something that we "nutballs" view as paving the way for something we see as entirely evil.  A lot of Republicans just a bunch of dense, power-hungry politicians like a lot of Democrats, and blow whichever way the political winds are going, and if anyone thinks I'm a Republican parrot I'll tell you flat out that I am opposed to this sort of thing 100%.  They don't need it for Homeland Security, that's utter bullshit.  I know why they're doing this, and yes there's some good intentions in there too but people also had good intentions when they split the atom.  If this goes forward it just means more privacy invasion, and loss of rights.  People will be tracked once National ID cards start being handed out.  Instead of "papers please" you'll start hearing "card please".  No wonder the Liberty Bell has a crack in it.

Jess:  aye, it's headed that way.  I remember when people said "Oh, Social Security numbers won't be used as a form of ID and to track people."  Now try holding a job or bank account without one.  Now you have to have a SS number to get this ID if this passes, and without one you're screwed.  The fact that they're suggesting RFID tags particularly disturbs me, as scanners can be placed anywhere for those things, so with enough computer power you could be tracked without your knowledge, anywhere you go.  Combine that with talk of putting black boxes in cars, etc.  All that runs through my head is this image of Number 6 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/cinema/features/the-prisoner.shtml) declaring "I am not a number, I am a free man!"

I think anyone who values their freedom should contact their representatives and especially senators and blast them on this.  Tell them you don't want it.  You may think it falls on deaf ears, but when it comes to losing their job they may have a change of heart if enough people squawk and make threats of voting "for the other guy".

I agree with Pho 100%.I don't have anything to hide but don't want to be "tracked".Good grief,I think that's going a bit to far.What's next? Implanted computer chips in your skull?Oops better not give em any more ideas...

You don't have to give them that idea. The idea of implanting a chip under a person's skin as a form of identification has been being tossed around for years. This is just a step in that direction.

Scary Stuff


If I was president this wouldn't happen  ;)

You also wouldn't be a president for long. Or at least not a living one ;]
But that's an entirely different story altogether...
In today's society, we're dangerously close to being considered numbers -- the way of the database. Nobody's going to implant a chip in me, that's for sure, I'll just have to 'head for the hills' if it ever comes to that :/ -- The real scary part is where the masses will simply go for it, out of 'fear for terrorism' and suchlike, and again propaganda will be the driving force behind it all. Ick.

Try reading the 'brave free men' trilogy by jack vance

Every one gets a coller around the neck at birth, that expands as you grow. apart from all the exspected things it can blow your head off if the goverment decide. Its a small price to pay to defeat crime they say.

Tab:  Yes, and how many people will get smart cards or eventually RFID implants so they don't have to go through a checkout?  Everyone here might consider checking out http://www.spychips.com/ (http://www.spychips.com/) and the CASPAIN (http://www.spychips.com/) page.  They link to news sources in all their articles so if you want the dirt on what's going on behind the scenes this is a good place to start.

I hope everyone who doesn't understand why some Americans insist on owning firearms might have a better grasp on at least one part of it now.  It's this sort of thing that scares people into wanting assault rifles for the day "when they come knocking on the door."  Government is there to protect rights, not trample on them.  Government should serve the people, not enslave them, and that's exactly where this sort of scheme is headed if it follows the worst-case scenario.  When the government stops serving the people, then the people have the right and responsibility to institute a new one, by whatever means necessary, peacefully if possible, but if not possible then it's time for a revolution.  That's what the US Declaration of Independence was about, and what the US Constitution and Bill of Rights was drafted to protect against.  "Give me liberty, or give me death" sound familiar?

Right now there are peaceful and legal options to fight against this.  Let's not wait until they're forcing people at gunpoint to get ID cards and chips to stand up against this.

Global fascism is on the rise. The UN is going make a global police state some day where anyone can be accused of a crime for anything and jailed, and the UN charter will replace the constitution and ban guns and home schooling, and brainwash kids :surprise:

infowars.com has some good info about this shit lol conspiracy theorys are not something to say it will never happen

here are some interesting links i found
http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/nat_id...pose_hr_418.htm (http://www.infowars.com/articles/ps/nat_id_oppose_hr_418.htm)
http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html (http://www.sonic.net/sentinel/gvcon6.html)
http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cf...&contentid=1648 (http://www.conspiracyplanet.com/channel.cfm?channelid=67&contentid=1648) What will you do when its too late
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Ord...28conspiracy%29 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_World_Ord...28conspiracy%29) all about the new world order conspiracy
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich (http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/reich) damn this is errie if true

