Print Page - SPACE MEAT! (This time spoiler free!)

Title: SPACE MEAT! (This time spoiler free!)
Post by: Kenny_WHS on 2005-06-06, 04:38

Sorry about the spoiler Pho, I never thought that you or anybody else here for that matter have not played Doom3 yet, trust me it was not intentional. That being said, now without spoilers and with extra Doom3 physics insanity, I present SPACE MEAT!
(http://www.speakeasy.org/~leemon/spacemeat.jpg)

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-06, 05:03

OMFG! Where and how can you do that! Gotta know. 1 FPS. Wow, lots o' chunks.

Very cool man. :thumb: <3 :thumb:

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-06-06, 05:46

Gibtastic! Now I'm hungry...

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Woodsman on 2005-06-06, 07:05

Save a cow eat a demon.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: scalliano on 2005-06-06, 13:42

DAMN!! What the hell hardware are you running?!

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Lopson on 2005-06-06, 15:44

All you need is to fry it all with the plasma gun :) .

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-06-06, 15:54

Give it to us rrrrraw, and wrrrrrriggling! :)~

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-06, 18:22

And here I forgot my spoon.....

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Lordbane2110 on 2005-06-06, 20:30

nice

i think i know where that is

is it delta labs ?

if so i can probably get the same pic going

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Dr. Jones on 2005-06-06, 20:48

knowing what kenny's doing, i'm betting that's a test map - so you can't get that going (unless you get your map on) ;)

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-06, 21:51

Haven't seen an effect like that on DooM 3 before... Even by popping something close range with the BFG. God mode on of course. Too much fun spawning tons of zombies and then mowing them down with various weapons. Physics in it can get quite comical at times.

Anyway, how do you get all those chunks? And what can you do with them? Looks like a neat diversion...

/me found fork
that'll work :)~

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: NovAReapeR on 2005-06-06, 22:47

forget using a plasma gun :)

use a quake 2 ground zero plasma beam :)

INSTA KENTUCKY FRIED CHICKEN! (http://www.gamershell.com/pc/quake_2_mission_pack_ground_zero/screenshots.html?id=3) :321: :laser:

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-06-06, 23:57

I know this is somewhat :offtopic: but I can't resist doing a weapons rant. The Ground Zero Plasma Beam was a very inefficient weapon. Compare the specs:

Plasma Beam:
Damage per shot: 15
Cells used per shot: 2
Efficiency: 7.5

Hyperblaster:
Damage per shot: 20 (15 for deathmatch)
Cells used per shot: 1
Efficiency: 20 (15 for deathmatch)

Reckoning Ion Ripper:
Damage per shot: 30
Cells used per shot: 2
Efficiency: 15

BFG10K:
Damage per shot: 500 (200 for deathmatch)
Splash damage per shot: 150 to 200, depending on distance from impact
Splash damage radius: 100 units
Flash damage: 0 to 200, depending on distance from blast
Flash damage radius: 1000 units
Tracer damage: 100 per second (50 per second for deathmatch)
Tracer range: 256 units
Max possible damage: 696 (404 deathmatch) from direct hit, taken from in-game testing.
Cells uses per shot: 50
Max Efficiency for a single, direct hit: 13.92 (8.08 deathmatch)

The hyperblaster and ion ripper are actually the most efficient of the energy guns. The mighty BFG10K is actually a lot less efficient than one might think , but what it lacks in efficiency it more than makes up for in multi-target and quick-kill potential. The plasma beam comes in LAST, being the least efficient of the guns. The ion ripper is equally efficient as the hyper in deathmatch, but it refires slower. It does have the nice effect of shooting around corners though. ;)

That being said (and to bring this back ontopic) if you wanted to cook something the hyper is better than the plasma beam. Now, for a room full of meat like that, one shot from the BFG10K would pretty much do the trick with the most efficiency, though how thorough it would cook the meat at the outside and whether the meat closest to the middle would be edible or completely carbonized is a very good question. ;)

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: NovAReapeR on 2005-06-07, 01:10

whered u get those stats? the plasma beam doesnt fire "shots", it fires a continuois stream of scorching energy. so i'd say its the fastest weapon in the game.
that and its devastating damage, makes it pretty darn powerful

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: scalliano on 2005-06-07, 01:27

