Wirehead Studios

Any new demos :huh:

Servers have been pretty light lately, so there hasn't been any demo-worthy material from the usual games.

... near 20.00 pm i spectate EURO server until ppl join, for about 15-20m. Yesterday nobody :( - finnaly am trying to meed the schedule, ppl join! :p ...

Aye, I tried to get a US game going Tuesday, but people were more interested in chatting about nonsense than playing a fun game.  Bunch of scrubs and slackers, I tell you.

Between my study taking up more and more time (and being mightily interesting), my other hobbies and some people (that means you, kruz) abusing the mod's class imbalances to prevent the game being enjoyable for now, I'm not inclined to play a whole lot, lately. Perhaps I'll play a few games this weekend.

No need to stop playing a) with the class and b) on my account, but I would appreciate it if you would just lay off the painfully easy frags every other game or so.

I respect your willingness to adjust your habits. Don't do it just for me though, do it for everyone else on the server, too! There's hardly any risk of scaring me away (permanently) from a mod I'm working on ;] - but there is the risk of demotivating less enthusiastic players.

Easy frags are those that require little or no skill to make. Among those, I count: rocket spamming (and particularly, spamming a trapped player), battering weaker players or those with nothing to defend themselves with, doing repeated quad runs, picking on (or not giving slack to) the newbies, camping the rail platform in Q3DM16, etc etc. Sure,  this is a strongly subjective list, but keep in mind that I'm not talking exceptions here, these suck donkeydong when they're used as the primary way to rack up frags.
(mind you, I'm not accusing you of doing everything in this list, just giving an indication of the way  to interpret 'easy frags')

... ahem... *looks at Tab and his railgun totting taunt* Sooooo, Mr. Tabun, are you going to play with pistols only when at the server? :p har har har .... (ok, not funny)...

Here's the types of behavior I usually see that tend to annoy players.  Not directing this at anyone specifically, this is a general list of what we pretty much find to be "below the belt", and tends to be effective in driving players away from servers:

1)  Chatkilling.  I'm amazed by how many people still use the argument "This isn't IRC" or "It's only a game".  That's fine, don't be an ass to the other players by going out of your way to frag them when they're typing.  It takes absolutely no skill to do this, annoys players, and we WILL ban people for it if it's a continual problem.  This includes chatcamping, that is, standing behind or near someone who's chatting and fragging them as soon as the chat bubble drops.  I catch someone doing that and they're kicked without warning.

2)  Spawnkilling every chance you get.  Nobody likes to be fragged the moment they pop up.  Even with spawn protection I've seen people repeatedly go for the new spawns just to get an easy point.  If they go out of their way to attack you, sure, pop them for it, but if they retreat give them a fair chance at getting a weapon.

3)  Camping during an FFA.  Please, this isn't a tactical shooter where you have to be sneaky, it's an action game!  If your only method of winning consists of pitching a tent and keeping other players from having a fair shot at items and weapons, you're just being an ass and showing a complete lack of sportsmanship.  Bear in mind CTF is another story.  Capture the Flag involves attacking and defending bases.  It's a different game and different rules apply.  You're EXPECTED to defend your flag in CTF.

4)  Trashtalking.  A little smacktalk during a game is one thing, but if you get nasty we'll take notice.  This especially applies if a server admin is talking to you.  It's pretty simple, people telling the server admin to spork off, or backtalking in a snide manner when asked to desist is asking for it.  Respect the other players, and listen when the admins talk.  We're not going out of our way to be jerks, we want everyone playing to enjoy their game.

5)  Abusing any of the above.  It's a two-way street.  If you go out of your way to force people into chatkilling you by throwing up a bubble in the middle of a fight, or wait with the chat bubble up for someone to turn their back and then shoot them, that's abuse.  If you get chatfragged from accident, well it happens.  Sometimes explosives leave their weapons before you decide to chat at an inopportune moment and place.  Lag is another factor, so before complaining about getting chatfragged, consider the circumstances it happened under.  We're talking people going OUT OF THEIR WAY to PURPOSELY kill people chatting.   If you're tucked in a corner and someone walks up, waits 2 seconds, taunts, and shoves a rocket up your nose, let us know about it so we can watch the offending player's behavior and attempt to correct it.  The /demorecord command is a great tool for solving disputes of this kind, so if someone's being a llama, snag a demo of it so there can be no question of their behavior.  This works even better if you can jump into spectator mode and follow the offending player.  Also, if you use the chat bubble to camp an item, say, the Quad or Invulnerability, by standing on or near the item spawn, don't complain when someone frags you for it, or if an admin kicks you for it if it happens too often.