Opps dont forget the patriot act 1 and 2 thats very very unnerving  :ninja:

I classify infowars under "cooky", since there's a lot of way out-there stuff that Alex Jones handles, and so many conspiracy theories are rooted in political biased paranoia that real conspiracies tend to fly under the radar.  There's so much going on in the world at any one time that it's becoming increasingly harder to sort out the facts from the spin.  Sometimes what seems least plausible is what is true, whereas what sounds reasonable is way off the mark, and then sometimes a fish is just a fish.  The professional intelligence agencies got it wrong for the last 3 years, so I'd say anything's possible at this point.  Lord knows I've seen stranger things than probably anyone else here, so I don't discount anything as possible, even if extremely remote.  I'll be skeptical, but if there's evidence supporting something - like with this whole ID card scheme - then to me that's cause to treat it seriously.

obligatory "John Titor warned us about this!"

Now that's out of the way, seriously...Fascinating article (and scary as hell).  I agree with Pho on this...there's no real practical reason this is needed to combat terrorism...it really hits on an issue that annoys me.  A lot of people after 9-11 have used that tragedy to push their own agendas...and a lot of those agendas don't really tie into 9-11 or security or terrorism at all...and that really ticks me off.  Its tantamount (IMHO) to taking a whiz on the wreckage at ground zero; its just wrong.  We face real dangers and drastic measures may need to be taken at times...BUT a national ID card (which this essentially is a back-door to) doesn't help at all with those dangers...its a classic example of bait and switch; the shell game if you will.  On one hand you say "OMG we're all going to die...cower in fear" and on the other hand you say "buy glow in the dark condoms for extra protection."  Ok, on that note...maybe I need to get more sleep.

Edit: Oh btw, nice Prisoner reference Pho...I've always loved that show!

For those who are too young or otherwise unfamiliar with the quote Phoenix referenced, you can listen to it (http://www.elitehost.org/the_prisoner.mp3).

This kinda shit gets on my nerves though.  Makes a little part of me want to take my old gas-guzzling non-electronic truck and head for the hills with both tanks full, all the non-perishable food I can find, my rifle, and any other ordnance I can get my hands on.

So what's this Yurpean National ID I keep hearing about?

No, really, what is it? I have never heard any efforts by the EU, aside from several politicians within member states, proposing a national ID card. Meanwhile, the sporking House of the federal government is pushing for the same for all states. Where's our Liberal Media when you need it?

And wasn't the Prisoner thing parodied in the Simpsons? I am unfamiliar with the original.

It's classic, Assamite, I think you'd like the show very much.  It makes you think, and it's constantly throwing curves.  Just when you think you have Number 6 figured out, he does something completely off the wall.

Oh, and here's a good one to add to this subject:
Source:  http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/14/...ain674120.shtml (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/02/14/eveningnews/main674120.shtml)

"We're not getting enough of your money so let's punish you for it."  Wouldn't it be nice if employees could say "I'm raising my taxes on you, Mr. Employer, for my services rendered."  No, instead companies raise prices on a whim, government raises taxes on a whim, and you (the little guy) are screwed yet again.  "Oh, and by the way, we're going to track everything you do to punish you for being fuel conscious, and 'Mr. I own a classic car', guess what?  Turn the sucker in, or go to jail because we say so."  It's nice to have freedom, isn't it?

So let's see, a national ID card linked to your SS number, GPS units in every car, RFID tags in all the products you buy, and in Mexico they're already putting RFID chips in government officials (yes, inside people's bodies).  Anyone ever hear of Digital Angel, you know, put a chip in your kid so you can recover him/her if kidnapped or lost, just like people do with pets and farm livestock?  Anyone hate check-out lines?  Just walk through the scanner (it automatically scans your groceries with RFID tags in their packaging), swipe your hand over the confirmation pannel, and off you go.  No lines, no cashiers, no waiting.  There's voluntary incentive.  Let's chip criminals so we can recover them if they escape prison, or security guards or anyone with security clearance.  After all, you'd have to surgically remove the chip to get through the checkpoint, and then there's the facial recognition scanner (current technology, its already used heavily in casinos). There's mandatory incentive.  All that's left is the question of implementation, and removal of public opposition.  I'll leave that to your own speculation as to how that could come about.  I just wonder how far do you all think this will go, and how fast?

In this situation I completely agree with Assamite.  Why the hell isn't anybody in the press decrying the civil liberties implications of all of this, left or right-wing?  Silence sometimes speaks louder than words...[/color]