Wirehead Studios

Legal crew, heads up.

A good buddy of mine, Steady (working on ETF), happened upon some mod team doing the nasty with (among others) our stuff. There's the usual theft, and there's some unacknowledged and illegitimate modifications thrown in the mix.

This time, it's some lousy German mod called 'the demon hunter'. They didn't even bother to translate to English, so if anyone needs a translation of a few lines, I'll be happy to do that for ya.

A lot of pictures on the site are too dark to make out any details, but here's the obvious rips:

http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_sawedoff.php (http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_sawedoff.php)
http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_flamer.php (http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_flamer.php)

They don't have files up, but I'm sure I could pick up some other unauthorized cut and paste work if/when they did/do.

As per usual, let's not run up there like pack of rabid wolves. I'm sure the 'legal experts' can handle this one (that's you, Lee ;)).



Stop pissing me off, lame thieves of the world. Start earning your own keep. Start asking before the taking. Grow a pair and use them. There will come a day when I will simply quit doing your job for you. Better start learning now, or you'll be out of a job by then. Wise the fuck up.

Got it covered:

http://hunter.midian-games.com/forum/showt...php?threadid=33 (http://hunter.midian-games.com/forum/showtopic.php?threadid=33)

I hate (maybe a strong word) when that happens. Why do people do that? They know they'll get busted sooner or later yet they do it anyway. Hopefully atleast one of their team members understands english.

 
Yes that bout sums it up.

*sigh* " Oh look a neat flamethrower! we'll use it for our mod and replace our crappy models! ask premision? gah why whould we need to do a thing like that? everything on the internet is free! don't care if these models whould take hours to model and skin"

This still pisses me off..

When are people gonna learn? I am totally inept at skinning/modelling, but I would NEVER resort to this shite.

Missed a model:  http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_shotgun.php (http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_shotgun.php)

This is MY boomstick, NOT YOURS! Now kindly return it.

you guys all sound like bill gates from 30 years ago
not saying you're wrong though

I wonder how much else is stolen on that site? :P

LooF:  That kind of statement makes me want to rip your intestines out and hang you with them.  There's a huge difference between unpaid artists (like us) who are making ZERO money on something we're doing in our own spare time as a labor of love, and the biggest software thief in the history of software thieves.  Bill Gates made billions on stealing other people's software and selling it as his own and getting away with it.  Comparing us with him when all we're doing is protecting what we legitimately made by our own hard work is akin to calling the Pope a devil worshiper.  You're on really, really thin ice with that remark.  :shout:

there.  for what it's worth, i posted a babelfish translation, touched up by my pre-kindergarten-level knowledge of german.  let's hope that gets the point across in case they didn't figure out what lee meant.

Added the single shotty references for Pho to the post on their forums :)

http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_triple.php (http://hunter.midian-games.com/dht/info_triple.php)

Might wanna take a closer look at this one...

Loof man that was soooo wrong. This has happened too many times to these guys already. I think Pho has already let you have it enough. If I had one more beer in me I might also. And I haven't even done anything for the mod other then play it... :evil:

Funny, I read the entire "team members" page twice, and no where did I see your name under "modeller" or anywhere else for that matter. Is it possible that it isn't "our" models, but "theirs"?

(And to be abundantly clear, before Pho types our eyes off: when I say "theirs" I mean those names listed on the the "team members" page.)

... your point being?  :huh:  He's refering to 'our' things as *our playing, beloved mod*, that we all care for. I didn't ever thought for once that Kruzader would be implying it was his specific work  :)  :rules: ...

I really don't see what you're getting at?

We have stuff. It is our stuff. It has been stolen. By them. It is our stolen stuff. Is this seriously confusing enough to kick up dust?

nope

you made it,
they stole it

they want there asses kicked

Nuff Said

:evil:  Gosh damn mother-f-ing jackoffs. :evil:
Freaking ripoffs they burn in hell. F them all they're all a bunch on mother cracking sobs. Yet another attempt to rip off pho's and tab's work, they will all die.
*exit Washu*

i posted there. hopefully those nazis can make out my anger

honestly, who would actually come to this site, download the mod, steal the weapons and models, and post them on their own site.

NAZI ASSHOLES THATS WHO!

WHOA!!!!

steady there Nova

ok so there assholes

but nazis,  :wtf:  i think that's a bit harsh

sorry
i get kinda angry when a german does something stupid :P

and besides im jewish. NO ONE SAY ANYTHING!

McDeth, please... just please put down the crack pipe.  There's no way in hell they could've independently come up with three (count 'em - three) separate and completely different weapon models that all just coincidentally look exactly like ours.  The only difference I noticed is a different texture on the flamethrower's barrel - but otherwise it was an exact copy, right down to the "flammable" symbol on the fuel tanks.