6)  Stacking teams in a team game.  Come on, if you're slaughtering the other team, be a good chap and help the other side out, or ask someone to switch to balance things a bit.  This isn't a tourney ladder with organized teams, most of our team games are a collection of people with varying skill and experience who just want to get their game on.  Everyone likes to win, but nobody likes to see their team lose constantly.  The best teamplay games I've seen are the ones that last longest, have the closest scores, and the best matched teams.  They're exciting, fun, and make for great demos, too!

7)  Rubbing people's noses in it.  Nothing wrong with a little victory dance after a hard won frag, but taunting every 2 seconds (especially with Visor) can grate on people's nerves, ESPECIALLY if you've killed someone in a particularly lame manner.  YOU might get a kick out of it, but that doesn't mean everyone else on the server shares the sentiment.  This usually falls into the "going out of your way to piss people off" category.  Q3's taunts are fun, but all things in moderation.

All we're asking for is that everyone try to keep things friendly, and keep it as fun for everyone as you can.  Sometimes this means laying off the big guns a bit, sometimes it means passing up a powerup or two, or letting someone else top the scoreboard for a change.  We understand everyone wants to win, and that it's impossible for everyone to do so.  There can only be one person at the top of the scoreboard in any game.  However, it should not involve making everyone else's game utterly miserable in order to get there.  Think about it, if you're winning but annoying other players by doing so, they're going to leave, and you'll have nobody to play with.  Where's the fun in that?

In my opinion, people get pissed off when they lose. Camper problem, don't start the water works and throw a tantrum, just show them who's boss... Spammer, blow him up, it's called competition. People use those tactics because they work. Why? People spend too much time griping and stomping at them, and not enough time thinking of a counter tactic to beat them with. If the said tactics doesn't work, then people will lay off. It's the best way of getting rid of the problem in my opinion.

I fully agree with Pho's list.

I don't agree with Washu's comment.
Trust me, when someone would be abusive, I have battered them exclusively in games, until they let up. I stopped doing that, because it's ineffective bullying that isn't enjoyable for either me or the offender - at least not for long. In this sense, it is not the best way to get rid of the problem - it is the best way to incorporate the problem as being 'part of the game', and thus raising the status of the cheat.

This game is (at least for me) not about finding a myriad of ways to deal with lamers. If I wanted to learn how to win from people who are abusing the freedom of a gaming environment, I'd go play Counter-Strike. With such a small community, and with so few playing hours a week, it is not only easily possible, but also quite important to keep things focused on enjoyment and take one's place in a mature, respectful crowd.

If I would hop on the servers and dualgat, supershotgun and BFG the shit out of some people every night, they could in theory find ways to keep me from getting weapons, or they could use some nicely coordinated teamwork to control the map, or they could imitate my playing style, or try to 'go pro' (or whatever you want to call it) - or I could just choose not to act like a jerk, in which case the problem would be solved without anyone having to go out of their way to force something out that was unnescessary from the start.

Some people only get pissed when they lose, that's their problem - me, I get sick and tired of people calling some things 'tactics' and using them as some kind of code to live by. Forgive the silly analogy, but 'being rich' is not a tactic when you're buying things in a shop, nor is shooting the salesman and making a run for it.



lol - That is exactly what I do, too :]

I can understand if someone where to do it just to be a jerk, which is the case for most of the incidences. However, what if they were a noob, and that is the only way they know how to play? That is my point. I do not use the said tactics myself, because I too think they are lame. I agree there is a problem if say, an experianced player is down by 10 frags, then they whip out the dirty guns, and slaughter the competition, doing it just because they want to win every time. Thats lame.

But if someone is generally a noob, and is camping because they have like 1 frag playing for 45 minutes, I would cut them some slack, but if it starts to interfer with the gameplay, and everyones enjoyment, then I would question their "noob-ness".

Forgive me as my communicational skills are sub-par at best, but I ment that there has to be a point where you gotta say "tough luck". If someone kills 5 people in the same area because they walked up there to fight them, it does not mean that they are camping, nor does it mean that they are being a jerk. Please understand me when I say, there needs to be a balance. You cannot say, "Oh you are jerk, look at the way you railed me from 40 miles away I think thats dirty tactics." I mean in my exeriance anyway, people call dirty tactics when they are no longer winning. I experiance that a lot. I would be say 3rd place in a game, then in the next I would win, they say "Oh you are camping, you are spawn killing, you are aim-botting." And that is poor sportsmanship as well as using said tactics just to win a game. I agree with you Tabun, but there is the other side to consider. If one player is winning match after match using said tactics, then there is a problem. It's all about having fun, and throwing away "tactics" sometimes can increase the enjoyment of other players. And over time noobs develop moral skills and generally throw dirty tactics away.

