Wirehead Studios

Update: 23 of may BETA 5

Changelog:
req2dm2_b5 (BETA 5)
ADDED: Music (fla22k_05.wav)
ADDED: A player_clip to the ceiling at the quad room.
ADDED: A player_clip to the ceiling at the RL room players cannot stand on the "q2 quad" anymore.
ADDED: Player clip at the new wall ornaments (super shotgun/grenade tower).
ADDED: An "unreachable" Outside area.
ADDED: New wall details.
ADDED: item_botroam bots should roam the map better.
ADDED: Experimental "angel fish" trains.
FIXED: Doubble spawn of lightning boxes.
FIXED: Machine gun colliding into a wall.(SSG tower)
FIXED: Cracking curve brush.
FIXED: Curve brush "sparklie"
FIXED: Quad detail, texture was misaligned
FIXED: HOM on floor (GL tower)
FIXED: Shadow casted wrong in quad pool. (Fans)
CHANGED: Lights underwater area LG gun,lights do not stick out anymore.
CHANGED: Texture on moving plat RA/BFG room changed.
CHANGED: "graniy texture" with a new one.
CHANGED: turned player_clip into weapon_clip at the dual elevator shafts.
CHANGED: Re-textured the sides of the func_train texture, was misaligned and i think this looks better instead of trying to aligning the current texture.
CHANGED: Light Map.
GEOMETRY CHANGE: Ladder was too wide.
REMOVED: an experimental styled light (flickering lights).
REMOVED: Experimental "blasted" wall.
REMOVED: 2 map models


Well i decided to release a public beta a little earlier than i thought anyways download it here:
http://hem.passagen.se/macleod2/quake3/map...eq2dm2_beta.htm (http://hem.passagen.se/macleod2/quake3/maps/beta/req2dm2_beta.htm)

As always beware of nast swedish commercial!!! :(

Any feedback whould be very welcome! :) the map is pretty much done cept some small things and hopefully you won't find that many bugs.

If you have any suggestions please post them here!

And last: Enjoy! :)

Ok. You know I love the map, so I won't shower you in compliments again, although they still count! ;]

Just a list of notes, then:

(http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/req2dm2_2_01.jpg)(http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/req2dm2_2_02.jpg)

In these two pictures you can see a very grainy, gray texture. I think it's quite out of place in this map, and something more like smooth metal would be easier on the eyes..

(http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/req2dm2_2_03.jpg)

I still think this looks out of place, too angular to make for realistic damage..

(http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/req2dm2_2_04.jpg)

The red/black texture is not aligned (see blue line), this is quite noticeable from the area, as the lift is a focal point.

(http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/req2dm2_2_05.jpg)
(http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/req2dm2_2_06.jpg)

I admire the work you put in making those edge-decorations (upper), but I fear I don't think they look very good here.. An edge like seen on the lower picture would be more in the style of the rest of the map and surroundings..

--

I played on it for 40 minutes with Alu, and we both feel it to be a marvelous rendering of the old q2 map. Items and weapons placement seems fine to us. There's only one other thing we both agreed on; although (some?) of the ladders have been fixed to be accessible from the sides, one still can't run up to the side of a ladder to climb it, it only works when jumping into it at a certain height, or higher. That kind of takes away the possibility of some tactical approaches.. But other than that, A-OK HERR KOMMANDANT!

Alright! thanks tab! :) This is the kind of feedback i need!
I'll fix those mis aligned textures..however im not sure with which texture i should replace the black/grainy texture...


So far i've seen there's about 25 ppls that has been viewing this thread but NONE except tab left me some feedback...come on guys!

Awesome Boot.... simpleh awshum.

Anyways, in playtesting I found a couple o' things.
A simply fixed bug and a small suggestion.

(http://img194.exs.cx/img194/9418/shot02250hx.th.jpg) (http://img194.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img194&image=shot02250hx.jpg)

My suggestion here, shift the texture of the floor up a bit and to the left in relation to the screenshot so that the tile thats raised is in line with the stuff under it. That is if the scaling is the same. If not, ignore me :)

(http://img157.exs.cx/img157/3200/shot02269qn.th.jpg) (http://img157.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img157&image=shot02269qn.jpg)

And as you can see here, my friendly assistant Rampage has demonstrated that the lamp models near the GL are not clipped :)

PS: Make with clickage for larger pics

On that first item, I actually think this looks good. I did not assume it was intended to be an upraised bit out of the underlyng texture, but a small slab riveted on top of it.

I wonder if it would be possible to jump to the next level if the lamps are clipped.. :]

I'll take a look at it today.