I think McDeth was referencing Kruzader's post, but it was still uncalled for.

yeah... even in that situation, i agree it was still uncalled for.  kruzader was defending us, and that's what's important - attacking him because of semantics is just rude and uncouth  :shout:

come on phoenix! thats not what I meant :P

reaper: I didn't go and see what you posted there, but jew, pope, preacher or jackrabbit, throwing with laden words like that is uncalled for, aswell as unhelpful. People stealing mod-work are usually jack-asses and almost always fools. That doesn't make them (neo-)nazi's, nor does the fact that they're German. And if stupid assumptions and accusations are what you went and posted on that site, then you've just helped us out of the frying pan and into the fire.

As for the rest: Babelfish translations (unless requested), insults, trolling and the like will hardly help our cause, so think thrice. I thought I didn't have to repeat myself, because I explained it all the last time we got ripped off. The time before that we got to see first hand how it all went wrong, while it could have gone relatively smooth. Considering that this kind of thing will happen at least 10 more times before we make a final release, let's not make it a bumpy ride, shall we?

While we appreciate the enthusiasm of those wanting to flock to our defense, we've dealt with this situation many times before.  I think a better way to take out that frustration would be to load a few bots with some "fun" names and start killing them with impunity.  That way you're honoring Gen with some game time, venting your frustration with some fragging (and "fun" names for bots), and avoiding inflamatory, emotional postings that can actually impede our resolving the problem. :)

Well said Bird Man

Stealing is bad, m'kay?

"im sorry mr. mackey, mkay?"
"mkay."
"were all sorry mr. mackey, mkay?"
"mkay"

yea... i still think we should do something about this, like contact id software or something.

Holy sporksticks people.

The team asked you to not go trolling, and that's the majority of what I see on the linked forum page.

Let's leave the discussion to people who don't come off as flaming troglodytes, 'kay?

mkay

...

So are these guys saying those are NOT your models now or what? I cant tell what they are saying...

Either way, sucks again guys. Sorry to hear about this. Its a shame people cant just use common sense.

Actually, the discussion thread on that site is gone now, and the screenshots are no longer linked on their main page.  The direct links still work, possibly an oversight, but it appears they've complied or are trying to.  If you hit the "back" button from a working pic you can see they're not linked anymore on the main page.

Let's keep an eye on em. I'll be sure to check the contents of their downloadable files later.

Most definitely.  :thumb:

On the news page:

"Da sich im Forum die Jungs von Generations aufgegast haben, wir h?tten Modelle von ihnen geklaut, was nicht der Wahrheit entspricht, hab ich trotzdem beschlossen, erstmal die Modelle aus dem Screens sektor zu nehmen, um mir zu ?berlegen, wie man das am besten bewei?en kann.


PS for americans: You said we are Nazis, but we are not the one, who still kill children for oil! Amy Go Home!"

lol! now they're the ones playing 'victims'

I can't read German very well, is he saying that he merely put the picture there as inspiration for how best to proceed on their own ideas yet to be put into the game?

Can't tell.

PS: YEA GO HOME AMY

Bad Babblefish translation:


Someone can fix that up I'm sure.  As for the Nazi remarks, this is exactly why we asked people to not go postal and start flaming their boards, though I do wonder how Tabun, who is Dutch, figures into the whole "go home" statement?[/color]  :huh:

What they're saying is that they think we're full of shit. Even so, they're removing the screenshots (or actually just the links, as you've noticed), until they have decided how the ownership can be proven.

In other words, they're probably making adjustments now that they consider to be big enough to be able to lie about ownership. That's the only way I can interpret it, because I KNOW what we've made, and who owns it. That would be us.

I'm Dutch, not German, so I don't see any logical error in their 'go home' attitude, other than the obvious one: If you steal someone's stereo, and they come to retrieve it, you don't tell them to go home.

"Thread existiche nicht"

You think they chickened out?

Nope. They seem to have disabled their forum and comments (on the newspage), since they probably got sick of flames posted by our fans. And just when I was about to type up an apology for not being able to contain the latter.. Oh well, can't be helped.

We'll see how it turns out, and what they'll come up with. As long as somewhere along the road those guys are reminded of the fact that none of the WH team members throws around, acknowledges or condones laden terms and insults. Perhaps then they might be reasoned with eventually. We can only hope, ofcourse. (just like we can only hope that they can be reasoned with under other circumstances)

Tab:  The "go home" remark was a blatant dig at Americans for the Iraq war in response to the Nazi comments.  I guess they're assuming all the Gen team is American, and since you're Dutch and your skinwork is part of what's being swiped I was just thinking, go home from where?  The Dutch aren't in Iraq last I checked.  :D

*sigh*

I'm starting to wonder if you should just post those in the team forum.

I think we need some rules of conduct for the thieving bit. It's really hard to get anything done if the fans break out the torches and pitchforks. Come on guys, we know you like it, but PLEASE listen to team members when they say we'll handle it.

If I remember right, blatant trolling is a bannable offense, so keep it clean people.

Gotcha Pho.

I will enforce this in the future. I don't care who you are.

We'll I'm partly to blame for posting this (when I was angry) in the public Generations forum. Although I would like to keep our fans posted of this kind of thing, it is (in general) probably wiser to contact and discuss the matter with the offender(s), before doing so.
Apparantly, I also wasn't clear enough when I stated what I did not want to happen, in my first post. This will also not happen again.

