Wirehead Studios

http://www.custom-tfc.co.uk/spampit/viewth...ad.php?tid=2130 (http://www.custom-tfc.co.uk/spampit/viewthread.php?tid=2130)

^ Some of them are modified, but most of them have just been ripped straight out of Generations Arena. Thought you might want to know.

its in the admin section of that board.

Sorry, you are not permitted to view this forum... <-that error

Check the main page for files/weaps/textures.

Browse through OoPpEe's files.

http://www.custom-tfc.co.uk/index.php?sect...y=OoPpEe&page=9 (http://www.custom-tfc.co.uk/index.php?section=browse&submitted_by=OoPpEe&page=9)

Check Page 1, 5, 9, 10....

Wow, man... everything from Generations to Q3F to Vanilla Q3 in general is on there.

they also ripped things from ut2003:chaos (the golden skull ,not very old )
and things from halflife .

I think we should have to stop them .

oh i think they want to be foxed...
o_O

This is a typical case of a huge community of newbies (in EVERY aspect) that have no clue about .. well.. about basically anything. One dork posts something he's ripped, and the rest ooh's-and-aah's about how wonderful said dork is.
I never like it when stuff is ripped, but what REALLY smarts, is when someone rips one of your models and proceeds to make it look horrendously ugly! blegh.

Oh well, at least he'll never get a job in the industry ;]

I'd have to agree with tab, I had some old doom textures that someone "created" in q3 (increased resolution and added an effect layer). Now, ripping is one thing, out and out theft is another, but taking it one step further and making it look like prefabricated ASS gets on my nerves.

But yes, I'd have to say that he'll never get a real job in the industry.

Ripping only works for audio kids, remember that.

Yeah, and tons of stuff from other games and various authors. Funny how Games Keeper and Tabun commented on some of the Wirehead models on that page, because really, I wouldn't know where to start. It's an endless list of ripped models. Somebody should point Id Software to that site, so it can be removed all at once.

Apparantly, they just ripped stuff shortly after i got done with the doom stuff, and several strogg weaps. The Capt. had some of the slipgate stuff too it seems, since those and said doom/strogg stuff is the only stuff that was ripped. Let's hope they won't find the items ;]

Hmm... well, I suppose it's nice to be noticed, but not very nice to have stuff used without permission.  At least we can rest assured they have no real talent.  I'm just wondering if I should flame their board or leave that pleasure to LeeMon. :evil:

lets do them both.  :evil:

Removed all from me (double check, if there is any missed tell me the link and it will be removed).

Also about the first link, the mod moved it to the admin forum. I just deleted that also.

GOOD , now learn to make models of your own , start texturing , ask tabun for help when you have questions AND YOU MIGHT JUST MAKE IT AS A MODELER  ;)

now now GK.... dont go flying off the handle. No flaming is needed

He removed them when asked, no hassle involved :)

Nice of you to respond so quickly and thoroughly. I noticed this modelpack (http://www.custom-tfc.co.uk/index.php?section=comments&type=item&parent_id=2836) still contains Wirehead material. Among other models from Q3A and RTCW, which you can't really use either. Consider yourself lucky that Id Software never found your site.

good work removing those, and fast. But taking media from one engine and moving it to another is a very big nono. You might want to remove that torch before Fox Interactive finds it as well. They're VERY protective of the Aliens and Predator franchise.

The stupidity and lack of common knowledge on this thread and forum is comedy gold. You people here have obviously not gone though any other part of the site, other than OoPpE's page. If you do so, by chance, you'll notice that our models, sprites, textures, etc., are legit and take a deal of talent to create. Now if you folk take the time to look up the definition of customize (I only ask you to do this because it is apparent here that you guys do not understand). Well, for the slow, it means to to make or to alter a specific thing. Hence the name Custom-TFC. We have various customized things, which vary from completely new objects, to altered TFC objects, to altered HL object, and in some cases altered model from other games. When objects are submitted to Custom-TFC that come from different games, we do not verify whether that user has obtained permission from its authors to do so. We assume the user has taken their responsibility and obtained the required permission.

And, as always, proper credit is given.

well i can pretty much ASSURE you, that at least 90% of the 'modified' stuff original owners would NOT give permission to do such a thing, because of legal reasons that basically come down to, If they did it once, they open themselves up for many future rippings...

