Wirehead Studios

http://quake.wikia.com/wiki/Quake_5#Game_Engine
I've added my part, anyone else want to join in?
The wiki isn't very popular,only deathstalker(admin)posts alot. ;) :slippy_thumb: 8) :doom_thumb:

Purist that I am, there are some things I disagree with on that list.. mostly weapons, but also some other small bits. The pistol, chainsaw, machinegun, rifle, assault rifle, railgun, and BFG aren't very 'Quake' to me.

The chainsaw and BFG should stay with Doom.. as they are staples there. Likewise, the railgun should stay Q2. If such a weapon has to be included, perhaps it should be a prototype.. massive kickback, long reload, etc. Bullet-based weapons didn't exist in Quake either, instead favoring the metal flechette flinging nailguns. I guess, in theory, they could exist.. but, eh.

Bitterman should not appear in a game dealing with anything remotely Q1. The nameless 'Ranger' is a far superior character. If Bitterman does appear, he should get slugged by Ranger.. just to appease my own bias tastes. :)
(yes, that entire paragraph was based entirely on my own bias feelings)

At least one level should be almost completely made of textures that are different shades of brown, either in parody or as a homage.. or maybe even a secret area referencing the first Quake.

I do agree with the comments about modern gameplay and regeneration though. Bring back health packs!


EDIT: Oh right.. I think I said this in a different thread talking about a Quake remake or some such. But.. I seriously hope they go with a name that isn't 'Quake 5'. The entire Quake "series" is chronologically confused enough without adding another to it.

 Mink,you are a true Quake 1 purist. If you've read the B.F.T. part, it was my idea. I think quake 2 is a little better than quake 1,but eh...... i dont know.*cocks railgun* :ninja:


(p.s why are you seen as hidden mink?It's obviously you.)

The BFT2k wasn't bad. It's more raw than something technological like the BFG, so it could fit if it was implemented and designed properly.

As for Q2.. it had things I liked. Loved the chaingun and hyperblaster.. the railgun was an interesting twist at the time.. and Makron out of his suit reminded me of Shockwave from Transformers. Other than that, it was ok. Just preferred Q1. I'm not as hostile towards the game as my bits of sarcasm might imply. ;)

I appear as hidden because I set myself up to appear as being hidden. I think I am the only one on the board who does so, so yes.. it is obviously me. I wish it didn't list me as anything other than being just another guest on the list.. but.. oh well. :)

 Hmm.. I personally prefer a dim dark technological future as a setting,quake is alot like this,it just done medevalish...... every time i play quake 2 i think this could be our future :ninja: :doom_thumb:
*puts railgun away*hehe....... :smirk:////////1 :ninja:

I definitely liked Q2's multiplayer better. As for singleplayer, I'll take Q1's Lovecraftian themes over Q2's Borg-rejects any day! The mood, the architecture, the monsters... Q1 oozed personality. Maybe it's just a coincidence, but it seems like iD began stagnate a bit once John Romero left.

That said, I want Quake One. It should be a retelling of the original Quake. Same basic premise, but fleshed out so much more. Each episode and dimension should have completely unique textures and themes, with an appropriately huge boss that can only be brought down via a puzzle (like Cthon). There's plenty of inspiration to draw from if they want to keep cherry-picking stuff from the Cthulhu Mythos. :)

Well I need to play quake 1 again. :) 8)

Probably just me, but I never got to experience Q2's multiplayer outside of a couple coop games. I played TF through most of Q2's lifespan and into part of Q3's. Guess that's not really Q1's true multiplayer though, as it's a mod.. *shrug*

I added the following entries:

Characters:  The unknown Slipgate Ranger.

Story:  Revamp all the original monsters from the original Quake and some of the better ones from the Quake expansion packs and modernize them graphically, while staying true to the original theme. Don't do what Raven did with the Strogg from Q2 when they made Q4. As for the story, a retelling of the original Quake in the same way Doom 3 was a retelling of the original Doom. Begin the game with our hero on his way home to the barracks on a secret military installation where slipgate experiments are being performed, when all hell breaks loose. He fights his way to the slipgate, and when attempting to shut it down he gets pulled through and is swept to another dimension. He then must progress through one alien world after another, learning bits and pieces along the way in dream sequences about who is behind the invasion and why. Each dimension will be controlled by an Elder God through the use of a rune. By defeating the Elder God and claiming the rune, special powers will be unlocked, and a slipgate to the next dimension will open. Once all four runes are united the Rune Key will allow the hero to enter the final dimension where Quake itself lies. This dimension will be a nightmare world where reality itself is bent, and the line between dream and concrete existence is blurred. The hero will finally face Quake (not Shub this time around) and after defeating Quake, a twisted nightmare ending will be revealed as the hero is consumed and possessed by the black magic of the runes and becomes an Elder God himself, returning to and ruling over a conquered nightmare Earth, his journey having been orchestrated by an even greater power than Quake that planned all this from the very beginning.

Weapons and powerups:  Magical powerups based on the Q1 world, similar to the Ring of Shadows and Pentagram of Protection.
Alien/demonic weaponry that can be found at some point that has unusual effects.
Not really a weapon, but bring back monster in-fighting.
Morning star grappling hook for CTF play, along with runes.
Runes in single player unlock special abilities for the player, such as dark sight, weapon penetration, damage reduction, and ability to summon friendly monsters. Rune power would be time based and either regenerate, require kills to power, or some kind of item pickup like mana or special energy sources. If this sounds a bit like Wolfenstein's Thule medalion I was thinking along those lines.

Music:  Use a mix of classic Q1 ambience and event queued music.

Level Design:  Multiple paths. Let the players find their own way to the goals.
Very few, if any, scripted encounters.
Classic use of fluids - lava, slime, water, etc.
Secret areas with hidden goodies.

Game Engine:  Use of light and shadow to do what should have been done with Doom 3.
Soft shadows.
No 60FPS limit for single player on PC version.

Aesthetics:  Make the visuals span several worlds, from Egyptian to Gothic to high-tech, etc. The Slipgates will connect these worlds and some kind of very strange exotic world that Quake hails from.

In the spirit of conversation and wishful thinking, I present...

(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/morari/QuakeOne.jpg)

The pentagram here represents Shub-Niggurath, the "Black Goat of the Woods" and "She with a Thousand Young". She's being bound by the five runes surrounding her. The imagery works well with my plot ideas, I think.


PLOT
You are part of the newly reformed United States Army Rangers. Your squad is assigned to protect a highly classified military facility. Rumors have it that the installation is home to some of Uncle Sam's less humanitarian efforts. The truth of the matter however is that the entire facility is almost exclusively dedicated to the research and development of so-called fast travel.  Having seen promise in the private sector's progress regarding fast travel, the government contracted the UAC to perfect their wormhole based Slipgate technology. This budding technology is seen by some as a way to boost the world's slumping development after the disastrous Mars Incident and ensuing Earth Wars, which were themselves the result of untested fast travel.

While your squad's assignment is technically only to guard the facility, several Rangers volunteer to also be test subjects. While the Slipgates initially appear to work as planned--allowing instantaneous travel from one room to another--the side effects can't be ignored. Each and every Ranger that goes through the Slipgate comes back as a bloodthirsty lunatic. The team is forced to delay any further testing as they determine the exact effects prolonged exposure to the Slipgates will have.

All is quiet for a while. The Slipgates are hesitantly ignored. Instead the UAC scientists focus on the unfortunate Rangers that had been sent through. They're now kept in small cells on a lower level of the complex (Let me out! Make it stop! Kill me now!). One brutal riot has already broken out due to a guard's negligence. These men are no longer your comrades. Something in their brain has been rewired. They're near catatonic except for during combat. Then they're almost... happy.

Without forewarning, your are thrown from bed by the sounds of an alarm. You assume that another riot has erupted down in the brig. You quickly grab your gear and exit the barracks. What you find is horrifying. The corrupted Rangers have taken up arms against your squad, pushing them back and forcing small retreats. As the frenzied attack escalates, something changes. The lights dim and flicker. Suddenly a heavy thud is heard from behind, followed by a steady pounding at the end of the hallway. The door to one of the Slipgate chambers begins to bow and buckle outward. Your squad is caught up between the frenzied Rangers and whatever is forcing its way through that door. You stand your ground as the door falls. Behind it is a towering beast, covered in white fur.

Before hardly a single shot can be fired, the beast charges. You roll out of the way, taking cover in a side room as the beast decimates your squadron. You're quickly attacked by an axe-wielding creature. After dispatching of the creature, you try to return to help your squad but are blocked by the rubble that had fallen from the walls and ceilings as the beast charged through. It seems that your only option is to find a way to reactivate and  use the Slipgate at the end of the hallway...

The protagonist must now fight through a plethora of varied dimensions. He comes to learn that the Slipgate complex was invaded by an entity referenced only as QUAKE. To gain access to Quake's domain and put an end to the invasion, the Ranger must find the corresponding rune for each dimension. Once all of the runes are brought together, Quake will present himself.

Prologue: The Doomed Dimension
This should quickly set the story up. The player could walk around the Slipgate complex, speaking with other Rangers. Rumors and gossip could be spread about the corrupted Rangers. Before long however, the alarms sound and the player is required to respond on a lower level of the complex. When he arrives he finds that the corrupted Rangers have broken free and are overrunning the guards. This will allow the player to fight alongside some of his fellow Rangers.

The player and his remaining comrades are pushed back by the aggressive Rangers. Soon they find themselves fighting down the last corridor of retreat, leading right up to one of the Slipgate chambers. As the player shoots it out with his teammates, the door to the Slipgate chamber falls, revealing a monster! The creature charges down the hallway, making quick work of all those in the way. The player managers to dodge the charging creature, rolling into a side room.

The player is quickly attacked by a lone Ranger wielding an axe. The player easily dispatches him, grabbing the axe for himself and returning to the hallway. Unfortunately for the rest of the team, the hallway collapsed in the wake of the Shambler. It would seem that the player's only option now is to utilize the Slipgate at the opposing end of the hallway.

Is the Slipgate powered on? Does the player need to use the ventilation system to access the controls elsewhere in the complex? Maybe the Slipgate is still calibrated for the UAC testing and only transports the player to the opposing Slipgate chamber, where it awaits new coordinates?

And what came through earlier?  Maybe it was actually Nyogtha? As the lowest ranked of Quake's generals, he was sent for initial reconnaissance, but instead decided to prove his skill and might by initiating the invasion. He has seemingly succeeded, as the Slipgate complex quickly fell to his squad. He can be found in the lower chambers, trying desperately to wrap his feeble mind around the Slipgate positioning data so that the full ranks of Quake's army might follow.