For those who flamed: I groveled and apologized on your behalf, to someone who normally should have been apologizing to us. Just take a second to think about that, will you?

In the meantime, I have received an email from the DH webmaster. It clears a few things up, and it seems to be one of those cases where a freelancer (hopping mods) could not be trusted, and who's submissions weren't or couldn't be checked for being rips. Until further notice, the screens (links) have been taken down, as you've noticed.

A heads up for the team members reading this: the email correspondance is posted in the internal team forum.

Yes, and the webmaster was very upfront and cordial with us in that letter.  See, this is why running off half-cocked and flaming someone is a bad idea.  Misunderstandings cause very bad blood and strife where it's not necessary.  It's better to get the facts before taking action.  You can't put the bullet back in the gun once it leaves the barrel.

For future reference, if anyone runs across what they think may be material of ours then PM either Tabun, ConfusedUs, Makou, LeeMon, or myself, or even better, PM all four of us (use the carbon copy feature).  It will give us a heads up and we can handle it directly, and we will be very grateful.  It's better than posting it publicly and risking a repeat of this debacle.  :)

Oh man guys...

/me slaps forehead

Why does this happen every time? Right at the very beginning of this thread it said NOT to do it but like little children yall do it anyway... Yall need to leave these things to the WHS Team. They know how to solve these things quickly and with little bad blood. The comment on the nazi's... childish. Flame me if you want but I'm part (If not mostly) German. I lived in Germany for 4 years in the 80's. Speak a little German also. Does that make me a Nazi? Hmm, I think you should think before you speak. You know who you are... Sorry WHS Team but had to get that rant out of my system. I think this whole situation has gotten everyones nerves twisted and could have gone alot smoother if other members would read and comply with the ENTIRE post before going off half cocked! Very disappointed.

-EDIT-
Yes the PM idea would be best IMO.

Yes I agree. I kept out of it, and tried to keep my mouth shut in the topic but things just got so out of hand and just plain offensive. Well that's all  from me.

People just love a good flame war when they think they have the moral high ground. The nazi comment was unfortunet because it gave them cause to attack wirehead back. Of course they could have just been called thieving, lying dirt bags and that would have been just as good as nazis.

There must be someway of inserting text into the code so wirehead can Prove that the stuff is theirs.

The fact that I have several gigabytes of "in progress" model saves, and Tab has the original .psd files for his skins is more than sufficient if there were any legal question.  The fact that I possess the source code and several gigabytes of "in progress" saves and archives is also more than enough to prove in court if we ever had to.

Look, the main thing is to keep things on the level.  Woodsman is demonstrating exactly the sort of abrasiveness that's not needed.  Namecalling does not resolve the problem, which in this case was a site owner not knowing he had models that someone else had filched from our project.  It only inflames tempers and breeds resentment, which is why it needs to be avoided when confronting someone who has content that is ours.  Cool heads prevail in this sort of thing.  I know, ironic coming from a fire bird, but it's the truth.

Shamb: at this time we don't have to prove anything (although if we had any need for it, Pho's right on the money), since the leader/contact fellow of the DH team has already informed us that a freelance 'modeler' used ripped artwork without informing them. His name was 'Sheppard' or something like that, so if you know someone that uses that handle and could be the perpetrator, check it out. The point is, they've acknowledged our claim and need no further evidence.

For other situations, we can for both models and skins rely on 'ruling out coincidence', by comparing things vertex-by-vertex, pixel-by-pixel, etc. if a complex (section of an) image is exactly identical to some other work, you have a convincing argument for them being the same. After that, the work-in-progress files are perfect evidence for it being yours (especially if you have the skill to prove that you can make comparative works again).

Flaming? Not guilty, yer honour. Though I have to admit I was tempted ...

me too, but i didn't

you just have to show restaint in such matters

*sigh*
I didn't see the unnessesary post about Nazis until now.
I'm german I guess that makes me A FREAKING NAZI!!! (http://forums.wireheadstudios.org/style_images/Neon_Ang-366/icon13.gif)
Give me a break flamers, acting all gung ho and calling people nazis because their german is quite stupid and offensive. We just demostrated our immaturity, and made ourselves look like fools. Freaking thanks a hunka zit hair alot. Oh and because I'm a german nazi snot head, I guess that automatically makes me an enemy of the jews.

[/edit] Excuse my outburst but that just pissed me off. [/edit]

the nazi's were only one faction of the german society  :evil:

which thankfully is no longer in power

just because some people happen to be german, does not make them nazi's  :(

in fact quite a lot of my friends are german, some are jewish and they get along fine  :)~

which goes to show racial hatred, can and should if possible be irradicated  :smirk:

as nobody wins

and as for flamming

jezz, what's the point O_o

can't we all just get along, and blow each other into gibs  :ownage:

I mean just look at all the nationalities that are here, does that alone show that the past is long forgotten  :)~

I mean we are all mates here.    :D

right ?  :huh:

Irish bloke (me) agrees