I/We Can assure you, from FIRSTHAND KNOWLEDGE, that id, Fox, and Sierra do NOT take kindly to their models being used AT ALL, because they DO NOT give permission for such use... EVER......

Add-on:

You do not think that we would go about making OUR mod without knowing/following the copyright laws to the letter? Please. We have been in contact with the original content creators, the publishers, etc etc etc, as well as many legal experts... Trust me.. if theres ANY TEAM out there that knows about copyright laws... it's us.

That id? Fox? Sierra?

You're fooling yourself.

Mr. UbEr, sir, I'd suggest you take a few laws courses on copyrights and intellectual property.

This site is little more than a demonstration of gross negligence towards the intellectual property of others.  The majority of "content" available at this site was not originally created by the website staff or the person who uploaded it.  It is overwhelmingly converted, hacked, and modified from other games, and other people's intellectual property.

Speak what  you will of talent, the skills required to edit someone else's work are miniscule to what it takes to create it in the first place.  And as a personal rule of etiquette, the greater percentage of the original work that remains at the end (and for these files, that is the overwhelming majority), the more credit should be given to the ORIGINAL author(s) and NOT the editor.

I do model and skin edits too.  Have for years.  But I carefully document where my source files come from, give full credit to those who created them (far more than I trumpet my own work), and most of all, NEVER DISTRIBUTE what I have created without EXPLICIT permission from the original author.

Now, you can attempt to take a moral high ground by claiming you don't check with the authors, that you assume they have permission.  I suggest you read up on the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, as your rights and responsibilities are slightly different than you percieve.  (I handle user-uploaded content similar to this on a daily basis as part of my job.)

With copyrighted material and intellectual property, if you intend to run your site the way you are (i.e. largely populated with copyright infringements) you MUST have a disclaimer to the following:  That you do not pre-screen files uploaded to the site, that you fully comply with the DMCA, and that you have a clearly-stated process to respond to copyright violations like this one.

It also helps to not tell a copyright holder that they're "stupid."

I won't even get into trademark infringement, as the differences in laws would most likely be confusing at this point.  Suffice it to say that you do NOT have any form of "I didn't know" protection for trademarks, and you must actively remove other people's tradmarks from your site, not passively wait for others to request them.

I don't take kindly to being insulted over a legitimate complaint.  We have had honest requests from teams wishing to use our content for authorized purposes, and since our project is not yet completed, we simply cannot allow this at this time.  We want people to look at these models and think, "Cool, WireHead made some nice Generations weapons," not, "Cool, WireHead borrowed those kickass weapons from Custom-TFC."

If you insist on deriding this for our complaints, I'll be more than happy to forward the link for your site to other copyright holders (id Software, Fox Interactive, etc.) who historically have not responded as politely as we have.

Let's try to keep this thread from degenerating into a flame war. I've sent messages to anyone who is being overly dis-respectful, and copied those messages to the other moderators on the board.

But onto the real subject.

Uber, we have nothing against modding an existing game. We're a mod team ourselves, after all. However, there's a few things you need to know about modding.

a) Read your EULA (End Use Liscense Agreement) that you must click AGREE on when you install your games. They pretty much state what is and what isn't free use, and what you can and can not modify.

The legalese can be a bit hard to decipher, but what the EULAs say is this: You may modify any media (textures/maps/models) in our game, but you may NOT export said media into another game. What is made for q3 stays in q3.

b) I'd suggest you read up on what's called "Fox-ing". Several years ago a team of people, much like yourselves, decided to make an Aliens vs. Predator mod. Fox Interactive came down on them HARD. Fox requested everything from the mod's source code to the hardware used by the team to create what they had made so far to the real names and addresses of each team member. Fox threatened lawsuits and other such legal retaliation if its requests were not honored. This kind of heavy-handedness is what coined the term 'Fox-ing' or 'Foxxing'.

Id software and valve have not been nearly has hard on teams, but very well could be in the future.

c) We worked hard on our models and skins and textures. If you want to use our stuff, please ask first...it's all we ask.

d) Read lee's post again. That's the one above mine.