Boss: Nyogtha
The player makes his way through the Slipgate complex and faces off against Nyogtha. Ranger is no match for the brute's strength and magical abilities. Unfortunately for the satyr, Ranger has a much better grasp of Earth's technology and uses this against him. Nyogtha needs to be lured into the gravity field (or the gravity fields needs to be activated). This will suspends him long enough to nullify his teleportation ability, allowing the player to get a few hits in. Nyogtha drops a mysterious rune upon death.

After defeating Nyogtha, Ranger sets the coordinates on the Slipgate and passes through, intent to stop the invasion... even if that means killing all of Quake's generals, one by one.

Beyond Space, Beyond Time
The player finds himself in limbo. Here all roads merge, beyond the veil of time and space. The Hell Mother, Shub-Niggurath, resides here. The surreal atmosphere is accompanied by an ancient temple, vaguely Egyptian in theme. The player descends into Shub-Nigguraths lair, where the confusingly organic mass waits, imprisoned within her own domain. The cavern is tangled with tentacles and ever-spawning creatures. The player approaches, unsure of what to make of the collection of eyes, teeth, and orifices.

All eyes are on the player as a sole tentacle is raised, a partially decayed cultist attached to the end. Shub-Niggurath speaks, using the corpse as a vessel. Shub-Niggurath tells the player of her imprisonment within her own domain. "Release me." "Die." Quake has bound her to anchoring stones throughout various dimensions and enslaved her, using her as little more than a birth machine to fill the ranks of his demonic army. The player must go forth and destroy the anchoring stones so that the magickal chains that run through into Shub-Niggurath's domain may be broken.

Each dimension houses its own anchoring stone. Furthermore, the General of each dimension has possession of a Rune. With the chains broken and her powers returned, Shub-Niggurath could use these Runes to open a portal to Quake's domain for you. She's also willing to provide information about each upcoming dimension and their respective General. Is the enemy of your enemy really your ally?

Episode I: The Netherworld
This hellish world rejects you with lava pits and atmospheric hazards, as legions of foes surround you , testing the gut reaction that brought you here in the first place. Now you will bare witness to the true form of Quake's army as you make your way through the castle and to the House of Cthon.

Boss: Cthon
One of Quake's generals, this instantly recognizable boss is seemingly indestructible. He resides in a pool of lava at the center of the House of Cthon. His massive size allows him to hurl rocks made from cooled lava at the player. This attack does massive damage.

The only way to destroy Cthon and claim his rune is to lower the electrodes above and shock him several times.


Beyond Space, Beyond Time
Return to the Hell Mother's domain. The first chain is now broken and you are one Rune closer to Quake himself.

Episode II: The Realm of Black Magick
The rancid stench of open graves fill your nostrils. Though you've just fought through what any sane human would consider Hell, the occult acolytes of this realm are still eager to best you. Destroy them all and navigate your way through the crypts and desecrated churches in search of Ithaqua's frozen throne.

Boss: Ithaqua
This horrifying giant possesses a roughly human shape, with corpse-like features. It seems to be covered in a layer of frost, with its claws perhaps even being made of ice. Monsters and textures occupying levels leading up to Ithaqua should be reskinned to appropriately reflect the harsh cold.

Perhaps one would need to use the Nailgun's heated ammo to truly injure Ithaqua? Break icicles off above, letting them fall and impale him?


Beyond Space, Beyond Time
Return to the Hell Mother's domain. The second chain is now broken and you are one Rune closer to Quake himself.

Episode III: The Dreamlands
You enter a strange landscape of toppled coliseums and ruined aqueducts. The soft rainfall never seems to stop and you have a hard time telling the thunder from the rumbling beneath your feet. It seems as though you're to be harassed throughout the entirety of the Dreamlands. There's a very large, very territorial Dhole that's been tasked with guarding the anchoring stone. He plans to pop up during your journey in an attempt to fend you off... maybe the final confrontation won't go as planned?

Boss: Kuranès
This gigantic Dhole resides in the Dreamlands. While not a General per say, he is used as a guard for one of the anchoring stones, and does posses a Rune. He'll actually pop up throughout the episode to harass the player. You won't get to kill him until the end of the episode however.


Beyond Space, Beyond Time
Return to the Hell Mother's domain. The third chain is now broken and you are one Rune close to Quake himself.

Episode IV: The Doomed Dimension Redux
You find yourself back in familiar territory, and yet something is different. Your dimension has already begun to be assimilated, accumulating into a bizarre mesh of earthen technology and the otherworldly mysticism. No matter though, you're here for the final rune. Armagon, Quake's highest ranked general, has it. He's taken up residence here in the Slipgate complex and outfitted himself with a ton of Earth gear to ensure victory over the dimension.

Boss: Armagon
Perhaps the most violent of Quake's generals, Armagon forces the player to confront him in open combat. Armagon appears akin to the smaller Fiends, and is perhaps even of the same species. Since the invasion of Earth however, Armagon has taken to modifying himself with human technology. His legs are now bio-mechanical and his arms are equipped with Hyper Blasters and Rocket Launchers. Armagon actually looks quite a bit like the Makron (or more specifically, the Jorg). Armagon's fellow Generals believe his modification and use of lesser-technology to be disgraceful.

Armagon must be tricked into charged the player. His bio-mechanical legs give him incredible speed. He must be tricked to charge into specific objects, injuring him or perhaps even caving in the level on him? Maybe he could charge into an open Slipgate, which would in turn dump him out somewhere else in the universe... only to establish and utilize the Strogg later on in history!


Beyond Space, Beyond Time
Return to the Hell Mother's domain. The fourth chain is now broken and you are one Rune away from Quake himself.

Episode V: The Elder City
Spiraling cyclopean architecture looms high overhead. Your mind fails to fathom the grandeur of the non-Euclidean geometry. What once must have been a magnificent civilization is now little more than eerie ruins. Still, something resides here. Something ancient... something evil. And it's very well protected. Do you have what it takes to clip Vorvadoss' byakhee wings?

Boss: Vorvadoss
This should be the Dragon/Byakhee. He'll need to guard a Rune/Anchoring Stone at the end of an Episode. Damage him enough to temporarily ground him, giving you the opportunity to attack his weak spot up close. Beware of all that fire and brimstone he's spewing though!


Beyond Space, Beyond Time
The final chain has been broken. You quickly return to Shub-Niggurath, now in possession of all five Runes. You can only hope that she will keep her end of the bargain. As you descend into the Hell Mother's domain however, something is amiss. The birthing activity of before has ceased and all is quiet. Without warning, the once decorative statues break loose from their bases and attack you. After a mighty battle, you approach Shub-Niggurath. As promised, she uses the magick of the combined Runes to create a hellish portal to Quake's personal domain. She too thirsts for vengeance, and directs her loyal offspring to the forefront of the battle. They'll keep Quake's minions largely distracted as you make your approach. After all, the demon is unlikely to suspect a single human amongst the war that now rages between these factions.

Epilogue: Purgatorium
You've entered the metaphysical realm of Quake. Floating high in the void, you hop from platform to platform as dirt and rock crumbles off into the abyss. Gravity seems to have no place in the floating ruins and desecrated shrines. You come across few monsters. Most seem to be fighting amongst themselves however, as Shub-Niggurath seeks vengeance for her imprisonment.

Finally you come to Quake's chamber. Your journey is at an end and only one of you may leave alive. Will your collected arsenal be enough to stand toe-to-toe against Quake himself? Countless worlds have been conquered... will yours be next?

Boss: Quake
Battle the hulking creature on a floating chunk of land. Said chunk has destroyed shrines and fallen pillars built on top of it. Perhaps the player will (in FMV) make a charge at Quake, tackling him over the edge and down into the swirling void of space. Time will stop and both parties will be teleported out of the situation. The player will find himself in an oddly decorative tech-complex.

"Welcome to the Arena Eternal! Jump here to reach the armor."

Fade to credits.

But wait, J3E125... there's more! You asked for it! I'm home from work, sick and bored for the day. Mwuhahahaha! :wall:

Weapons:


Flashlight: While this may not be a weapon per say, it is always equipped and can be turned on or off at will. It has infinite ammo, though it does occasionally flicker.

Axe: This simple, one-handed weapon may just be the most reliable armament you have. Taken from a fallen creature, this medieval axe glows subtly with unknown glyphs along the blade. Perhaps the axe could simply work as a secondary  melee attack, regardless of what weapon is out?

I also like the idea of the Mjolnir. War hammer with a bladed backside, from Norse mythology and the Mission Pack. The electricity would consume the same energy as the Thunderbolt (and Hyper Blaster?) however, which might not be for the best. You can strike singular opponents as normal, or you can strike the ground to send out an array of lightning for multiple enemies.

Combat Shotgun:  This basic gun is standard issue for all Rangers at the Slipgate complex. It's pump action mechanism allows for little downtime between shots. It does take some time to reload however, as each shells needs to be inserted individually.

Boomstick: This double barrel shotgun may be slower to reload between shots, but the damage dealt just might be worth it. Both barrels fire simultaneously, requiring a quick breakdown and reload between every shot.

Nailgun: This odd weapon fires large, red-hot nails wherever its pointed, alternating between two barrels. The nails cause a few brief seconds of lasting damage due to extreme heat, caused by firing them with such force. The nails will visually stick into enemies, as well as walls, where they will cool in temperature and color. Certain enemies only take a fraction of the damage due to their tolerance to fire.

Crucifier: Four triangular barrels of fun. The Crucifier is, in some ways, an upgrade to the Nailgun. Whereas one quickly fires super-heated nails, the other meticulously launches large stakes before rolling over to the next loaded barrel. These large stakes don't fly very far and are adversely effected by gravity due to their weight. When hit, the stake will visibly impale and protrude from an enemy. In the case of a small or weaker enemy, the Crucifier can easy send them flying back, literally pinning them to walls. Certain enemies cannot be outright impaled due to their thicker skin or armor.

Rocket Launcher: For when a grenade positively, absolutely has to be there on time. The rocket launcher is one of the best devastating weapons in Quake. It moves quickly, deals an insane amount or direct damage, and comes packed with a bit of splash damage and knockback. Just make sure you're not standing too close when you fire. If given enough time to anticipate the incoming rocket, some enemies may try to dodge it. Shamblers take dramatically less damage from explosives, such as the Rocket Launcher.

Grenades: There will no longer be a dedicated Grenade Launcher. Grenades will instead be a passive weapon, thrown with the press of a hotkey, regardless of what weapon is equipped. The sound effect should be pretty similar to the original bounce sfx. Will it still use the same ammo as the Rocket Launcher?