I'll take a peak at it as well.

Daed:  it was meant to be that way, just somekind of "spawn pad"

And there is a reason why i did not clip the lamps, simply cuz if i do you can jump to the next level so either the lamp will be gone or it will stay as it is :)

Ran through the level.  Problems first, kudos last since I love to end on the higher notes. Click the pics for zoomed-in views.  ;)



Still got the "hall of mirrors" from the skybox floor.  Please, please fix this!



You accidentally spawned an extra box of lightning ammo here on top of an already existing one.  It's the spawn point toward the BFG/Red Armor tower.



These could use a projectile clip.



More of that "ugly texture" tab was talking about. (Yes, I look at high places nobody else would!)



These light boxes impede movement in the water.  I tend to cling to the ceiling a little when swimming to avoid grenades, and if I'm backing up under the water I know I don't want to get stuck on one of these if I'm being shot at.  I think a recessed light as opposed to projections would work better, or else make them flush with the ceiling.



Now this was interesting to see!  The bots actually use the ladders on this map.  I have never seen bots use ladders on any other Q3 map.  Whatever you did, I like it.  I've seen them use the ladder here, and the ones in the Quad room.  The bots in general run the map a bit.  They'll cluster up and fight in the water if there's a fight to be had, and are occasionally stupid around the lifts, but they tend to roam the map more than in any other Tokay's remake I've seen so far, or at least Doom, Grunt, and Ranger did.

I agree the lamps should not be clipped since that would impede movement around the grenade launcher.  I don't think they're necessary myself, but I won't cry if they're present or omitted either way.  I did not notice any item placement issues other than the duplicated lightning ammo box in the water.  Weapon, health, armor, and ammo all feel good.  Map geometry feels good.  This map feels like a proper tribute to Tokay's Towers now, bugs not withstanding. :thumb:

Poenix: Yea that's cuz the sky box has no "bottom" i still need to find a good skybox i'll take a look on the net and see what i can find!

Opps that's not good.. i'll have a look at it!

I thougt i did clip that elevator shaft...guess i missed it! will fix it!

The ugly texture will be replaced..with something don't know what i should use yet

hehe well actually the bots think the ladders are stairs i added some really tiny brushes around the ladders using the bot clip and voila! the bot's can climb em..only bad part is that they actually move faster than a player could climb those ladders..but i guess that's not an real issue here.

I don't know why bots are so attracted to water.. i've seen this on several maps i guess they just wants to wash off all that blood and those gibblets.. :P but it really annoys me..but then again i really hate the q3 bots. but i'll try to make them roam the level a bit better

Anyways thanks all for the feedback!

Great emulation of the ever so classic map!  :)

- I agree that the grainy texture is out of place, perhaps replace it with a grey-blue tinted concrete texture or a red would work.

- The lights in the water area, made me collide alot of times, which resulted in many a death. I personally like those other lights located outside the entry point next to the stairs better.

- The texture in the circly room with the Quad, is a little bland, use your incrediable wall geometry talent on that.   :surprise:

- about the award side climbing ladder thing, I think it is appropriate, because people can climb up a pole if you look at it that way.

Other then that it's really awsome, I planned to play a half-hour, and before I knew it, 2 hours blew by. It will have it's moments and great battles in many future forum games to come.
One note, slipgate is the king of this map, the shaft. Ironically, strogg finished last, then, arena, earth, then doom, then slipgate.

Exellent work!

Well with bots, it's a no brainer, they tend to use that rocket launcher better.  For real players, well, there's only one way to find out!

Actually I hooked up with some of my buddies for a little LAN party.   :ownage:
I switched to strogg, then I lost. but I stink as strogg anyway.

Little Washu: Thanks for the feedback!I know im still trying to come up with an idea for that quad room im not sure yet what im gonna do with it.

Everyone: Anyways some of you said it isnt possible to climb one ladder at the side..can anyone take a screenshot of that ladder? i took a look at em today and every ladder should be possible to climb on the sides....

I did fix some things today now i just need to find another sky...or come up with something else and i might have an idea! :)

On the sides-of-ladders: The ladder in the horizontal-lift/RA/Railgun/BFG area and the ladder near the plasmagun. Do the following to see what I mean: Hug the wall, run up to the ladder, keep going and look up. You'll get half-stuck in the ladder, but going up? no way, hose :]
as soon as you move away from the wall and approach the ladders from  the front, it seems to work.

Ok i'll have a look at it! thanks!