And I HIGHLY suggest you read this article--particularly the top of Page 2--before you even think of approaching us about what you think you know about copyright laws.

http://www.3dactionplanet.com/features/q3d...ellchick/iplaw/ (http://www.3dactionplanet.com/features/q3dmhellchick/iplaw/)

Of particular note:

Unfortunately, copyright law requires that game companies take action against anyone who uses their content inappropriately or they risk losing the right to take action in future cases, cases that could have a more serious effect on their intellectual property than a kid having some fun. The situation is known as "waiver"--by not taking action, the game company is in effect saying that they don't care what happens to their content and that anyone can do what they want with it.

I've been studying and working with copyright law as part of my studies and eventually job for the past four years.  Where is your experience coming from again?

To be honest, "Custom-TFC" 's 'mods' look like nothing more than ripped models with skins that were ran through a Photoshop filter. It looks like a desperation for attention really... I could also swear that they've also ripped things from Jedi Knight II. It's a collection of other peoples' work.... how tragic that it gets praise of any kind.

Noone here ever said the entirety of the skins and models on that page were ripped. And OoPpE is NOT the only individual who's done this. I can list off other offenders if you would like.

A recreation of a model or skin on another medium is valid IF credit is given to the original author. Ripping models and skins, then converting is NOT. That simple fact is what is causing the problem.

I didnt flame him ??? if you saw my flame him , he would ly there in ashes behind his computer .


I just was faire with him . he could be a good skinner/modeller if he just practise and starts to mae his own works

I invite everyone to discuss this on  

irc.wireheadstudios.net

#tfc-whs

Sigh, this seems to be rapidly devolving into a flamewar indeed.

GK, I'm sorry to say it, but you're behaving rather obnoxious when it comes to this topic- if you plan to go on that way, at least leave me out of your posts..   I don't need anyone making me look more like an Ass ? than I already am- thanks.
I have no intention of suggesting that I'm a good artist, nor do I judge the qualitites of others, unwanted - (well, not anymore, since old foots went buckwild :] )

Uber, you're missing my point (and perhaps some others too, can't be the judge of that) - I've posted the last bit about the 'model rip' matter on the Custom-TFC forum, and yes, that's really what I feel and all I wish(ed) to say about it at that time.


I just keep hoping that some people will realize that they made a slight booboo, correct it without going nuts (much like oop did) and learn from it. If anyone thinks WH's reaction is weird, I'm sorry, but you're in for a shock, most sensible mod teams would be like this. Plus I'm not even talking about all the GamesKeeper-like-mod-fans out there now ;]

i with warden i think we should discuss this further in the wirehead channel . if you believe custom TFC is worth defending you should have the nads to  defend it live.
 well lads men or mice?

After browsing through the site its pretty evident, though you may not realize, that this is a just hobby site, not a commercial enterprise like you seem to treat it.  Players like to use "themes"...in the same sense that there are themes for desktops etc  to alter the game experience. as well as making their own crosshairs etc and just customizing the game to suit their tastes.  While I agree that if credit was not given they should be taken off(this may have been in a few cases), I find it a tad ridiculous to pursue anything else...  and completely ridiculous about some of the attitudes i've seen in here.

Exactly what PHISH said. You guys treat this FAR more seriously than anyone in TFC ever would.  C-TFC is a collection of quite a few modelers and skinners. Don't assume because you see work that you don't consider to be any good that there aren't good modelers out there, several of which could easily pick up Q3 and produce models, skins, sprites, etc just as good as any of you. Many times it is never even the modelers fault. They sometimes do requests and someone could easily DCC them the model they wanted altered without ever saying where it came from or anything of the sort. Also, Ooppee never did anything he thought was wrong and he certainly never made anything without proper credit. It's always in the "README" that comes in the zip with the model, sprite, etc. Wanna know why Q3 and Q3F models and skins are used or wanted? Want to guess what engine TFC runs on? Want to guess where a large majority of TFC players came from? Want to guess where TFC came from?

Don't take this the wrong way, but it's very laughable to see how serious you think we take it. I don't think anyone except MAYBE 1-2 people might be doing this modeling to help them improve a portfolio or anything of the sort. 99.9% of the people do it for fun and taught themselves.

Again, I agree that without proper credit, that your course of action is fine, but if the parties are unknowing about the situation concerning intellectual property and copyright material, there's no need to go nuts over it. It's very easy to tell the mature from the immature here as to who's let it drop since he so quickly dropped everything and those who threaten to send the site to companies for legal action(which sounds completely pathetic).

I still dont know how this got out of hand.

We asked that our models be removed, the admins of the site complied. All is done.

Uhm, how about a big bullshit?
I dled several files from the site, and not one of the files included a readme with it.  So whos lying to who?


Cmon, its plain stupid to ignore whats in your face, what happened to site moderation? Someone checking the files? Unless you live under a rock, there is no reason you could not know about copywrite issues.

Most of the reactions from either side were rather over the top imho too, phish&forever.
Speaking for myself, proper handling of my work does concern me quite a bit, and I'm not ashamed to say that. Like I said before, no matter what the other party wants to use stuff for, asking is the primary factor in this, proper crediting is next on the rather short list of things I request and expect.

Aside from that, any messages about details concerning legal rights, the law etc, any posts containing phrases such as 'whining', 'crying', 'jackass', 'loser' and a shiteload of such tactless and whitless repartees are totally unnecessary.

It seems a lot of people are looking forward to a good flamewar (and who am I to try and talk them out of it), however, so have fun with that folks! Too many has been said about this matter altogether, so I'll just keep out of it, and really consider this to be my last post about it all (this seems to be the third 'last' post I've typed up on the various boards :)).

something against living under a rock ?  :blink:

Forever, Phish, Uber...  anyone else who thinks there's "no harm done" in all of this, I have something for you to think on.  I worked very hard on many of those models that were used without permission.  All of the Doom models are my personal creation, and a few of the Strogg models too, along with the Slipgate shaft model that was so hideously merged with the Strogg super shotgun.  Hedhunta and Renalicious worked hard on the others, and Tabun and Captain Howdy worked very hard to skin them and make them look as good as they are.  Some of the Slipgate models were provided by the Classic Quake Arena team, graciously and with THEIR PERMISSION are they used.  We did have their permission.  Ooppie did not have ours.  That's what this boils down to - theft.  I take my work very seriously.  So does everyone on this team.  You can't just up and run with something that isn't yours and think no harm is done.  Just because something is digital and not a tangible object does NOT make it any different from stealing a real object.  How would you feel if you worked hard building a new computer, taken months to lay out a good case mod, installed, set up, and perfected it, only to have someone come along and take it, then say it's their own?  What if you worked hard writing a video game, and someone else stole your code, and released it, claiming it was theirs?  You wouldn't think it funny if someone took your work without permission, without asking, or even seeming to care whether or not you gave a hoot about it.  It's NOT a joke to us.

While we're flattered that people think our models are good enough for others to want to use them, the point is that they DO belongs to US.  WIREHEAD.  It's OUR stuff, and we did NOT say anyone could use it in this manner.  I don't think we need to lighten up on this issue one bit.  We have a right - and a responsibility - to protect what is ours.  We didn't create it to hoard it to ourselves, indeed, we created it so people could use these models, weapons, and gameplay within the framework that WE intended to see it released.  Sure, we want people to download our models - but from our mod, and within the game we intended them to be used.  We want people to see them and use them within Generations Arena first and foremost.  Does that mean we won't ever let anyone else use them for a project?  Not necessarily, but we're not exactly done with them, and until that time we don't see any reason why we should let unfinished works be used, especially without our permission.  It's that simple.  WE reserve all rights in regards to our intellectual property, and we will defend that right.  Like it or not, that's how it is.  Other companies would sue first and ask questions later.  Notice that we did do everything possible to work this out peacefully?  We're not trying to be bastards, we're just being fair.  We're not out to "get" anyone.  We just want to make sure nobody tramples on our rights, steals our stuff, and defrauds us of our hard work.

Now, as Ooppie has said he'd remove the models, and Warden has said everyone discussed this, and that he has done so, I don't see why any further discussion is warranted on this.  Our position is clear, and we're not backtracking on it, Ooppie has complied, so bitching and moaning and flaming the boards will not change anything.  Let's just drop it where it is and move on.

Yeah, Wirehead has no reason to complain any further, but I understand why some of the users from custom-TFC are upset. They had no idea that what they're doing was illegal and then suddenly a large portion of the site is gone. I remember very well that Q2 Generations didn't go down without a lot of heated discussions. It takes time before people understand and accept the legal reality.

What I'm trying to say is that Wirehead has every right to take what's theirs. I would do exactly the same if I was in a situation like this. It's just that I also understand the angry response from the custom-TFC people, since I was just as upset when Q2 Generations got shutdown. It's a learning experience.

Hey sorry for reviving an old thread but there is something I think the generations team needs to know... The laughing stock of the TFC customization community OoPpEe was the one who stole your models and agreed to remove them. However he only partially removed them,  some of the stolen material (2 bfg's and a doom plasma rifle) can be found

here (http://www.angelfire.com/rant/dataprocessing/models.html)

 and in this model pack done by him (littered with stolen things)

here (http://www.custom-tfc.co.uk/index.php?section=comments&type=item&parent_id=2836).

 If this was already known then sorry, but I hate ooppee and the fact that he doesnt have the balls to make his own models.  His email is ooppee@hotmail.com and if he doesnt cooperate then you can ask any of the admins (except uber hes an idiot) at www.custom-tfc.co.uk. Again sorry for the thread revival and I hope ooppee dies a painful death  :thumb:

No problem, we'll take care of this, thanks.

Thanks for the info, ty!

Blood makes the grass grow. KILL KILL KILL!

o.o ok ... DW ! =P

Seriously, I'd like to hurt somebody. Lemme at 'im ! It'd do us all some good.

Why don't you just forward the link on and be done with it?  Lawyers will hurt them far more than any one of you folks could.  They were warned, they disregarded.   :thumb:

in the first link you can see he thefted the nailgun from TA , I think we know really have something against him  :evil:

Seriously, it's like they're asking to be ripped to shreds by corporate dogs. If this isn't a defiant taunt, what is it? Let them be dog food, I say.

What really pains me is that people such as Ooppee receive undeserved credit from people who are under the impression that he actually created all that material.  I think it's wonderful that he has technical knowledge about modeling and can also skin somewhat.  I can't understand why he passes off others work as his own however.  I mean... how will that help him in the long run?  Not only can that get him into legal trouble, but what will companies think when they see that as part of his portfolio?

I'm speachless, really. The guy went through this once already...

I also agree with the fact that it's disgusting that he passes it off as his own with no credit given at all. And I'd assume it would hurt him more than anything if they see that in his portfolio.

Everything from Gen to Q3 to Q3F to AvP2 can be seen at those links... it's sad really.

Think that's all I'll say on the issue.. arguing isn't me.

EDIT: Sorry.. just noticed the credits area on the second link that was posted. It really does go unnoticed though. I looked through that page about 4 times before noticing it. So.. credit was given there, at least....... somewhat.

Credit was giving, but doesnt usage have to be asked for?

Thats exactly what I told him, and everytime I confront him about any of this all of his lackies stand up for him. Credit is only good if permission was given in the first place, and lets face it ooppee is a dishonest thief. I mean he doesnt even have the balls to talk it out strait with me and I doubt he'll comply with wirehead due to the fact that hes no longer admin of C-TFC and they were the original ones who made him remove your models... So legal action, if possible may need to be taken against him. I wouldnt post anything on c-tfc boards because I dont think they're bound to be helpful either....

:P  I'm amazed that someone managed to take a load of well-done, original work and make it look so utterly pants!!

Must have put some effort in :)

Got to bear in mind that this was probably not meant maliciously in any way, and the author(s) of this work were prolly about 13 yr old. (you are, aren't you?!)

 :thumb:  peace  :thumb:

Credit don't matter for jack (in a case like this) - just because you say where you stole it from doesn't make it unstealing ( unstealing - i like that :D ) ESP if the authors had asked you to remove it.

Rofl, I know this already dna, you didnt answer my question, I know some authors only ask their names to be put into the credits, but usage on some items has to be asked.  It was a question of stolen goods.

Yes, I answered your question exactly.
If a general permission is not given, then permission must be asked.

I'm forwarding this info to Id Software. This is disgraceful. :angry:

Did I miss the board invasion? :evil:

Lil... its like the time you stole the car from Jay Leno, and went pimping with it downtown.  Sure, you told people Jay gave it to you... (after all, it did say JayLeno on the plate) but I don't think he really cares what you tell people.

Now if he -did- give you the car, he may or may not have asked you to tell people he gave it to you.

If I may...

My legal knowledge is quite limited and my coding and modelling knowledge dwindles on nothing. But I have something to releate here.

I am a musician. I am in about.....5 bands as of now. Harry Palm Pilots, Pinko Jihad,  Edolth Neort, and two others that go unnamed. I have played many live shows in the past and played with many other bands. I will say this, other bands do not like to hear other's do covers of their songs right after they just played them minutes before. It pisses them off badly, believe me. The cover usually doesn't do the band justice at all and that is the first time I got my ass kicked.

MORAL: ASK PERMISSION FIRST OR YOU WILL GET YOUR ASS KICKED.

Wow... I thought the moral was to learn how to fight so you wouldn't get beat up so stupid mistakes like that... Or carry a gun  :P

if you can't fight back, and carry a gun to make up for it, I'll just kick your ass all the harder..

:offtopic

Basically if in doubt, ask.  It is better to get permission first than to try to apoligize later.  It's not just copyright, it's intellectual property rights as well.  We're legal because we DID ask first, and Id gave us the nod.  Remember the Reborn mod?  They forgot the asking part, and got shut down.  Our whole project is a tribute to Id Software and the games they've made.  That puts us on a fine balancing act, and we've done our best to make sure we err on the side of caution.  Even so, the content we've created belongs to us - Wirehead.  It's our models, it's our work that's being taken here.  Anyone up and using it without permission is engaging in theft, plain and simple.  We've granted no broad license for people to just base whatever they want off of what we do, so all rights are reserved to Wirehead Studios regarding content useage.

I hate to bring this back up to the top...this is almost a month old topic.  But I'm curious if this got taken care of an settled out? :)

All you have to do is click on the links... to see that no models have been taken down.

I just scanned through all the pages of stuff Ooppie had submitted.  All the Wirehead and nearly all of the Id Software material has been taken down.  The only thing left that falls in our domain is the nailgun model, but CQA actually did that model, not Wirehead.  We used it with their permission and reskinned it.  That Ooppie person still has a lot of illegal crap up there but he removed what we asked him to.

Really?  It looked to me like some of these were Wireheads'.   (http://www.angelfire.com/rant/dataprocessing/models.html)  But I didn't d/l them, so who knows?

That's our BFG9000 alright.  This is from a different site than the one I looked at.  My model program won't read the format in these files, but I'll look into it. Thanks dna!

The offending site has been removed by Angelfire.

Thank you for pointing that out, did not see it when this issue came up earlier. Currently right now a new version of the pack is being added without that nailgun model.

As for the Angelfire site, the admin gave me their user/pass. I removed the section. I completly forgot about that site, it was there I had my first files/customizations. When I found Custom-TFC I ditched that site.

I have only submitted files to 3 sites, Custom-TFC, that Angelfire site, and my own site.
Currently Custom-TFC is the only site which hosts files I have submitted. If they are found elsewhere, they were "leeched" from Custom-TFC, not submitted by me.

We had been under the impression the angelfire site was new and had been put up after the TFC material was removed.  Thank you for coming forward on this and clearing that up.

And if you were to check the main page of that site you would notice that the last update of that site was back in April 2002. In which was before I became a user let alone an admin of that site (I removed my admin status there earlier this year).

You have never emailed me, contacted me on MSN, Irc or ICQ. You know if you post on the C-TFC boards it will only turn into a flamefest. If you truely wanted to deal things with me, do it in private. LeeMon sent me an email, I would of never of known about the angelfire site unless he emailed me.
I don't have the balls? Ok there... we never talk so what is there to straighten out?
As for doubt with me compling with WireHead, wrong again there, day I got the email, exact same day I removed the files. Today I even removed more content from Custom-TFC and edited that model pack so no WireHead content is in there. So quit assuming.
As for the other admins on the site making me remove the content, was only Teq. He also never forced it upon us, him and I were equal powered admins during the time this came up. He runs the server, that is all. I ran every other aspect of the site. Was I forced to remove the files? No, the admins below me didn't want me to remove the files either. I did regardless. So again, quit assuming.

reason for me making this public and not an email is because you did it yourself. That angelfire site you never approached me about.

Understandable because only the direct link to the files was given, not the index files which shows the last update was back in April '02.
No problem. If you do find any more WireHead content on Custom-TFC tell me and I will remove it (I am no longer an admin there, but ]LoRE[ has given me permission to use his account in emergency cases).