The Plasma Beam is to ammo what Garfield is to lasagne.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-06-07, 03:34

NovaReaper: It comes from my understanding of video game logic. The damage stats I took right from the game by firing exactly 1 "shot" at a looped back client in both coop and deathmatch. The other stats I took from the Quake 2 source code. You see, Quake 2 runs on a clock cycle of 100 milliseconds, or 10 cycles per second (10 Hz). The plasma beam does a trace function just like a bullet-based weapon or railgun. It cycles the traces 10 times per second because that's how fast the game can run it. A single trace does 15 points of damage, therefore the firing rate of the weapon is 10 x 15 or 150 points of damage per second. The visual beam effect is just that - a visual beam effect that's run client-side. The client's rendering clock is not synchronized to the server's ticker, it runs much faster (as fast as your video card and CPU can render things) or it would look like a slideshow. Quake 2 also interpolates models which is a good "fake out" to make things look continuous and smooth that really are not. That's why the beam looks nice and smooth, but in reality it's "gappy". It behaves for damage purposes 100% like the Quake 1 lightning bolt as far as how it does the actual hurting.

Now if you want to check me out on this, try this out:

game rogue
map q2dm1
cl_maxfps 1000
give plasma beam
give cells 200
timescale 0.2

This slows the game down dramatically. Fire the plasma beam, and notice your ammo counter decreases in increments of 2. Also notice the little sparks and spark sounds. That's when and where the "beam" is actually trying to hurt something. The beam model is just tacked onto the gun. If you want to test this even further, do this, again with the time slowed down:

map base1
notarget

Stand a decent distance away from something hurtable like a guard or a barrel. Rotate your mouse to drag the beam across it REALLY fast from left to right. Note that if the sparks fall on either side the object receives zero damage. This is because every time it runs the damage trace function it just draws a line out from player to impact point, just like a machinegun. That's all the plasma beam is really. Same with the Q1 shaft, they just are very accurate and have a flashy graphic. Here, take a look at this. You'd think the guard would notice if it were a "continuous" beam, right? ;)

Edit: I also just snagged the Rogue source code for Ground Zero. Here's a few snippets, greatly condensed and simplified for space consideration:

Code:

// pgm - this now uses ent->client->pers.weapon->quantity like all the other weapons
//#define HEATBEAM_AMMO_USE  2  
#define	HEATBEAM_DM_DMG  	15
#define HEATBEAM_SP_DMG  	15

/*
=================
fire_heat

Fires a single heat beam.  Zap.
=================
*/
void fire_heat (edict_t *self, vec3_t start, vec3_t aimdir, vec3_t offset, int damage, int kick, qboolean monster)
{
	if (monster)
  fire_beams (self, start, aimdir, offset, damage, kick, TE_MONSTER_HEATBEAM, TE_HEATBEAM_SPARKS, MOD_HEATBEAM);
	else
  fire_beams (self, start, aimdir, offset, damage, kick, TE_HEATBEAM, TE_HEATBEAM_SPARKS, MOD_HEATBEAM);
}

// *************************
//  HEATBEAM
// *************************

#ifdef INCLUDE_BEAMS
static void fire_beams (edict_t *self, vec3_t start, vec3_t aimdir, vec3_t offset, int damage, int kick, int te_beam, int te_impact, int mod)
{


	vectoangles2 (aimdir, dir);
	AngleVectors (dir, forward, right, up);

	VectorMA (start, 8192, forward, end);

	tr = gi.trace (start, NULL, NULL, end, self, content_mask);

	// send gun puff / flash
	if (!((tr.surface) && (tr.surface->flags & SURF_SKY)))
	{
  if (tr.fraction < 1.0)
  {
  	if (tr.ent->takedamage)
  	{
    T_Damage (tr.ent, self, self, aimdir, tr.endpos, tr.plane.normal, damage, kick, DAMAGE_ENERGY, mod);
  	}

  }
	}

	VectorCopy (endpoint, beam_endpt);
	
	gi.WriteByte (svc_temp_entity);
	gi.WriteByte (te_beam);
	gi.WriteShort (self - g_edicts);
	gi.WritePosition (start);
	gi.WritePosition (beam_endpt);
	gi.multicast (self->s.origin, MULTICAST_ALL);