Hyper Blaster: This weapon is very similar to those used by Enforcers. The laser canon will shoot a fast, brightly lit bolt of energy. A resulting hit can be quite damaging, while a miss may be even worse. The laser beams have a tendency to ricochet, and may do more harm than good if you're not careful. This weapon does require a few seconds to wind down after firing.

Thunderbolt: This mysterious, Yithian developed weapon is capable of firing a continuous stream of pure electricity. It can do incredible damage if kept on target. If the Thunderbolt is fired into the water it will instantly discharge, expending all of its ammo and killing anything in the water... including the player.

Vore Pod: This hovering, spiked ball floats above the palm of your hand. When thrown, it'll quickly go to wherever the player is aiming, even if the reticle is moved. In this way, the pod can be maneuvered and steered to a target where it explodes violently. Shamblers take dramatically less damage from explosives, such as the Vore Pod.

MONSTERS
The player will come across a variety of different monsters in their journey. Some will be specific to certain locations. Others may be more prevalent throughout. Each enemy unit has specific attacks and behaviors. Some may even have special weaknesses or strengths.


Grunt: Once your proud comrades, these grunts have been driven insane by the esoteric sights beyond the Slipgate. They now lash out against everything they once defended. Though they are seemingly weak and uncoordinated, grunts typically travel in groups or are accompanied by guard dogs. Grunts can be seen carrying a variety of weapons, including the standard Shotgun, more powerful Boomstick, Nailgun, and even sometimes Rocket Launchers.

Dog: These guard dogs are always accompanied by at least one Grunt. They have no ranged attack, but are very fast, quite agile, and do a good deal of damage up close. Take them out quickly before they become a nuisance.

Dope Fish: This relatively weak enemy's only real attack is to take small bites out of swimming players. The fish appear zombie-like with blood flowing from their gills.

Enforcer: These are little more than Grunts that now willing serve the Vadrigar. They've been outfitted with upgraded armor and Hyper Blasters. They can generally be found leading small groups of Grunts and Dogs. They make dangerous opponents even when engaged one-to-one.

Pyro: Essentially a beefed up Enforcer. These guys wear more brightly decorated outfits, completely covering their body. The gastank strapped to their back provides an explosive weak point if shot... otherwise it merely feeds the flamethrower in their hands. Pyros generally travel alone, as their weapon can easily cause friendly fire.

Eliminator: Essentially a beefed up Enforcer. These guys appear to be somewhat mechanical... either cyborgs or outright Terminators. They carry around Plasmaguns, like Flynn Taggart!

Centroid: This scorpion-like robot attacks with two Nailguns, each taking the place of a claw. Centroids are often seen patrolling alone, though can on occasion be accompanied by Grunts.

Flyer: These small, flying machines can prove quite dangerous. They will generally ambush the player in small squadrons. They shoot lasers very similar to that of the Enforcers.

Scrag: This snake-like creature posses what appears to be a human torso. The Scrag will fly typically float around, spitting acid.

Ogre: this chainsaw wielding cannibal is fond of using grenades as a ranged attack. Perhaps we could upgrade these fellers to cluster grenades? I also want to see them with burlap sacks over their heads, serial killer style!

Knight: Little more than an armored zombie with a sword.  It is quick and can easily catch you off guard. Knights are loyal to the point that they will not attack each other or Death Knights.

Archer: Like the typical Knights, but with crossbows instead of swords.

Death Knight: This larger, more powerful version of the Knight has the added ability to shoot fireballs from its magical sword. Death Knights are loyal to the point that they will not attack each other or Knights.

Gug: The Gugs are a terrible race of giants. They have no language and only communicate through facial expressions. Gugs have no head, per say. Instead their face and sideways mouth reside in their chest. Gugs also possess two pairs of forearms and hand, splitting out at the elbow of each upper arm.

Zombie: These creatures are typically found in sewers, crypts, and dungeons. They have little in the way of attacks, save for tearing off and throwing pieces of themselves. Zombies will eventually fall to the ground if shot enough, though they will rise again unless gibbed. Typically it is best to use an explosive device to make sure that they don't come back.

Nightgaunt: These creature posses vaguely humanoid shape, but are thin, black, and faceless. Their skin is slick and rubbery. They sport a pair of inward-facing horns on their heads, and have clawed hands and a long barbed tail which is used to "tickle" their victims into submission. They can fly using a set of membranous wings. They'll often times swoop down and steal the player's currently equipped weapon.

Fiend: This monkey-like beast tends to use its front claws to attack. It is extremely fast and can jump great distance. Perhaps it would be interesting to give the Fiends a cloaking ability, like a Predator or Pinky Demon? Such an ability might suit the Nightgaunt better.

Overlord: These wraiths levitate about, looking to resurrect the corpses of fallen monsters. They are also capable of sending a line of fire along the ground to damage players.

Vore: The Vore appears as an anthropomorphic spider-like creature. It generates exploding, spiked pods that home in on the player.

Shambler: Even other monsters fear him, so expect a clobbering. He shrugs off explosions and has a tendency to teleport into locations. Good luck.

Temple Guard: Like any other typical monster, but made of stone. These creatures will likely appear as Knights, Death Knights, and Shamblers. They appear as statues until the player passes, them they come to life and attack as normal.  The usual monster meshes could be used, but new skins would need to be devised.


...and done! :P

I concur.

One of the best giant walls of text I ever read, haha. And the ending was the icing on the cake. Catching a glimpse of Q3 at the end would be brilliant!

fuhhhhhhhhhhh......................h.... wait this isn't bad,in fact it AWESOME! :wtf:
story creator,anyone?

                                                            Prolouge:
                                                                  Forsaken Earth

Gunfire and screams of death filled the streets, the metropolis known as City 721 had become rubble in a blink of an eye. Soldiers tried fighting but their automag pistols didn't affect the beasts that have ravaged the city. These "beasts" were rangers a part of the slipgate project,they appeared out of nowhere,they turned infected, instantly rabid, they no longer felt much pain, & they suffered from eye proptosis.

A grunt ran across the road chasing a soldier, the grunt blasted at the soldier with his boom stick, knocking him down, the soldier fired 3 rounds to the head,only to be hit in his helmet. The grunt roared & cocked his shotgun,ready to kill. About to aim, an axe swung behind, and penetrated his shoulder he roared,about to turn,but the axe struck,penetrating his face.The grunt went down in a pool of blood, another ranger emerged. The ranger's hand grabbed the axe and slowly and shoved it off, dried off the blood,and returned it to his trusty back.

"Target down,it appears to be another ranger; area isss clear," advised the ranger.

  Soon a squad of more rangers entered into view, the terrified soldier tool a run for it.
 "to be continued.......................thoughts?" Looked up the half dead grunt,                                                 

Wow, indeed a good wall of text.  Lots of good stuff there ~Va^^pyrA~.  I'd play that game.  :slippy_thumb:

Hey, thanks. I'm glad everyone got a kick outta reading it. ;)

I really wanted to push the Lovecraftian themes that Sandy Peterson introduced to the Quake series. Even still, I don't want the game itself to beLovecraftian. To me, Quake always felt like more of a Gothic horror game with subtle allusions to Lovecraft and the Cthulhu Mythos. That's the way it should be, and interestingly enough, mixing future-tech into the whole thing kind of helps.

Once again, awesome. Now to get back to my list..... :P

K now to continue.*cough* :ninja: *cough*

 The squad kept moving across the ravaged streets,trying to find answers about the loose rangers; then suddenly, "I got movement, 8 targets possible infected" advised the specialist. "You know drill move in" commanded sergeant." One,"they cocked their shotgun popped in fresh shells,"two",they pressurised their nailgun,"THREE!" Like madmen they shot anything that moved, grunts didn't stand a chance they were nailed to the wall. Something moved fast, they aimed but no luck spotting them.RUFF!!!!!! A dog came behind the sergeant.

"Soldiers spotted, set target for termination" Said a heavily armored soldier, with a dark, grim filtered voice and his eyes illuminated blood red, his comrades looked the same. He aimed his hyperblaster, a diamond prism energy rifle.
Peuffff!!!
Peuffff!!!
Peuffff!!!
They caught them off guard, the rangers were finishing off the mutts with the butt of their boomsticks. They all went down at once, all dead or unconscious.

Guhhhh!!, gasped the ranger.
He stood up, dazed and confused, woke up in rubble, his team, nowhere to be found, M.I.A..  The sky was dark, thundering could be heard, then, the sound marching could be heard. The ranger snook through the streets, closer to the sound. Finally, he ran to the top of a rubble pile.

There was monsters. The rabid rangers. The armored soldiers, he had no idea what were the rest. They came through a massive portal, an ark, the ranger became curious, they had to come through their land, he was tempted.......

Ideas anyone?

Boy I gotta think of material......
My list should be expanded tomorrow, because I'm using an android right now.
Keep it clean... -_-

Meh I'm Bored....
------------------------------------------------------------

Episode 1: The DOOMed Realm
   This episode should be made up of mostly base levels and it should have Q1's brown,brown,& more brown textures, they could be like this (1.will add video later.)
 *Boss Level: Enforcer Lieutenant; Level Structure- A mix of the q.a.a. maps cliffside (2.Will add video later) and citadel(3.Will add video later)After you kill the boss,  you will be granted a portal into the next episode.

Episode 2: Castles For The Insane Or Grim
In the previous episode, monsters like the knight and ogre were rare, this episode has a big medieval and lovecraftian looks and feeling, expect incinerated blades being lanced at you. This is the kinda levels you'll find after base levels, but with 25% more grim stone & lava, ogres and yep, shamblers.
*Boss Level: Prototype "JORG"; these aliens first prototype monster using our slippage tech. You will be teleported thrown into an arena, this thing is very huge will throw energy cells and rockets at you've been warned soldier "jorg" will s**t you out with zero warning. After destroying thIs abomination a slipgate will appear,  a new creation by unknown terrestrials.

Episode 3- Pharaoh's Dusk
Base Level- You teleported into the outskirts of your destination and its getting dark-quick you must fight through the infected black ops squads of enforcers you must get out of the villa. If you were playing my version, you'd be sick of the dull colors/textures by now prepare to relax. The walls and floor are made of limestone sand, the walls have images of pharaohs, the floors are sometimes repeated patterns, the roof- none, instead you will look out into the beautiful night sky(especially in deserts) seeing and stars and visible systems and nebulas; for the doors they will see-through light purple glass with pictures. The areas will become more open areas, like mini-arenas; and will have new tougher enemy variants like a sub shambler with Peforator chainnail thrower.
*Boss Level- Shambler Alpha Male; what's scarier- a shambler on 'roids, his daddy. He will occasionally spawn his children the Sub-shamblers.