If someone is new and doesn't know the more honorable side of gaming, that's precisely why I posted what I did.  I also make it a point to politely ask someone to not engage in bad behavior, especially if I've never seen them on the server before.  If someone is new and is pretty much being a target to the other players, I'll go out of my way to give them some pointers, help them get their configuration straight, and answer any questions they might have.  Now if the player is new to Gen but obviously has been playing Quake for a while, I'll make sure they know we prefer friendly games, not cutthroat.  For a while we had a LOT of cutthroat players that started playing Gen, most of them came from the SomethingAwful forums.*glares at ConfusedUs and Tekhead*  Two of them got banned for it, the rest kind of drifted back to whatever else they were doing.  I was quite happy to see them go as we had just about every regular player I know complaining about the cutthroat tactics, camping, chatkilling, etc.  I'd rather play a friendly game with 2 or 3 people than a game with 6 lamers.


That's why I included #5 in the list up there.  Lameness comes in all forms.  Hell, I've been called a bot, a wallhack, "using radar" and any number of things - when I was on a dialup connection.  This happened to me in Q2 occasionally in deathmatch games.  Here's two examples.  One time occured on the map Lava Tomb after a rocket duel in the rocket launcher area which neither one of us were hitting the other, and when I ran out of rockets I retreated to the outer courtyard.  In the process of retreating, I fired the chaingun at the door expecting my opponent to chase me.  Well the idiot ran right into the hail of bullets and died a split second before I (literally) did a backflip into the lava.  He called me a f'ing cheater and left the server.  Another time was in a game of Weapons of Destruction.  Map was Slimy Place.  Now bear in mind WOD has a built-in radar, which I never use because I find it a distraction.  The individual in question had slaughtered me on the previous map (Lava Tomb yet again).  Well, no surprise since I suck on that map.  Then when we get to Slimy, I cream the guy.  Why?  I know the map very well, I play it well, and he was running completely predictable routes.  There is also no railgun, which takes the ping advantage away.  It didn't take much for me to see him round one corner, run the other way, fire a rocket and have him turn the next corner right into it.  Still, I was "using something" according to him, so he called me a cheater and left. I have never once used a cheat in an online game, and never will, so I guess it's a bit of a compliment, especially when you're on dialup at the time.  Some people just can't stand losing, or can't understand how something as simple as a map change can make a huge difference in the game's outcome.

Sometimes a player just gets a little frustrated too.  Ever have one of those games where everything just doesn't go your way?  I've had games where I spawn, round a corner, get railed.  Respawn, round a corner, get shot in the back.  Repeat about 7 times in a row where I've died before I could even get ahold of a decent weapon.  Even I'll squawk about that, not because people are necessarily doing anything wrong, but because it gets frustrating.  If someone's just having a rough time, I'll cut them some slack, but if someone's just being a whiner because suddenly they're no longer at the top, that's just whining then.[/color]

Obviously, if some poor beginner is just trying to keep in the race, he's 'allowed' to use what would otherwise be dirty tricks. I thought that went without saying, if not; the more true skill one has, the more dirty the tricks get. ;]

that is so wrong in so many ways

its like the little doggy that at the moment your not looking is humping your leg.
it aint killing ya , but it aint right either.

Well games, the idea is to let the person know "hey, I see you chatting, but come on, let's get with the fragging already!"  I'll usually get out a melee weapon and taunt the person, or if I have a BFG I'll stand ominously in front of them for a moment and run off.  Sometimes I'll walk up and punch them once or twice (Doom fist, not the Q3 gauntlet) or even put a blaster round or two into them, but no more than that, as a reminder that we need to get the fragging on.  The idea isn't to kill or leave the person half-dead, just to get their attention a bit.

Kind of, but did you get the problem fixed?  Should have this line in your autoexec.cfg in your generations folder:

seta ui_menuFiles "ui/menus.txt"

Make sure you're running Gen from a shortcut.  Some (other) mods use a different ui_menuFiles setting, and when run from the mods menu they put that setting in baseq3/q3config.cfg.  This causes Gen to get confused if you run it from the mods menu instead of a shortcut.

Doesn't sound like hippy talk to me, it sounds like rationalization of behaviour. Allow me to give an example that should indicate what kind of distinctions can (and, imo, must) be made;
1) Mr. A predicts me coming from a certain area, fully loaded, in a 1on1, rails me four times without missing a single shot and takes control of the map.
2) Mr. B runs through the map as Doom, running into me while I have only a machinegun, and starts pounding me with a fully loaded chaingun, leaving no option for escape. Twice.