}

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Kain-Xavier on 2005-06-07, 04:29

Quote from: Phoenix

The hyperblaster and ion ripper are actually the most efficient of the energy guns. The mighty BFG10K is actually a lot less efficient than one might think , but what it lacks in efficiency it more than makes up for in multi-target and quick-kill potential. The plasma beam comes in LAST, being the least efficient of the guns. The ion ripper is equally efficient as the hyper in deathmatch, but it refires slower. It does have the nice effect of shooting around corners though. ;)

I can vouch for that. Pho is horribly good with the Ion Ripper. He tore me to shreds with it, and I wasn't even on his screen most of the time. :)

And for my own self-review...

BFG 10k = Microwave Oven
Hyperblaster = Deep Fryer
Plasma Beam = Rotisserie

Is this correct? :p

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-07, 06:54

Wow, never knew there was so much to the source codes to these games. :thud:

Makes me appretiate Gen alot more.( I need spelling lessons LOL :D )

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-06-07, 19:51

Yes, source code for a game like Quake 3 is large and complex, and that's just the game logic, we don't have access to the rendering engine. Now, the entire Quake 2 game source is available here (http://ftp://ftp.idsoftware.com/idstuff/source/q2source-3.21.zip) if anyone is curious. This is the entire game, renderer and game logic. If you want to see what it takes to write a top-selling video game, take a hard look. If you really want a lesson in humilty, try downloading the source code to Doom sometime. Quake 3's source is fairly modder friendly, Quake 2 is not too bad, Doom is downright cryptic. Personally I wonder if Carmack learned English as a second language after he learned C. O_o

Regarding Gen... our source code is 5.191 megs, compared to normal Q3's 3.06. Our compiled code is 1.96megs (current beta test build), whereas Quake 3 Arena's compiled code is 1.07 megs. It's a pretty hefty increase, but then Gen's got a lot more weapons to deal with, as well as the class support code and physics. Frankly I'm astounded we don't have ten times the number of bugs we do have at this point considering as much as we have in there. Code isn't the whole game though, it just makes the game work. It's the combination of the game logic and the artwork we have that makes Gen what it is.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: NovAReapeR on 2005-06-07, 22:54

wow cool :p

i never knew the plasma beam worked like that :O

guess im not a source guy :P

i also never knew that you can go through quake 2 origional single player with ground zero.

i love fryin hapless guards witrh the plasma beam on god mode!

TY SO MUCH!

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-08, 01:27

That c++ is gonna be a bear this quarter... Had enough fun with VB and what I've seen through that source code and what you (Pho) have mention so far I'm dreading it. O_o But hey, if I can get this down I'll be able to understand a little more of what you guys do. Thank God my major is networking and won't have to mess with code too much.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Kain-Xavier on 2005-06-08, 02:36

Quote from: death_stalker

C++ is definitely a challenging language, but the hardest challenge when working with somebody elses code (especially game code or even a graphic API,) is figuring out what does what, when it does what it does, and how it's related to everything else. Even with great documentation, there still is a lot of trial-and-error, and as you may know Phoenix has had to fix a lot of id's bugs and incomplete features. :p

I personally think VB .NET is a great starter language. It is a lot different than C++, especially memory-management-wise, but the concepts you learn from there will help your understanding methinks. Learning another programming language is much like learning another spoken language, it gets easier with the more of them that you know. Although I imagine Assembly would still be a challenge even with several languages under your belt. :p

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-08, 03:24

One of the main probs our class had so much trouble was we weren't taught too well. I figured most of it out myself. Trial and error. Over my break, and in between Gen sessions, I'll be going over my book again. I'm quite interested in how these program codes work (especially physics like in that space meat pic-to be alittle back on topic) So any code I can look at and try to figure out is pretty cool.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: games keeper on 2005-06-08, 13:43

sombody of my class his yearwork is an OS in C++ .
ok , it aint an operatingsystem since it still needs windows or dos to run it , but it has all the basic functions , word , calculator , messenger over com port , selfmade tankgame , multiplayer tankgame , paint and so on .

its a funny program .

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-06-08, 15:52

Also, keep in mind that C and C++ are different languages. C++ is an extension of C. If you're modifying someone else's code this is very important to keep in mind when you go to attempt to compile it. You can use all C functions in C++ source, but not the other way around.