Ok i've updated the map

Changelog:
req2dm2_b5 (BETA 5)
ADDED: Music (fla22k_05.wav)
ADDED: A player_clip to the ceiling at the quad room.
ADDED: A player_clip to the ceiling at the RL room players cannot stand on the "q2 quad" anymore.
ADDED: Player clip at the new wall ornaments (super shotgun/grenade tower).
ADDED: An "unreachable" Outside area.
ADDED: New wall details.
ADDED: item_botroam bots should roam the map better.
ADDED: Experimental "angel fish" trains.
FIXED: Doubble spawn of lightning boxes.
FIXED: Machine gun colliding into a wall.(SSG tower)
FIXED: Cracking curve brush.
FIXED: Curve brush "sparklie"
FIXED: Quad detail, texture was misaligned
FIXED: HOM on floor (GL tower)
FIXED: Shadow casted wrong in quad pool. (Fans)
CHANGED: Lights underwater area LG gun,lights do not stick out anymore.
CHANGED: Texture on moving plat RA/BFG room changed.
CHANGED: "graniy texture" with a new one.
CHANGED: turned player_clip into weapon_clip at the dual elevator shafts.
CHANGED: Re-textured the sides of the func_train texture, was misaligned and i think this looks better instead of trying to aligning the current texture.
CHANGED: Light Map.
GEOMETRY CHANGE: Ladder was too wide.
REMOVED: an experimental styled light (flickering lights).
REMOVED: Experimental "blasted" wall.
REMOVED: 2 map models

Download it here!

Woot! It's really getting there!

My usual list of comments, without screenies this time, I'm afraid:

- I like the changes you've made overall: the solution to the HOM problem in the GL tower is especially nice.
- The texture misalignment on the quad-lift is fixed nicely. I'm afraid I still see the old problem on 1) the MH pedestal, 2) the RA/Rail/BFG-room lifts, 3) the small RL-room lift.
- The wall-ornaments in the SSG room look pretty. I do keep jumping into them and falling down into the GL pit when I'm trying to make a jump into a doorway from the the MH room or niche across, so if they could be de-solidized or something, that'd be sweet.
- The big vertical lights in the RA/Rail/BFG room (1st floor) could use some clip-work.

That's about it. Looking sharp Reb, looking forward to the release!

EDIT: The horizontal lift in the RA/Rail/BFG-room has the texture misalignment too, but I forgot to add that to the list :]

The 2 lifts by the shotgun still have the HOM sky.  I like how you made the wall textures 3-D.  And, it's cool to see the angelfish swimming around that you were talking about. :-).
This is definitely, by far, the best looking version of Tokay's Towers, even tho it isn't completely in it's final state.  Oh yeah, and like Tabun said.. those vertical fluorescent lights could use clipping, so when I have my back to 'em and I'm trying to strafe...  I don't/won't get caught on them.

And Tabun's nice textures add a lot to the level's atmosphere as well :smirk: .

 :thumb: <3   :thumb:

Tabun: alright i'll take a look at those misaligned textures.
Hmm i'll see if it's possible to make those wall ornaments non-solid, tho im afraid you'll pass thru them to much thus see the inside of the brush but i'll see what i can do.

Hollowpoint: Ok i'll see what i can do with that HOM sky.

But i thought there whould be more issues than this! :) I guess the next version will be v1.0! :) I don't think i can add much more to this level regarding details..sure i can make it even more detailed but i feel it's a nice balance to things as it is, see no really need to go further there.

Anyways thanks for the feedback!

Oops, forgot another little thing: There's some Z-fighting on the two big RA/Rail/BFG-room lifts, when they're in the lowest position..

Yeah i know im going to fix that, but that's "minor" things..and just so boring to fix it.. so i didnt want to do it :P but thanks for the reminder! :)

Ahhhh yes... the minor things are always boring. Probably why I haven't touched my POS in about 2 weeks.

In any case... lookin good, yo. Everything to be said has been said already. :)

I fired the level up in vanilla q3 and saw some stuff missing, according to the console.  The texture pool3d_6e.tga and the shader pool_side3.  I think those are probably in other maps in the gen mappack, so I suppose it doesn't matter all that much.  Thought I'd mention it anyway.

Spawn: so true :)

hollowpoint: Huh? now that's weird..i don't use those textures..or maybe the ID liquid shader is broken..anyways i'll have a look at it!

It looks very nice. Specially the outside view from the elevator and the QII logo on the roof. BUT i think that the bots concentrate too much on the lightning gun spawn underwater. Besides that, i think it's done.

Bots are stupid period. if you make a map that contains water and a few items bots will be attracted to it ..and sometimes they are even more stupid and doesnt even try to get some air and just drown... not much i can do about it i wish i could give certain entites a zero weight :/