Episode 4: The Abandoned Realm, "City of Souls"
Green green green. You will see. It is made of stone and jade, after eternities the city illuminates neon green, you will see souls and zombies in grim cemeteries, lots of zombies.
*Boss- Crypt of souls. It is not known what lurks within the crypts, it contains one weakness- a heart.

Final Episode-Realm of "Quake"
Fire flings across the land, unknown architecture like an arena. Inside the temple of quake lies statues of what appear to be gladiators and he stands on a shield they call him "Vadrigar" threre is no known way to kill him; those who have been defeated by his blade have no evidence of death and traces of an advanced slipgate......

Phewwwf I'm done opinions anyone?

Alpha Shamblers would be scary. I still contend that the Shambler is one of the most awesome video game monsters ever.

Agreed.

Ok here are the vids(you should hopefully know which is which.)
1.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TQsyxKa-u64, with more brown of course ;)
2.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sx-FgsTGN6U&feature=related,nice sky
3.: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=taH0KbPy5Pc&feature=related,noice :slippy_thumb:
............anddd done! :)

Agreed.  God, those things scared the hell out of me back then.  I still remember casually hopping down through some post and beam style architecture (I think there's an invulnerability rune there) and then having one or more of those things appear.  If I remember right, much of that bottom level is not lighted, so you have them running around in the dark.  No problem these days, but back then they terrified me ;)

I'm playing doom3 (finally; I decided to just play it in linux since it never worked in windows for me -- completely different system now though), and I realised I really have become desensitised.  Back then, my heart rate would have shot up, now it's interesting to observe how calm I remain.  I'm sure the game would have scared me dozens of times by now if it was one of the first "scary" FPS games.  Still, it's fun.

Hmm, well I guess it was released 7 years ago, so it was pretty early.  Also, I do remember the first couple levels I was able to play through (before the video crashes became too much of a problem), and I do remember my heart rate going up and being startled.

As a tangent, there is a division of opinion on what the shambler's "coat" is.  Do you think it's skin or fur?  I always saw it as fur.  There was still a decent amount of imagination needed then :)

Boy, I've been playing quake recently(sadly i don't have a copy,so i have to use a n64 emulator :P). I got into the fourth episode and there's a crapload of fiends and shamblers im too much of a softy to blow them away with a teeny tiny shotgun and a healing pool,that messed up soundtrack will be drilled in my head for time to come O_o

Oh i think it's a fur, an adorable monster to stare at while your being torn apart :surprise:

Hmm is it me or is the fiend a midget shambler :shifty:

I saw the Arch-Vile last night while playing through (I've seen of a bunch of them now), and thought he has some shambler qualities... like shambler on a diet.  He looked pretty cool standing up on that platform just watching.  I caught a glimpse of him while moving back and forth to get the creatures to come through the door so I could kill them one by one, wasn't sure he was real (i.e. something I could kill) or just something they put in there to be unsettling.

Lots of writing going on here... must get some free time to read it.  :surprise:

Boy phoenix, do you ever get days off ? :doomed:
Who knew being a bird of terror & a programmer/coder was so time consuming. :D

Fur.

I've seen a lot of really awesome looking HD updates that paint the Shambler naked. They look mighty interesting, but they don't compare to a well done coat of fur.

This is decent:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=giL1oWmLWHk

WOAH AWESOME!!!!! :wtf:

Nobody said being Phoenix was easy!

Ok, got to read stuff finally.  Neat ideas there.  Do like the Alpha shambler concept.  The idea of shamblers toting weaponry...  I can see a kind of shambler variant that has a perforator cybernetically grafted onto its arm.  Smaller, faster, not as tough and no lightning attack but getting chaingunned with super nails would be just ouch.  Oh yeah, up close you get clawed or smacked with the gun.  Shades of Q2, I know. ;)

fourier:  Doom 3 I didn't find scary in the way some people did.  Blood just does not bother me since I'm used to seeing it, and darkness and shadows isn't too scary.  I suppose being predatory in nature some things don't bother me that would just creep the average human out.  The Hell portion of Doom 3 I actually loved because the level design was flat out superb.  I could see how much effort was put into that.  As for the Archviles, they can definitely be killed, and you want to kill them quickly since they summon other monsters, then when you're distracted they launch one vicious fire attack.  I recommend a fully-charged BFG shot or several rockets.  If you can catch one spawning in you can actually chainsaw them in the face and kill them rather quickly.  If you screw up they'll bitch slap you though so be careful.

I'd say the scariest moment I had playing a game was the original Doom.  I had just reached E2M8, Tower of Babel.  I went through the door, shot a Lost Soul with a rocket, heard this ungodly loud roar, then this mechanical stomping.  I did not want to leave the room.  Original DOS Doom had the sound mechanical stomping at full volume regardless of the source's position.  All I knew was it was loud and I could not tell where it was or what it was from the audio.  I had turned away from the door and was picking up some rocket boxes preparing to deal with whatever the noise was and the next thing I know BOOM! BOOM! Red screen and I'm !@#!%@# DEAD.  Dead from 200/200.  I never saw what hit me, which startled and confused me.  I don't scare much from the usual things that scare humans, but I do startle from loud and sudden sounds.  The "look at what killed you" camera rotation didn't help because all I could see after my view rotated was the nearest rocket box that I had not picked up.  So after reloading the level I make it outside and find out this monster (the Cyberdemon) has a freaking rocket launcher.  Not so scary after that, but I'd have to say this was the most memorable scare I've ever had in a game.

Not a hairy one but this is nice thing, a real Shambler (http://cow.mooh.org.nyud.net:8080/paper/).   ^_^

I think that the Shambler should return its basic silhouette, but be larger. I want every random encounter with a Shambler to feel almost like a boss fight in and of itself. Here are a few fan drawings I've come across over the years that illustrate the point well.

(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/morari/1222918116758.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/morari/the_poor_shambler_is_killed_by_yonaz.jpg)
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/morari/Dimensional_Shambler_by_Jaekyu.jpg)

And for comparison, here's one with no fur... and eyes. Still pretty beastly looking, but not the same in my opinion.
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/morari/shambler.jpg)

Oh... and the scariest rendition of 'em all... :D
(http://i1179.photobucket.com/albums/x392/morari/249635-QuakeRule_63Shambler.jpg)

Phoenix: Yeah, I know I was just describing my initial reaction.  After that, I've taken to the jump in the face, goad a claw attack, dodge, nail them with shotgun, repeat.  I used this technique through most of the game for most situations, including the hell knights.  Ducking the commando's tentacle arm works as well. 

I think the commando's are my most hated enemy in the game.  All the other monsters can be dealt with without taking any damage (unless you're surrounded and swarmed), but I always take damage against them (armed and unarmed... err tentacled).  Maybe it's because I really never used the rocket launcher.

~Va^^pyrA~: Yes!  It should feel stressful and like a major battle.  I love the pictures; even the last one.  That must be Mrs. Shambler, and now we know why he's so pissed off.

Woah! Those shamblers are AWESOME. I think they look too tough but that's just me, the third one looks the most accurate. *Stares at "Mrs. Shambler"* Ehhh. :shifty:

fourier:  I've found the best way to deal with the tentacled commandos is to rush them to point blank, duck and stay down when they throw the tentacle, and immediately chainsaw them in the crotch.  They always seem to throw the tentacle first so I've never had problems with this technique.

I use the rocket launcher on the commandos carrying chainguns.  They're too dangerous to go toe-to-toe in a slugging match so I just pop out, rocket, pop back behind cover, and repeat.  Two direct rocket hits does the job.

Those are some messed up Shambler pics.  I'm not certain that I want to know what was going through the artist's mind on that last one...  :wtf:

I don't think I'll be very busy tomorrow, so I'll put some goodies in the wishlist tomorrow.... And we tokin 'bout weapons, lol.  :slippy_thumb:
*Dips nails in lava* :ninja:

WEAPONS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :evil: :wtf:
____________________________________________________________________________________________

Axe- The last resort. Face it -- going toe-to-toe with the uglies in Quake demonstrates all the good sense of a man parachuting into an alligator farm

Shotgun- The basic gun, to which all other guns compare favorably.

Double Barreled- A worthy weapon with three minor drawbacks: first, it uses up 2 shells per blast; second, it's slow; third, its shot pattern is very loose at long range. But in general, once you find this puppy, the other shotgun starts rusting from disuse.

Nailgun- A two-barrel dingus that prickles bad guys with armor-piercing darts, technically termed "nails"

Super Nailgun/Perforator -The great equalizer. Four cyclic barrels that hose out spikes like crazy. Pro: foes drop like flies. Con: eats ammo like popcorn.

Grenade Launcher- Thumps neat exploding bombs into the air. You can even bounce a grenade off the wall or floor. When a grenade hits someone, it explodes. If it misses, the bomb sits on the floor for a moment, then explodes. Even though I sometimes bounce grenades into myself, this gun's still my favorite.

Rocket Launcher- For when a grenade positively, absolutely, has to be there on time.

Thunderbolt- Try it. You'll like it. Use the same technique as watering your rosebush.

New Weapons :evil:
Shiskabob-An inferno packed in a sword; now you'll be the one laughing at the deathknight.
Use- Picked up later in the game, the shishkabob is a powerful melee weapons, the downside- swinging it constantly will put the fire out, leaving you with a plain blade.

Spitfire-When you want "spazzaz" entering a baddies torso; just be sure not to impale your self.....
Use-When picked up, it will become your trustiest weapon- basically a energized nailgun

Sharpshooter-A pressurized fletchet with one goal- FRAG FAST.
Use-Encountered rarely in the game, the sharpshooter works well for a sniper

B.F.T. 2k- For when everyone in the kitty pool has to POSITIVELY ABSOLUTELY die; be sure you've hired a janitor.
Use- The bfg of this game, it will disinigrate everyone within range, if it hits the pool-get ready for a blood bath.

This thread makes me happy  :slippy_thumb:

All of that would be awesome! Great ideas guys.


Oh my... Death is still lurking lol. I know that is coming lol.  :doom_love: Still need to reinstall so i can play again. heh

Hey no problem, these people know what there doing  :slippy_thumb:
 :ninja:

Just wanted to mention about the Railgun hate going on the first page: yes, the Railgun is conducive to "cowardly" sniping behavior, but from a skill perspective, the Shaft deals much more damage per second via the very same hitscan properties, combined with a much less-skilled, spray-and-pray function. If the Railgun is to be favored by n00bs who like the camp and snipe, then the Shaft is favored by n00bs who would rather no even aim at all.

I can understand including the shaft in future Quake games for pure nostalgia and aesthetic purposes, but gameplay-wise it's really a much worse hitscan weapon in every way than the Rail. I wouldn't want it any stronger than the Q3 LG, if that (100 damage per second would be fine with me).

In any case, I'd be in favor of a Slipgate-themed Quake 5, as the Strogg universe has been a bit played out, and the "Lovecraftian" gothic/steampunk look of Q1 has always been pretty unique and underrated.

It bears mentioning that I nice alternative to the Railgun would be a single-shot high-speed projectile weapon, similar to the CPMA BFG (which was totally different from the vQ3 BFG, with 1250ms reload and no splash). The main problem with the CPMA BFG was that the fire rate was too slow for a projectile that only travels 2000ups; 800ms would have been much more reasonable and balanced; given that it's essentialy a double-speed rocket with no splash.

This weapon could take the form of a spear/harpoon/stake gun, and the use of a high speed projectile over a hitscan one would be more unique and consistent with Quake's low emphasis of hitscan weapons. Leading FTW.

Another alternative to the Railgun would be to make the Shaft into a gothic Lightning Gun (re: UT2004); with 70-80 damage except during headshots that would still provide a nice nerf to what would otherwise be a Railgun reskin.

Lastly I gotta mention that one of the most important elements in a future Quake game would be to reach out to mainstream gamers in a major way, without actually compromising any of Quake's core gameplay.

One of the most fundamental ways to do this is to introduce visual elements to explain the gameplay conceptually, and cut down in seemingly-pointless idiosyncrasies.

Quake's movement has never made ANY sense to outsiders. A simple way to address this would be to outfit slipgate soldiers with some sort of steam/rocket/hydraulic-powered footgear to explain their jumping behavior. If aircontrol is featured, then each boot could fire individually during airtime to show how the player is able to turn in mid-air. This could also provide a sound cure which is more dignified and cooler than characters constantly yelling "HURGH! HURGH! HURGH!" as they fly around the map.

I also think the game has to make a conscious effort to avoid "crappy old FPS" stereotypes. Even if it is slipgate-themed, the game has to figure out ways to look gothic without decking the entire world in brown and grey hallways. The main hero can't be a bald space marine.

I'd go so far to say that the Rocket Launcher shouldn't even be called as such. Give it a pet name like "Devastator", or something functional like "Concussion Rifle". If it's called "Rocket Launcher", then people will expect it to act like a real life RPG made for disabling tanks and vehicles, and write it off as "weak" because it doesn't kill everyone in the room with one blast, unrealistic because it can fire many times in a row quickly, the game will be written off as crappy and unrealistic,

Lastly, real effort needs to go into the console controls. The idea that twitch shooters are unplayable on a gamepad is a myth. With its light crosshair magnetism and turn acceleration setting, UT3 plays almost as well on 360 as PC. With a new 360 pad and the right Xpadder config, I can trash CPMA bots through level 80. PC games usually play like shit on consoles because the developers simply don't put enough effort into it; simply slapping a bunch of auto-aim and a single sensivity setting doesn't cut it.

The reason I mention all this stuff is because Quake CAN be made palattable to a larger audience if Id makes an effort to avoid idiosyncracies and stereotypes which aren't necessary and turn off newcomers in a big way. Without any effort to go after a larger audience, the same thing will happen to Q5 as Doom 3, Q4, UT3, and Quake Live - the same tiny hardcore audience plays the game for 15 minutes, and then the community falls apart, there's no one to play with, the game gets forgotten, and everyone goes back to playing Q3DM6 and Q3DM17 ad nauseum.

No, it's not. :P

Games today have no longevity because they are deliberately locked down. Modding is all but dead in gaming today. Whereas pay-to-play DLC and annual sequels are all the rage. That's what you get when you make a game that has mass appeal. Garnering a broad audience is of little use if said audience isn't right for the game to begin with.

The Thunderbolt aka Shaft requires getting up close and personal to deal damage, whereas the railgun is a one-shot kill weapon.  I remember some old games on House of Chthon during Gen's early development where I got kill after kill, in the open, by standing on the Railgun spawn and just shooting people across the map.  In the original Quake, it was HARD to get frags with the Thunderbolt owing to the fact that by the time you dealt one hit with the lightning you'd be bounced to the ceiling by a rocket.  The kickback made it very hard to keep the beam on someone.  Also, the Thunderbolt only fires 10 times a second, so it's more "gappy" than the Q3 lightning gun, which fires 20 times a second.  Remove the lightning bolt graphic and Q1's Thunderbolt is basically a pinpoint precision short-range machinegun that deals 35 damage per hit.  In the hands of an amateur the Thunderbolt is hard to use.  In the hands of an expert it can kill, but if we're talking pure Quakeworld-style deathmatch it's not nearly as much of a factor as the rocket launcher.  As for doing a Thunderbolt in Quake 5, it doesn't necessarily have to work just like in Quake 1.  Single player an deathmatch can work differently.  There's all sorts of creative things you can do with electrical weapons beyond simple hitscan.

"Creative".  That's a word that gets lost on the "modern" gaming community.  Too many games are carbon copies of each other.  We don't need more tactical shooters like MW[insert number here].  A fantasy shooter like Quake with a gothic horror theme is fine as it is.  Trying to make the game down to appeal to a "larger audience" is exactly why a lot of people - namely old-school gamers - got mad with Id over Rage and is what seriously hurt Duke Nukem Forever, well besides being stuck in development hell.  Both games were panned for Consolitis.  In the case of DNF it was the two-gun limit, regenerating health and linear level design.  For Rage it was the lack of control over graphics and not taking advantage of the PC's inherent flexibility in that regard.  The whole reason trying to reach a larger audience is that the CoD crowd will only play CoD.  Trying to copy the mechanics in that franchise to attract those players is just going to make everyone else unhappy.  Making Quake 5 a straight improvement over the original Quake is what's needed.  If it plays like CoD it will absolutely suck.  Make Quake 5 a kick ass PC game.  Screw the consoles.  Port it if you want, but make it absolutely awesome for the PC and people will play it.

Now as for the CoD hate on my part, I've maintained this about FPS games and any kind of combat sim games from the beginning:  Attempting too much realism will kill the fun factor.  If it's a sci-fi or fantasy setting you only need enough realism for the gamer to understand the rules of the environment.  Nobody cared that the Doomguy could run 56mph or that you never reloaded your pistol, or why there were chainsaws on Mars.  We played because there was a freaking chainsaw in the game to cut demons up with!  Quake, Quake 2... you name it.  Big guns, bad ass monsters, interesting environments - that's what we liked.  Why the hell do I want a game where one stray bullet to the chin kills me and I have to restart from a stupid checkpoint just because "That's how it's done on consoles", or the guy runs out of breath after climbing half a flight of steps with a backpack full of gear because that's "realistic"?  I'm really tired of this mindset that action games can't be like action games used to be.  I can still play Doom and have an absolute blast even though I've played it over and over.  I never even liked the original Quake, but I'd rather play that than the crap that's "popular" today.

I'd just like to say amen to Pho's bit on

This is why the only game I've really played besides Gen is L4D(2). The gameplay has something new, something fresh, something that requires you do actually think and come up with countless strategies that never come down to simply "aim better = win" or "get items quickest & control = win". I'm surprised people still care for the crappy point and click shooters that are getting more straightforward every day.. :/

I did like Team Fortress 2 before they completely destroyed it with the alternate weapons and fashion trading show.  The mechanics were simple, but strategy was required in order to actually win.  That and the style was great.  Valve took an excellent concept and completely destroyed it by turning it into what I would consider a combination of "newbie"-style mod ideas that should never be implemented into a commercial game.

Those mechanics are still there and if You don't like all added stuff, just make server with everything disabled and get a group of people to play on it.

I can't really top what Pho has already said, so I'll just agree there completely.


And for a side note, here's a semi-related video about dumbing games down:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8FpigqfcvlM

I know the video is about Mega Man, but the beginning bits of it can be (and pretty much are) applied to almost every modern game. It's a fantastic watch just for that alone.

For the record, the console versions of Quake (pre-Q4 but including QAA) are all class (Q2 on the N64 was an entirely new campaign).

My one wish for Q5 is that it returns to the Slipgate theme of the original. Q4 was little more than Quake II-2 which itself was a dolled-up installment as they couldn't come up with a better name at the time. Don't get me started on ETQW ...

The fact is that id are not the innovators they once were. My fear though is that they are falling into the crowd with Rage being basically Borderlands without the humour (and shite interface). In order to stand out id need to do what they do best, which is pure, visceral, fast-paced combat. Stuff what Activizzard and EA are doing, let them disappear up their own arses with their bloody screens and regenerating health and just dish out some classic mindless violence. Easy on the brown this time, though ;)

@~Va^^pyrA~: DLC in itself isn't a bad thing, except when publishers use it as an excuse to sell half a game. Say what you like about Rockstar, they're the only ones to do DLC properly this generation with the two traditional-style mission packs for GTAIV.

Also LOL at the Sequelitis vid.

Sure, it can be utilized well. But it generally isn't. When I look at most DLC, it always looks too humorously small or insignificant to pay for. These things should really just be combined into an actual expansion pack instead.

I agree with ~Va^^pyrA~ on DLC.  I want something on the lines of Scourge of Armagon or Ground Zero, or Deathkings of the Dark Citadel.  I want a real mission pack with more freaking challenge, not just a minor map pack with a few extra guns.

I'm saying that on a control basis, a gamepad is capable of much more speed and accuracy than is seen currently in most games, because the software isn't up to scratch, resulting in jerky, slow aiming, excessive auto-aim to compensate, etc. If my girlfriend, a female who only started playing DM shooters a year ago, can beat Godlike bots on a gamepad by using predicted, aimed rockets, flak, and stinger shards, and not massive auto-aim and bullet magnetism (re: Halo) then you can too and so can other gamers.

It's worth pointing out that modding isn't dead entirely just due to developers "locking down" games and disabling mod support. Another major factor is that the game content has grown in size beyond the dedication of your average gamer; making assets comprised of thousands/millions of polys and pixels is HARD. Compare the mod scene of Doom 1&2 to Doom 3; D3 was probably the most hyped Id title since Q3 to date, yet most projects managed little more than a few WIP renders before they gave up. Meanwhile, people are STILL making Doom 1/2 mods because wipping up sprites out of <100 pixels is quite manageable; there's even a Megaman deathmatch mod made from NES sprite rips!

What's more, modding itself doesn't make the entire game. Doom 1-2 and Quake 1-2 were built for mass appeal, AND they had great mod scenes, but the root games were still solid.

If anything; the mod scene made Id lazy; Quake 3 was released as an incomplete, unfinished package with only a few good DM maps, extremely few CTF maps at all, and no team modes beyond DM and CTF. They left it to the players to invent new team modes, develop a large body of quality maps, and dick around with scripting and pk3's just to implement simple things like map rotations or instagib mode which should have been built into the GUI. Then with Team Arena, they tried to get players to pay for content which should have been included in the game in the first place, when it was inferior to the content fans had already created. Meanwhile, Epic was offering more, better add-on content as free downloads, AND they had a huge set of modes, maps, mutators, and options, right out of the box.

My point is not to start a UT vs Quake flame war, but simply point out how Id left it to fans to develop the basic stuff they were too lazy to do themselves, stuff which was considered standard in any professional, finished game. This has colored Quake players' view of modding as essential to games' success. Modding is great, but you don't need mods to deliver a complete well rounded game, that can be delivered out of the box by the developers.

In any case, it's all beside the point; appealing to a mass audience is not an option, it's a financial necessity for Id. I don't know if you guys have been following the headlines, but based on Rage's disappointing sales, Id may not even be allowed to finish Doom 4, let alone start a new project like Quake 5. If they don't figure out how to make their games attractive to anyone besides a few loyal fans, they'll be relegated to the role of a tech R&D division at Bethesda, where they just make engines for everyone else's games, and Quake 5 will never see the light of day.


I believe one of the key design elements of deathmatch shooters like Doom, Quake, and UT, is a skill-based fantasy weapon balance which emphasizes leading and prediction with projectile weapons like rockets, nails, and plasma, over "realistic" hitscan, point-and-click weapons. This is done primarily by following a root damage rate for projectile weapons which is 2-3 times higher than its hitscan alternative; otherwise why give your opponent a chance to dodge when you could score a gauranteed instant hit for the same or greater damage?

You can follow the trend across hitscan weapons from the Q1 and Q2 single shotguns, to the Q3 MG and its move to 5dmg in TDM and CPMA, the railgun and its move from 100 to 80dmg in CPMA, and even UT's change from the 60dmg, 600ms reload Sniper Rifle, to the 2k3/2k4 Lightning Gun with 70 damage, 1500ms reload, and finally it's Assault Rifle which closely emulates the Q3 MG. It becomes very apparent that through the continuing search for optimal competitive balance in deathmatch shooters, a median of 50 damage per second is optimal for hitscan weapons.

Meanwhile, if you looks at the explosive weapons across these games, you get an optimal median damage of 125 per second for projectile weapons.

How do we apply this information? When creating a deathmatch shooter, you start with a hitscan MG or pistol which does 50 damage per second (i..e. 5dmg, .1 refire time). The sniper weapon can follow this same rule; for example CPMA's CQ3 railgun deals 80 damage with 1.5 second reload time. Both these weapons can be enhanced with the option of double damage for headshots (i.e. UT). The super shotgun can have a damage rate of 100 per second, because the heavy spread is typically more than double that of any other weapon, and only allows max damage at point blank range; beyond that the tradeoff of lower damage and easier hits balances itself. For a weapon like the lightning gun, a damage rate of 100 is also acceptable, considering it has a range cutoff and must be picked up, unlike the MG.

In Q3, the LG damage is 140 (double the FFA MG), which IMO is too close to the Plasmagun's 200 damage in vQ3 and 180 in CPMA. I can't tell you how many times I've carried both the LG and PG across Q3DM6 and thought "why would I ever want to use the PG when I have the LG? If 2 or more plasma balls miss, the LG does the same damage without the need to lead or the possibility that the enemy moves out fo the way."

The point of all this is to illustrate just how far off the mark the Q1 Thunderbolt is. It's more than double what anyone has seen fit to use for hitscan weapon damage in any other deathmatch game, and is almost the same as the kind of full-auto, hitscan damage you see in military shooters like COD. The rocket launcher may still have a higher rate, but think of the nail guns. It's preposterous that the nails should travel only 1000ups and deal half or a quarter of the Thunderbolt's damage, when the Thunderbolt is hitscan, point-and-click, and requires no leading.

To clarify, I'm not out to critcize Gen's implementation of the Thunderbolt; the whole point of Gen is to reproduce the behavior of the weapons as they appeared in their original games, and I enjoy it for the nostalgia and variety (in the context of Gen, the Arena LG is boring).

My point is though, that the behavior of the Thunderbolt in Q1 is an oversight which shouldn't be repeated in future games, and by comparison, the Railgun is far more balanced and skillful. Yes, there are moments when you can dominate with it, but that applies to most other weapons as well; if a rocket or grenade wielding opponent gets smashed, they have no right to complain, their weapon does more than twice the damage per second. With the right aim, they still could have hit you from a distance, or they could have snuck to close range, or dodged better; they have only themselves to blame.

I'd say the problem with the vast majority of military shooters is that they portray a fake realism which mirrors all the added ease of real combat (as compared to deathmatch shooters) without any of the difficulties of real combat.

In your average military shooter, your assault rifles and machineguns are all nothing more than a Q3 MG modded to deal 33-50 damage per hit, score headshots, and force a reload after 30+ rounds. The simple truth is that hitting someone with a full-auto hitscan weapon just isn't that hard, that's precisely WHY they were weak in Quake and UT. Military shooters are boring, mindless, skill-less n00b0-fests because their root mechanic is the equivalent of playing Instagib with the Q3 MG instead of a Railgun or Shock Rifle.

The ultimately pathetic thing is that military shooters have failed to even copy the most obvious form of weapon balance, that bestowed by mother nature; every action has an equal and opposite reaction. With a real weapon, the recoil is equal to the power it has, and a 9mm weapon recoils more than a .22 LR, while a 5.56 recoils even more than the 9mm, and 7.62x39 recoils even more than that, and a 7.62 NATO recoils even more than that, and so on.

Weapons in BF and COD recoil like a .22 LR even though they pretend to portray a .223. Even with assault rifles, in real life the recoil is high enough that semi-auto is favored over automatic fire and even short bursts in most situations. The more you spam, the harder it is to keep your shots on target; COD and BF don't follow this rule, even the largest caliber weapons barely have a noticeable amount of recoil. Thus, there is almost nothing to separate the weapons in their function, and nothing to motivate you to place your shots carefully; it's a spray fest.

My point in saying all this is to illustrate that military shooters don't have to be as awful as they are. If done properly, they could be simply a new and different metric for structuring skill-based shooters, rather than an excuse to strip all the skill out of the game and play instagib Q3 with a "gritty realism" paint job. Unfortunately, outside of a few niche titles like Arma, Infiltration, and a bit of the Rainbow Six series, there's little way to experience this theory because no one else has had the sense to do it right.

You can gear the game to appeal to a larger audience without changing the actual gameplay mechanics as I have already suggested. While skill-based games are hard to sell to mainstream gamers, it can still be done. After all, the Street Fighter games have a hardcore competitive community, yet are still well respected by the mainstream, despite their unrealistic, archaic mechanics. There are more examples, which I'll mention later.

While Rage's buggy PC release was a seriously botched tragedy, the PC market is small enough that it should have made a relatively small dent in their overall sales. After all, similar games have sold well on consoles in the past - why didn't Rage do better? It seems like a marketing failure to me. Let's face it, while a few of them sell really well, FPS have a bad reputation among mainstream gamers, especially those by "old school" developers like Id, which are alleged to be entirely composed of generic brown and grey corridors. Showing the public a bunch of brown screenshots and a cover image of a sepiatone buzzcut marine on a white background isn't going to get many people excited. If there was any creativity in Rage, the public surely didn't see it, or else they'd have bought the game.

In order to appeal to a larger audience, which Quake 5 would HAVE to do to keep from putting Id out of business, they could retain the same gameplay, but dress the game up with style and marketing to overcome the reputation Id Software has (among mainstream gamers) of churning out uncreative, uninnovative, boring, brown games. Take Bioshock for instance - the franchise has a good reputation among mainstream gamers, even though it's structured almost identically to Doom 3 and Quake 4, merely because of its classy early 20th century style, which is perceived as novel and original in public eyes. A few stylistic gimmicks, some novel ideas, and a shiny coating can go a long way to changing public perceptions of a game.

That's why I suggested making fantasy rocket or pistol-propelled footgear an integral part of the game - it explains the mechanics which already comprise movement in Quake's gameplay as an aesthetic/story concept people can understand. Without a sugar coating, to the outside world Quake's movement looks like a nonsensical, glitchy mess full of homoerotic constipation sounds.

-- HURGH! HURGH! HURGH! I'M FLYING AROUND THE MAP AT 50MPH BY JUMPING UP AND DOWN! HURGH! HURGH! HURGH! I AM SUPERTARD! --

Dress it up as a function of scifi super gear, with cool animations and the sounds of rocket thrusters and pistons firing in place of the grunting, and suddenly it's not a nonsensical glitch anymore, it comes across as a novel, innovative idea which allows for different gameplay than your average COD clone. That's the kind of thing that makes headlines on trendy gaming blogs, not more of the same brown corridors and bald space marines.

The same applies to Quake's weaponry. Without pitching the weapons as creative fantasy ideas based on a carefully-crafted competitive weapon balance, people try the game and simply assume that the machinegun and rocket launcher are weak because the developers don't know what they're doing. Make up some story around the weapons, name them differently, avoid typical military cosmetics, and use some tutorials to introduce the gameplay, and people may actually understand and appreciate what's going on.

In any case, whatever the means, appealing to both hardcore Quakers and a larger audience is not an option. There aren't enough hardcore Quakers to support Id's business; we're an endangered speces. Look at Quake 4, Quake Live, UT3, Rage - none of them have been a stellar financial success. Even when developers cater exactly to games' hardcore communities, they just find more stuff to bitch about and go back to playing their favored older games, and there are strong examples of that in the histories of all the games I just mentioned.

Great wall of text Gnam.  :doom_thumb: :slippy_thumb:

Because those were all subpar titles. :P

Quake 4 was a fairly generic sequel to Quake 2. It was alright for a quick run-through, but little more.

Quake Live should have been released on Steam for $10, with mod support. It's no fun playing Q3 without custom maps and characters. And it's certainly no fun playing Q3 without a proper server setup.

UT3 never really looked worth playing until after the Titan Pack. Even then, it felt slow and boring in comparison to the far superior UT2K4.

Rage is... well... Rage is Id trying to appeal to console gamers. The driving and RPG stuff all feels like fluff, but the shooting is tight and very satisfying. It's also the first game in a looong time to actually look impressive. Of course, it does the game no great service to have been released after Fallout 3 and Borderlands was still fresh in everyone's mind.

This is something I loved about Legendary is that you were using real-world weapons that had real-world weapon behavior.  The low-caliber pistol had very little recoil and was controllable but did little damage, the submachinegun was controllable but took a LOT of bullets to get through body armor or do damage to monsters, the .50 cal handgun (Desert Eagle) had one hell of a recoil and did massive damage, etc.  You could use the iron sights to help improve accuracy, but if you held down the trigger on, say, the M-249 you'd lose any accuracy beyond the first shot at long range, and reloading the thing was an eternity in which you could get pounced on by a wolf and have your face ripped off.  The weapons felt "right".  The game got panned because it was a fantasy shooter that didn't fit in with the usual Halo/CoD crap.  It had a few minor technical glitches and one major one (elevator bug at the end) but the weapons behaved exactly as I expected they should.

Fully-automatic fire is really more useful from mounted guns where you're needing a string of shots to increase hit probability on a moving target, to inflict greater damage on a hard target, or for area suppression.  For an assault rifle, the application of fully-automatic fire is misunderstood by most.  The assault rifle as designed by Kalashnikov is a dual-role weapon.  It's meant to be used as a short-range rifle in semi-automatic mode on open ground up to 300 meters, and in fully-automatic mode in situations where you would normally use a sub-machinegun, such as close-quarters urban fighting.  Beyond 300 meters you have a dedicated marksman using a larger caliber, more-accurate rifle.  This philosophy came about because the Soviets found in WWII that most engagements were occuring at less than 200 meters, and full-power rifle cartridges like the 7.62x54 were too much power for that range, while pistol-caliber cartridges as used in the PPSH were not powerful enough to use effectively beyond 75 meters with any semblance of accuracy.  The assault rifle was made to address this reality and provide an appropriate level of firepower for most engagements while maintaining an acceptable degree of accuracy where rifle-work would be required.  Your average jihadist just sprays bullets on fully-automatic fire because they don't have a clue how to use the weapon as the Soviets intended it, and often because their guns are of poor quality.  A good Russian or Bulgarian-manufacture AK is about 2 MOA with standard ball rounds, which is accurate enough to put a slug in someone's torso at 300 meters.  At 75 meters or closer it's a guaranteed hit if you're using sights, and at room-clearing range a full-auto sweep can take down a whole squad.  That's how an assault rifle is meant to be used - as a rifle and SMG, not just a "spray-and-pray" lead factory as a lot of arm-chair weapons experts often think.  Now as for the M-16, that's a different weapon system with a completely different development history from the AK so I don't want to touch on that, but the theory behind the application of the two weapon systems is largely similar.

Or, when it's been done right it's been done outside of the popular genre, as in my description of the guns in Legendary above.

Rage had issues in the PC market because of the technical problems with ATI-based cards, texture popping, lack of expected menu options, and a generally unpolished release.  Things that should have been tested and fixed prior to a PC release were not.  They really, really needed to fix the texture popping and world corruption issues, and they should have leaned on ATI hard to get the drivers in order before releasing.  That's where the problem was.  Console sales for Rage were pretty good and it had fairly high ratings among console players, but the PC market is where Id is supposed to shine.  They tried to develop all three platforms equally and neglected to give the PC market the extra attention it needed.  It wasn't a marketing failure so much as it was a combination of errors on Bethesda's and Id's part.

This reputation I believe began with Quake 4, and not just among mainstream gamers.  Quake 4 was actually Raven's fault since they completely broke the style of Quake 2 and gave away a huge plot element of the game during the marketing.  Doom 3 was fairly well received.  Rage is the only post-Doom 3 game Id has done.  I think part of the problem is that CoD was becoming very popular while Id's games appeal more to the older generation of gamers.  The younger crowd that has been spoiled from the get go doesn't remember games like Wolfenstein 3-D when they were new and innovative.  They already have first-person shooters, and expect them to play a certain way, so when anything goes outside of that "tactical shooter" formula it's universally panned.  This is why I say the "larger audience" needs to be ignored.  If they're expecting just another CoD clone and that's not what they get they'll hate it, and Id's core fanbase will most definitely hate it.  Look at Duke.  The old-school and the newer gamers both panned it.  Why?  Old-school:  It wasn't Duke 3D.  New-school:  It wasn't Modern Warfare Duke.  It's lose-lose if you take that approach.

We may be an endangered species, but new gamers can find something fresh and different appealing.  It's possible, but it won't work if you try to make Modern Warfare Quake.

Quake 4 sucked, and that is why it was not a financial success.  I'm sorry, but as a Quake 2 die-hard it was the biggest disappointment of a sequel I have ever played.  It's the only Id game I've ever uninstalled to make room on my hard drive because I don't have any intention of ever playing it again.  Id handed the IP over to Raven, and Raven botched it.  End of story.

Quake Live is not Quake 3, and has no mod support.  Since it's not Quake 3 the die-hard Q3 players won't touch it.  I say it's not Quake 3 because it has been changed both weapon-wise and physics-wise to be more like CPMA.  Id hired Arqon to work on it.  I should not have to say more than that.

UT3?  Too close to UT2.  It was one of those situations where gamers did not see why they should buy the same game right after buying the previous game.  (The CoD:MW crowd doesn't seem to get this concept...)

Rage, again, mainly failed on the PC due to technical problems and a bad release.  That it also released after Borderlands complicated things, but having played both games they're not even close to being the same or even very similar.  Rage has all the FPS polish I'd expect from an Id title, and the vehicle element is completely different.  Borderlands handles open areas much better than Rage, but there's not nearly as much detail present.  Besides the fact that both have a wasteland theme and guns, there's really not much similarity between the two.

That depends on who you listen to.  The vocal minority that complains on message boards will always do nothing but complain.  Gaming publications like IGN and Gamespot will pretty much pan anything that is not CoD or Halo.  I've seen the same review sites laud pre-release versions of games for being fresh, innovative, and point out numerous things they like, then when the game goes gold they utterly trash it.  I've seen this happen on more than one occasion.  I no longer bother with review sites, metacritic scores, etc, because of this.  Developers don't need to cater to any community.  That's the failing point.  Trying to make something because you think people will like this, or like that, is a bad idea.  You make something YOU will like and then like-minded people will enjoy it.  Look at the original Doom.  The level design makes no sense, demons from hell invading a base on Mars makes no sense, chainsaws in space make no sense, but Romero, Carmack, Cloud, etc, had an absolute blast making and playing it.  Second guessing people or coding by consensus is a mistake.

I'll give you a small example of my own experience with this.  In working on Gen, I've had to reject probably 95% of the ideas and suggestions thrown at me, and of the 5% I've been willing to compromise on, I'd consider a lot of those compromises to have been mistakes.  Why?  They were suggestions or ideas that, while someone might really like the idea, took away from the core gameplay and detracted from what Gen is supposed to be about.  A lot of the complaints early on in .99a and prior were about game balance and weapons being overpowered, etc.  In .99b, a lot of these balance issues were "fixed", but it muddied the game down and made the classes feel homogenized.  I scrapped this in .99c and reworked stuff from the ground up to be more in line with the nostalgic lineage of the classes - weapon physics, movement physics, armor absorption rates, ammo counts, etc.  The effect was dramatic - a much more polished and proper feel, with each class feeling more unique and the playing styles fitting more closely with those of the original games.  I learned from this that you cannot succeed in any project if you try to please everybody.  You have to stick to your vision.  Romero, ironically, was right when he said "Design is Law" (even if he did spork up with Daikatana).  You cannot stand out by looking the same as everyone else.  It is a mistake to even try.

I hadn't heard of Legendary, and I'll have to check it out, but I know what you mean. I actually wished L4D had more of these characteristics; all of the SMGs and AR's handled the same, making for little variety and very easy spray headshots, especially once you get laser sights. I also wished Doom 3 was a little more this way; for the purposes of a single player game, particularly a horror game, it enhances the challenge and immersion if you really feel the recoil of each shot and have to pick your shots carefully to land hits.

I've often heard it alleged that Soviet assault rifle doctrine was more full-auto-focused than in the west, and the sequence of its fire selector as safe/auto/semi (instead of safe/semi/auto) is often used as evidence of this. However I think by now it's pretty much universally accepted that semi is generally more effective. In any case, this link (http://www.angelfire.com/art/enchanter/burst.html) has some interesting and often amusing quotes and discussion from military vets about the use/disuse of automatic fire with assault weapons, from the M16 to even the BAR and Stg-44.

“The principal value of the M.P. 44 lies in its accuracy and high rate of fire (22 to 28 rounds per minute) as a semiautomatic weapon, and in its alternate use as an automatic weapon, when it is fired in short bursts of 2 to 3 rounds (40 to 50 rounds per minute). Generally, the weapon is set for single fire. Bursts will be fired only when beating off an enemy assault, making a counterthrust (against a penetration, in close combat), or at very short ranges during combat in trenches, towns, or woods. Strict fire discipline must be observed. Conserve ammunition!”

- General Hans Guderian's instructions to Fortress Infantry Battalions

That these truths were observed almost immediately during the earliest combat use of the first assault rifle speaks volumes about how far off holywood and videogames' depictions are of assault weapons.

I seriously doubt that merely releasing the PC version free of bugs would have boosted Rage's popularity to that of GOW, COD, or even less popular titles like Borderlands, Fallout, or Bioshock. Those are the sort of sales that modern developers shoot for, because developing games is just too expensive to justify anything less.

From this link (http://kotaku.com/5851953/doom-4-indefinitely-postponed-following-rages-disappointing-launch):
The apparent source says that Zenimax and Bethesda made the decision based on the "the issues and reviews" surrounding RAGE's launch, which in their eyes has demonstrated "a serious lack of confidence in the project management at id".

Even Rage's console reviews, while not awful, were not stellar, much less the stuff said of blockbuster titles. We could sit here all day and exchange our own personal disappointments with Q4, UT3, QL, and Rage, but that doesn't change the fact that these titles simply aren't grabbing the public's attention.

As I've said before, I'm not proposing turning Quake into a COD or Battlefield clone (Enemy Territory has already done that and failed anyway), but the game needs a new level of stylistic sophistication in order to change the public's negative perception of the series as "more of the same brown corridors and bald space marines". Hell, even giving the game a bioshock paintjob, or making it cell-shaded, would do wonders for the series' marketing.

Again, you're putting words in my mouth, and none of my suggested changes have involved making the game more like MW; if you'd read them, you'd know that.

The truth of the matter is that in order for new gamers to discover the series, it has to appear fresh, different, and appealing first, otherwise they'll never give it a chance. Instead, they'll just see a glitchy, archaic game about bald space marines jumping up and down yelling "HURGH! HURGH! HURGH!" in brown corridors, honking like a clown on a bike when they're shot (donkdonkdonkdonkdonkdonk!).

Look at how Street Fighter IV restored mainstream interest in the series despite its archaic mechanics; they didn't do it by recycling the same SFA sprites from 1994, or even by upgrading to 3D graphics using bland realism (http://i1-news.softpedia-static.com/images/extra/GAMES/large/streetfighterex3ps2_006-large.jpg), they had to give the series a complete stylistic overhaul, including not just stunning polygon detail, but the stylistic flair of brush stroke effects and exaggerated facial expressions.

I actually think this is a driving factor in why COD's weapons all come out so equally homogenized. When the idea is proposed of including a battle rifle like the G3, which offers increased power and accuracy at the cost of heavily increased recoil, they listen to the weeny gamer who cries "no! why would you want a weapon with increased recoil? that only makes the game harder!" Rather than considering the fact that the game offers many weapons and players that don't like recoil can simply choose a different weapon, developers like Infinity Ward can't bear to deny any gamer the option of yet another cosmetic option for what is essentially the same watered-down AR configuration. Thus, you end up with a G3 which performs like a semi-auto MP5.

In any case, my point still stands that there are plenty of ways for Id to stylistically overhaul the series in order to grab mainstream attention, none of which involve making it more like COD or BF. It's simply a matter of marketing, something even John Carmack has admitted to being a weakness at Id.

I was saying that if Id does this it will fail badly.  I wasn't meaning to say that's what you're suggesting.  :P

If that sort of thing was done to Quake... I would feel utterly betrayed.
I think expanding on the Lovecraftian themes would be enough.

...wasn't Bioshock more or less the same generic HD/Brown/Grey/Bloom look that all shooters have had this console cycle? I don't know that I would hold its look up as an example of fresh aesthetics. I know that the Randian overtones made it popular with the liberal art majors, but the game was fairly boring otherwise.

I thought it's underwater + art deco mix was beautiful. The gameplay and plot weren't anything to write home about, but ever since I played it, I've wanted to make a Q3A level in its style.

I loved the part where you entered rapture, the beautiful lights, it would've been cool if they added that color within the buildings.


Modern games dissappoint me. Well atleast most, some are a great play but are sadly rejected by dull rehashed modern games. I personally I think consoles are needed for a great success. The hate with the joypad could be answered with a joypad-mouse controller, you have flawless accuracy and thumbsticks give a console feel, I own one, but it should come with consoles.

 I think the new generation of gamers seem ignorant to the games they play, which is basically CoD. If you want something real and authentic (mostly) you should try out Rainbow Six Vegas 2, you have multiple ways to confront enemies, lots of guns, great customization system, and pulling off your plan just makes you feel even more badass. A current game I'm playing is Deus Ex: Human Revolution, it strays away from linear mission, and gives you total freedom to play an rpg game with some fps elements, or an fps game with some rpg elements.

 The disappointing sales of recent Id and Epic's games are because they haven't been very "Creative". Another factor is the aging of older generation games, but that something else. Raven disappointed me with Quake 4, I loved quake 2, but Quake 4 killed the strogg universe for me. The multiplayer could've been something, but it was a mediocore Q3 multiplayer. UT3 was good, but it was bad compared to UT2004 and '99.

As for the recoil thing, I doubt children would would bother to notice.

 I want Quake 5 to reinvent twitch shooter and DESTROY generic shooters. If its for consoles- coop, devasting weapons, grand level design, beautiful art design, lovecraftian theme, obliterate monster armies.

Admin edit: Learn to edit previous posts. Don't double post. If you want an artificially inflated post count, ask an admin, they'll be happy to set it to 99999999 for you.

It's worth pointing out that for better or for worse, the idea of "Lovecraftian themes" is very vague and widely interpretable (http://www.otakuusamagazine.com/LatestNews/News1/Lovecraft_Meets_Anime_in_New_Nyarkosan_Promo_4581.aspx).

More seriously, we all know that Q3 exists in a world of mutants, cyborgs, space marines, scantily-clad women, ridiculous violence, and fast-paced action which emphasizes fun over realism. Bright primary colors are used to identify its weapons, ammo, and powerups, and some parts of its maps (particularly where team and custom maps are concerned). Competitive derivatives such as CPMA, OSP, Warsow, and UTComp have turned to brightskins and/or cell-shading to make opponents stand out rather than allowing them to hide as mottled brown characters over mottled brown backgrounds. Despite all the brightly-colored ques, the game still retains a sci-fi/fantasy/gothic style.

Knowing all this, look at the following screens and tell me again that a game adapting such a look would consitute a total betrayal of what Quake is all about: 1 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201107.jpg) 2 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%20460.jpg) 3 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201346.jpg) 4 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201038.jpg) 5 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201349.jpg) 6 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201529.jpg) 7 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201948.jpg) 8 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%20113.jpg) 9 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%20173.jpg) 10 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201772.jpg) 11 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201748.jpg) 12 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201525.jpg) 13 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201764.jpg) 14 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%201285.jpg) 15 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%20725.jpg) 16 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%20883.jpg) 17 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%20945.jpg) 18 (http://www.bateszi.me/wp-content/gallery/redline/redline%20anime%20image%20225.jpg)

Actually, if you had to generalize a specific color to describe a majority of its environments, I'd have to say it's blue, which is evident via a quick google search. By contrast, a google image search for Quake turns up mostly grey and brown screens. Also, given that most games today don't contain art deco architecture, the answer to your question is clearly 'no'.

Moreover, the important part is not whether you or I see the game as different, it's that Bioshock's unique style turned the heads of many mainstream gamers that don't normally play FPS, garnering a reputation for being creative rather than more of the same paint-by-numbers. Given that (rightfully or not) Quake has become representative to the mainstream as the root of all generic FPS design, Quake V simply cannot be a financial success without adopting a visual flair which is undeniably more stylistic than anyone has come to expect from Id. The usual space marines, grey/brown hallways, blood and guts simply will not cut it anymore.

Maybe I wasn't remembering Bioshock correctly. Outside of some water physics, I don't recall it being very impressive in any regard... visual or otherwise. In fact, it felt extremely confined. It gave you lots of choices in ammo and powers, but the levels were so linear that it never actually mattered. It felt like it should have been more of an RPG/FPS, or had some Metroidvania style backtracking to utilize the various powers.

I agree that an interpolation on the Lovecratian themes would be more than distinctive. Looming cyclopean cities, alien visages, non-Euclidean and Escher-esque geometry, etc. In many ways, Id's past few games have failed in one regard or another specifically because they felt like they were trying to follow the modern shooter crowd. Slow movements, laughable jump heights, iron sights, cut scenes galore, etc. We don't need a homogenized genre, we need diversity.

But... Halo and Call of Duty do just fine. They're both about as generic as they come. In fact, if anyone is going to argue for the root of mediocrity, it's got to be Halo. I think that most gamers today simply have no heritage due to their age. They only appreciate what is currently or soon to be in front of them. Furthermore, most are now console players. Faster, more twitch based games like Quake simply scare them. Those people will never be interested in a proper Quake... not until they can hide and regenerate health while carrying their only two weapons. The mainstream populization and mass commercialization of video games has largely ruined the medium... just as it had for radio and television beforehand. Just as the internet itself is slowly being walled off into portal sites to benefit corporations. Mass appeal means catering to the lowest common denominator. It's not a good thing.

Pretty much this.

Now, going back to wishlist mode, I want the runes to actually do something beyond just be items to get at the end of a level.  I want them to imbue the player with some powers.  It could be kill-based, or time based, or something.  I keep thinking of how the Thule medallion in Wolfenstein 2009 gave the player abilities.  I think the runes should work along their names, say, the rune of earth magic would let you turn enemies to stone, or use the environment to some effect.  Black magic could let you possess enemies and have them fight along side you for a while, or Hell magic could make your weapons scorching hot (lava nails, anyone?).  Somehow tie these runes in with the game so you can inflict more pain on the bad guys.

I'd also like a return to a more episode-based game as opposed to a once-through slugfest.  Part of the fun in the old Doom and Quake games is that each episode was progressive.  You started out with nothing, and picked up weapons and items as you want, gradually becoming more powerful again.  This made the game a bit more challenging and allowed for more interesting play.  I compare Doom 1 with Doom 2, and there's a huge difference in the feel.  Doom 2 is a mosh pit of monsters, while Doom 1 focused more on how and where you'd encounter things.  Same with Quake.  Some mechanism as to how and why you lose your equipment might be needed.  Quake also had some pretty mean traps in it, like stepping through a door and having the floor drop you into a pit with about three ogres or fiends on you.  The environment needs to be dangerous, not just the creatures.

Ok.. it probably wouldn't be a 'total' betrayal, but I would still feel betrayed.
Who knows, though.. I'd be going into it with the absolute worst expectations, but what's saying I wouldn't come out liking it? It's hard to say, really. I'd have to play the demo.


...As for BioShock... System Shock 2 did it better. But, that's just personal opinion on my part.


Never played Wolfenstein 2009, but I can certainly agree with having the runes actually do something. It's a bit strange that these powerful and magical runes are pretty much just stone shapes that you carry around if your pocket.

I'd definitely like to see time powers; Reverse, Slow, and Pause time. Maybe Ethereal (you become see-through and can't be hit by for some time) power ups in low health situations. Necromancer powerups for spawning weak allies to help you out in combat; that would change up combat techniques, making gameplay feel a little more fresh.

I didn't even play Q4.., really I want something that reminds me of 1 & 2, no dumbing down. I do understand change is going happen, so be it. A good story would be very much enjoyed.

It should be true to the core, with it bring in some variety.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q2OcR_0zCug
If quake 5 looked like this but with more curved surfaces I'd be satisfied  :slippy_love:

I kind of like Q4 myself. Although I grabbed a few mods that made it sound like Q2 though (sound and music that is) I just reinstalled it recently too. As for slow mo and rewind and stuff. Not me... I really wish they'd bring it (as in all FPS games) back to run and gun. I mean find a key for a said door and shoot all behind it. Then do it again to get to the next door. Most of the FPS games coming out now seem too much like the shepard leading the flock to the fields. Too much direction and not enough actual action. Q4 seemed a bit to linear for me but it was still Quake. I liked the story line but it wasn't the same. But I played it regardless and liked it. Mostly because the name and I remembered the games before it.

Oddly, when I replayed Quake 4 again, it felt fresh. I liked it's run n' gun action, its quick pace of levels, it just felt new. I guess this game is good in its own right, although I've probably been degraded by modern games.