Anyone learning C or C++ I'd recommend picking up a copy of Ivor Horton's Beginning C++ as a reference. It's very concise and if you get stumped on something (like I did at one point, hence the book acquisition) it may help to de-mystify it for you.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-08, 18:48

Thanks for the info. I'll have to find one of those books.

Though I don't think I know quite so much as to play around with other folks code. YET.
/me gets cocky

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: scalliano on 2005-06-08, 20:25

It's mad how such an intellectual exchange can stem from a pile of gibs :D

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-06-08, 21:43

Well you never know what may get discussed around the dinner table.
GIBS. It's what's for dinner.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: death_stalker on 2005-06-08, 21:44

I still would like to know how that pic was made. <3 :thumb:

-edit-

Quote

GIBS. It's what's for dinner

LOL :D

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: scalliano on 2005-06-09, 00:05

Pass the gravy, please.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-07-04, 21:19

I found some interesting facts out regarding energy weapons in the Quake 2 series:

Armor in Quake 2 protects you less from energy guns than it does regular guns. This means yellow armor is treated like green armor, and red armor is treated like yellow armor when it comes to getting hit by the hyperblaster, BFG, or any other energy gun. Green armor offers ZERO protection. That hyperblaster might only do 15 points of damage in deathmatch, but that means an opponent with red armor is going to get 6 points taken from his health instead of 3 if it were a bullet-based weapon. Got a tank running the level? Pump him full of cells if you get a chance. If he's only got 100 health you just need to cram 17 hyper bolts up his nose to kill him with red armor, and 9 if he's got yellow.

This also makes that Ground Zero plasma beam a bit nastier for deathmatch, seeing that it's pinpoint accurate and has a nearly infinite range. However, it only does 1/2 damage to targets under water.

I was also nosing around the Xatrix source code. The Ion Ripper does a lot more than 30 points of damage in single player. It does 50, or 25 points per cell (more than the hyperblaster!) making it the most efficient energy weapon in the game.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Kingu on 2005-07-04, 21:39

So will that discovery affect hyperblaster in gen ?
Is blaster energy weapon ?

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-07-04, 23:34

Yes, and yes. The energy absorbtion values will be applied only to our upcoming Oldschool Mode. We're working out the details on that. It will not affect the standard play mode.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Kingu on 2005-07-05, 09:18

What weapons damage values will Oldscool mode use, single or multiplayer ?

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-07-05, 15:54

Multiplayer of course. What, you think I want to put in a 150 point damage railgun for the Q2 guy or something?

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Tabun on 2005-07-05, 16:44

I thought that was a given. Don't we want to go 'nuts' there? ;]
j/k

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Lopson on 2005-07-05, 17:28

A Strogg guy with a Sp railgun and quad damage would be fun to watch.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Kingu on 2005-07-05, 20:54

Well I was thinking about earlier damage of railgun,
but mostly about hyperblaster damage and some lesser than rail weapons mayby except blaster.

Can you tell my what exacly are single and multiplayer damage diferences ?

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-07-05, 21:59

Sure:

Blaster:
SP: 10
DM: 15

Hyperblaster:
SP: 20
DM 15

Machinegun:
SP: Raises when shooting
DM: Does not raise when shooting

Chaingun:
SP: 8
DM: 6

Railgun:
SP: 150, 250 knockback
DM: 100, 200 knockback

BFG10K:
SP: 200 direct hit
DM: 500 direct hit

Mission pack weapons

The Reckoning

Ion Ripper:
SP: 50, 60 knockback
DM: 30, 40 knockback

Ground Zero

Chainfist:
SP: 15
DM: 30

Tracker (Disruptor):
SP: 45
DM: 30

Plasma Beam:
SP: 15, 30 knockback
DM: 15, 75 knockback

The Tracker is the Disruptor's projectile. This weapon is disabled but was present on some Rogue servers with a modified compile of the Ground Zero source.

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: NovAReapeR on 2005-07-05, 22:27

wat about the reckoning phalanx :)

Title: Re: SPACE MEAT!
Post by: Phoenix on 2005-07-05, 23:30

No alteration for deathmatch.

Wirehead Studios

General Discussion => Off-Topic => Topic started by: Kenny_WHS on 2005-06-06, 04:38