There's a distinction because in, and restricted to, situation 1), I recognize A's incredible skill in aiming, predicting and strategy - and I praise him for it. In, and restricted to, situation 2) I recognize B's incredible skill in easy fragging, mindless stomping and aggressive, unanswerable barrage.
I have no trouble admitting being subjected to the skills I've described above - the point is that I do not value them equally.

Hmm, this seems to be drifting more into a "preference" area than anything else.  I don't see the problem with "2", so long as it wasn't a blatant attempt to hunt someone down as soon as they spawn every time.  Personally I get more annoyed by someone standing there, watching me, then railing me the instant I get to the weapon spawn than someone picking a chaingun vs machinegun fight.

Kruzader:  I'm splitting your config post over to the bug reports board.

My main problem with 2 is that, when the game's balance is distorted in such a way that mindless fragging is no longer punished, there is no bonus to be had from taking the strategic approach instead of the reckless one (among other things). I guess this is indeed a preference thing - it's always hard to draw the line with this kind of thing -, although I find it hard to believe  there isn't a consensus of wanting 'brainy' to be able at least to keep up with 'brawny'.

I hope you don't mean "sneaky" vs the "brute force" approach...  I prefer my targets to attack me directly, where superior battle tactics and firepower decide the fight over people who skulk around potshotting me from behind walls and never show their faces.  I'm not against using cover in a fight, I'm talking about the ones who creep around and look for turned backs and completely avoid direct engagements.  People who do nothing but sneak around are cowards.  A cheap shot in the back is no substitute for skill.

A 1 vs 1... well that's a little different.  In a 1 vs 1 I prefer to hunt my prey down and utterly destroy them, then repeat the process.  :evil:

No, what I mean here is literally the difference between someone using their mind in whatever way possible, and someone just running around like a nut. Sneaky can be part of the former, especially if it's not the kind you describe, but the kind where you suprise people by being somewhere you 'couldn't have been'. More importantly, for me it means prediction, using handgrenades to pop people on ledges or cover your retreat, rocketjumping wisely, etc.
There's an arena to fight in, and you do just that, run around and align your crosshair on whatever's out there. You can train yourself in brute force, speed and to make 180 degree flicks that are spot on within a millisecond. Nobody escapes the pain - but I like it when one is rewarded for doing something beyond and above that, for exploring that virtual world and using it in ways that go beyond 1-2-tactics, and asking for a more cerebral kind of match.

I guess we'll never agree on what's the most enjoyable way to game, and that's fine with me. What we probably will agree on is that neither extreme should be (unevenly) rewarded.

Well put, and I agree.  :thumb:

Potshots and shooting people in the back is MY tactic. Then again, I suck anyway.. so whatever. :)

Well it's been a long time..... But I'M BACK

havent been on the servers in ages. got too addicted to FF 11

MMORGS will ruin me i swear, but when i go for a game of gen what happens :huh:

Nobody on.

what has happened, a few months back it was teaming with life and cool long hours of quality fragging

which was a shame, that there's nobody on anymore

still i'll be on saturday, ready to get a royal pasting (as usual Especially my Pho or Tab)

as for tactics, don't have any if i find a railgun i'll snipe, if i get the gats i run madley at the nearest person like a maniac and attempt (attempt being the correct word) to perforate them

and yes the whole noob's or people pretending to be noobs really p***es me off aswell,

I'm not playing currenlty, due to my 22" CRT having died on me. I have another one (for the machine I'm typing on right now), but I cannot be bothered to shift it to and fro every time I want to play, so I'll have to go cold-turkey on Gen a bit, until I have a new monitor. Too bad there aren't any good LCD 1600x1200 screens available yet :(

I was on the Euro server Saturday 8.00pm cet, I was on my own for around 15 mins then I was joined by Alucard and kingu. Even tho I sucked big time I enjoyed myself.
 So if you fire up Gen and see nobody on Join anyway, that way you might get more people to play.

wen't online at 11pm and again nobody

come on guys what's happening

Sorry, I've been busy repairing my nest this weekend.  I've had some emergency work I've had to do, otherwise I'll have water intrusion, which means more serious damage later.  Can't be helped.

well , its made out of stone so that it cant fly on fire when he is in it

It's basic structure is like any other "nest" you and I live in. ;)

It's very rude and presumptuous to not allow someone to speak for himself, especially when the question was not even addressed to you.  I will continue this in a private message so as to not derail the topic further.

Oh, okay...  :huh: