Wirehead Studios

Ahhhhhh, must feel great to finally be done constructing the new codebase that every future version of gen will use. I mean, not only that but you basically only have the armors, a few skins, and new sounds to make. Thatll basically make 1.0. Resurgence will follow, and it'll require a lot of new code and projectile models, but thats post 1.0; the biggest milestone. I'm so addicted to this mod it's scary. Never since Smash Brothers Melee have I been as addicted to a game as this. So good freakin job everyone because I am amazed at the integrity of this project.

But I was thinking after a few games that maybe a few veterens out there could enlighten me: Is Strogg simply an inferior Arena Gladiator? He does have better armor that wont rot over 100, but he is slower and has inferior rockets, railgun, grenade launcher, energy spammer, and the chaingun has to spin up whereas the l-gun doesn't. Since the devs know the actual damage and velocity values of the weaponry they could better tell me whether or not I'm right. The community vets could tell me by experience whether this holds true or not. I am hoping that I'm wrong of course, so please do so  :lol:

There's a few reasons why the Strogg Trooper rocks:

1. His rail is not inferior, but superior: it does a whopping 125 damage.

2. His arsenal is more varied and balanced then the Gladiator's. Plus the chaingun is one scary weapon :]

3. Stroggos class does not feature Orbb.

4. The BFG10k vs. the Arena BFG = no match.

5. Well, most of the Gladiator's weapons deal more damage than their Strogg equivalents, but let's face it... the Arena class is just.. lame :]


P.S. glad to hear you like the mod man - the world needs more of your kind!

thanks for the reply, I'm glad the strogg railgun does more damage since its slightly slower. Yeah, I was messin with the chaingun and I can rack up more kills with it than the arena l-gun. Well, since you are a dev and know all the values, how much do the other strogg weapons compare to the arena weapons damage wise? And how much slower is strogg than arena; probably not much since its not too noticeable..maybe 15%?

I must say; I still dont hate on the arena class even though its the one we are most used to in q3. I find it interesting to have new opposition; sort of brings new life to the old class. In your experience in multiplayer against humans; (never played it online); do stroggers tend to get just as many kills as arenas?

Strogg also has much better powerups than Arena. Instead of a battle suit, he gets invulnerability. His quad damage does 4x damage, unlike Arena's 3x. He can also move very fast via strafe-jumping, if you remember (olr relearn)how to do it Quake2-style. I haven't used his double-jump much, as capping my FPS at 125 works wonders with trick jumping (thank you Q3 engine!).

When Phoenix puts in the grenade ticking for his hand grenades (along with a few tweaks), then they'll be as devastating as they were back in Quake2.

With a more-balanced arsenal, he does have some not-so-great multiplayer weapons, like the blaster, sg, ssg and mg. Those were usually used for single-player, desperation or humiliation in Quake2 anyway. Personally, I'd like to see his chaingun get a tighter spread. It doesn't feel as effective as it was in Q2 IMO.

It depends on the map really. For example, in Eternal Arenas, Doom, followed by Earth own that map. The level's structure suits them better. However, if you play on a map with open area, such as q3dm17, Strogg really shines with his amped railgun. Strogg also holds his own on szq2dm1ish.

Well, we implemented invulnerability and a 4x Quad Damage across the board for all classes to be fair.

Where Strogg Troopers really shine is in their versatility.  Arena does have some pretty damaging weapons overall, but most Arena weapons are not nearly as strong as those of the other classes.  Strogg's chaingun might spin up and spin down, but it dishes out a LOT more damage than the Arena lightning gun.  Strogg's chaingun does 14,400 hits/minute at full speed.  Arena's lg only does 9600 hits/minute, and the range is a lot shorter.  Strogg's rockets do anywhere from 100 to 120 for a direct hit, and do much more splash damage than Arena rockets.  You can use it VERY well at close range without getting a lot of splash yourself.  His grenades don't bounce nearly as much as Q3 grenades, and also do loads more damage.  Add in the second most powerful doubly shotty in the game, and he's got a good load of all around weapons.

Playing a Strogg Trooper against someone who's been playing Quake 3 for a long time will present quite a bit of a challenge since the Arena Gladiator has the home court advantage.  Sure, he's got his weaknesses, but skilled veteran Quake 2 players will recognize the strengths of the Strogg Troopers class and know exactly how to adapt against their Q3 rivals.  He may not be as fast as Doom, he may not have as fast a rocket launcher as Slipgate, or as strong an energy gun as Arena Gladiators, but he's got everything else, plus tougher armor and wicked movement physics.  Two shots from that railgun will kill just about anything except a player with 200 health and 200 armor, and if the rail doesn't do the job, just pick any other weapon and it will do the trick.  One of the worst things you'll ever meet is a fully armored Strogg Trooper with 300 bullets in that chaingun, or 300 cells in his BFG10K.  Very little lives through that kind of onslaught.

Thanks Pho, u and the others are the sh*t! that is truly reassuring to me that strogg is as good as everyone else and that you guys are this supportive about such a question. Good luck on locking down those animations! I think I'll get back to myyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy Gencrack  :thumb:

now now guys. thats all theoretical .

I think we have to proof it to him in a practicum.
jerrebaldo1  join us in the saturdaynight games and we WILL proof it to ya .
(unless we have a bfg10k game :) )

After all the time I spent on the beta server getting blasted by those guns to make sure everything was balanced, I'd HOPE you'd keep with it :P
We've spent plenty of time making sure each weapon is somehow equivalent or made up for in terms of playability. One of the reasons slippy and doom both got gimped. Doom's ssg was too badass, and slippy's rockets were almost as effective as a railgun, sometimes more. Anyhoo, back to fragging..

Well, it's true Doom's SSG was cut back a bit on damage, but Skippy's rockets are NOT gimped in 99c.  His armor is cut back a bit, but that's been in place since 99b.  Skippy is still badass.

Oh, and anyone wanting to see how tough Strogg Troopers can be can always challenge me to a 1 vs 1 match.  I'll be more than happy to oblige. :evil:

oh pho about tht doom ssg . can we get the 99.a version of that gun back. I just loved the supershotgun back then .  :evil:

Ah yes pho, get back and code it back the way it was in 99a will you? I know you did all that hard work to unbalance the game, but now the joke is over. Just code everything back the way it was, when it was perfectly balanced and flawless for all intents and purposes. :]

o_O /me shoots games keeper...
No thanks the DooM SSG is prefect as it is ;)

Isnt that the whole point of generations arena , making it back the way it was
 :blink:

well pho, I'm not saying it's weak, I'm saying it's gimped in comparison to the .99a/b Slipgate Explosive Railgun™

As close as possible. But we do have to consider balance.

We've been lucky so far. We've only had to change a few things from the original. Slippy's armor and Doom's SSG are the only real examples I can think of. They were both too powerful, and had to be balanced a bit.