Wirehead Studios

Now, Theres alot of talk going on out there about these movies, and alot of people are confused by endings and such.

According to many people, I am quite a source on these movies, so I'm here to offer any explanations that I can to any confused persons there are out there. So far, I've explained the endings to reloaded & revolutions to quite a few people, and not had one person not get it.

So Fire away about any matrix questions you may have, and I'll do my best to answer them :)

EDIT: No, I did not like Revolutions that much, I think they went a bad way with it, To me, it just set off that 'bullshit' flag in my mind too much. The previous 2 were believable, they were Science-fiction.. the third one approached Science-Fantasy too much... But oh well.. I didnt write the movie script...

To be honest, seeing Matrix Revolutions was the best experience of my life.  I don't think any game or sex could even top how much I enjoyed that movie.  As such, I'll have to disagree with you Dicion, though I can see why you feel that way.

As a gamer, I really dread the day when videogames look no different than real-life.  To me, real-life looks like utter shit compared to the worlds of videogames.   However, I was very shocked by how well the movie handled situations that required a heavy dose of unrealism to be conveyed realistically.  Revolutions definitely had much more unbelievable scenes than its predecessors, but I applaud everyone who worked on the special effects for that movie as what they did is years beyond any other movie I have seen or probably will see in the near future.

I have yet to see Revolutions myself, though with the talk about it's visual effects and such, I must say that I was very disappointed in Reloaded's. I was not that fond of Reloaded as a whole though. Granted, it was better than most movies at that time, but it just couldn't stand up to the original. It lacked the subtlety of the first. Really, it seemed content to do nothing but combine elaborate wire stunts and often times lame CGI in a special effects mesh. It wasn't until the very end, when Neo spoke with the Architect, that I felt compelled to know more. Honestly, a lot of what was portrayed in Reloaded seemed like a rip-off of Tron; the human manifestations of programs, the literal backdoors, etc. That sort of explanation just wasn?t present in the first movie.

Of course, the final outcome of the trilogy seems rather obvious, especially after seeing the trailers for Revolutions, however it seems unfair to judge one or the another by itself, seeing as it's pretty much one big movie that probably could (and should) have been cut down to just one sequel. I merely hope that this does not become a trend, as it appears it is with the Matrix, the Lord of the Rings, and now Kill Bill... Make movies that totally rely upon one another while you make totally underrated video games to support them in-between releases.

Oh... I was fond of the Animatrix though ;)

Edit by con: don't forget to put your spoilers in little red text!

Edit by Dev: Ooooh yeah... I forgot :\

SPOILERS AHEAD

I liked the first two Matrix movies, but haven't seen Revolutions. The first matrix wasn't all that original in idea, but was very very well done. It had several layers of meaning on top of the action.

Reloaded was missing the allegories (story with two meanings, for you euro folks).

My biggest issue with Reloaded was that it didn't feel as cohesive as the first one. It seems as if the producers focused more on the action, than the story line. There's very little Neo/Trinity interaction, except during the giant rave, where all they do is screw each others brains out, then Neo has a nightmare, and can't get it up anymore. There's lots of other 'little' things that I didn't like about Reloaded.

I still liked the movie, but not as much as the first.

then you'll like the third less...

We'll see. Reloaded got good at the end.

I also enjoyed Revolutions.  I shan't list any spoilers, but I'll say that the movie was logical, I can see why they did what they did.  Some friends of mine say they left the ending a bit open.  Of course they did!  They'd be foolish if they didn't.  This opens up a multitude of fan stuff to go wild.

Revisited...I was not overly impressed with.  Sure there was plenty of effects for eye candy...but...it just wasn't as good as the first.  Something was missing...I can't put my finger on it.  It was cool how it made everyone think toward the end but the first part?  The fight scenes were too long imo.

I'm probably not going to see it. Why? The movie sounds WAY too predictable. What I hear from people who saw it are exactly what I expected, spoilers and all. The Matrix universe is extremely open-ended, which is really exciting. However, the setting for this movie was given at the end of Reloaded. As such, it's easy to see where the movie will be heading for most of the time, even with the occasional twist in plot. It doesn't give away how it's going to end though... but why should I care, since the bulk of the movie was given away?  :(

That's my humble opinion anyway...

I concur... I also thought that the music during the action sequences was extreamly lame, especially when compared to the awsome beat during the lobby shoot-out in the first one :)

i enjoyed the first matrix movie simply because of the visual style and the fact that the kind of vauge story telling kept the actors from talking to much .(because really they were all very bad)
 The second film was so over the top and ridiculous i had a hard time enjoying it on any level. Ive heard some effete snobs claim if you didnt enjoy the film you must not have understood it and really the only reason it might be hard to understand is that it was so poorly written and acted not because of any of the storys subject matter.
 I havent seen the third movie yet and ill be fair and reserve my final judgement untill i see it. ill also concede that perhaps reloaded will come together more once ive seen revolutions but i remain doughtful i will enjoy it much.

Well, I'm not fond of sex scenes in any movie, but I suppose there was some purpose shown by Neo having the visions of Trinity falling in Reloaded.  Could the movie have done without it?  Sure, no argument there, but it's there, so oh well.  :rolleyes:

I know everyone says the first one was the best.  Introducing a universe always has a "newness" factor to it.  In film 2 the universe is already established, so the newness is gone.  Any series loses that appeal in the second installment.  I don't agree with the criticisms that the second and third films were more about special effects than story either.  The entire trilogy IS one story, with each film being a chapter within the larger whole.  I prefer that to "sequelitis" movies that have no cohesiveness.  I suppose the problem some people have is not liking the direction the writers went.  The problem with that is preconception.  They went where you didn't expect them to go, and where you expected them to go they didn't, and so you're unhappy about it.  All I can say is you didn't write the script.  Like it or not, that's how it went down.

Regarding Revolutions... I won't post any true spoilers, but I will discuss generalities within the film.  I'm rather bewildered at how some people want to shred the movie.  Sure, some of the stuff was expected, but how it turned out was not.  There are SEVERAL events in the movie that went in unexpected directions.  As for being predictable, who cares?  An unpredictable story often lacks direction or consistancy.  I liked the movie and where it went.  I don't like what happened to some of the characters but by the end of the film I understood why things went as they did and could live with it.  I know some people are miffed about the religious undertones in Revolutions, but that's how they chose to write the story.  They did allow you to you read into it whatever you wanted, and to ignore that completely if you chose.  Intentional?  I'm sure it was.  Again, that's up to the writers.  For those who didn't like that, look back to the first movie.  Remember that believing in things you don't understand has a LOT do to with that film as well, and there's this thing called "The Prophecy" that runs throughout all three.  I happened to like the open-endedness of the film myself, and I did like the ending and the subtle yet obvious undertones it had.  Call me biased in that department.  The effects were great, the fights were great, and the story kept moving.  Some things were not explained, like HOW it was that Neo could see some of the things he saw and do some of the things he could do, but I rather like the mystery in that.  It lets you fill in the blanks.  I thought it was a fantastic film and a good conclusion to the trilogy.  :beer:  

really you cant call the whole trilogy one story because the first movie was written and made to stand on its own without the other 2 in mind. it was certainly left open ended but you cant say it was a part of the same story more an episode of a series of stories. There is a diffrence.

That is no excuse for the degrading entertainment value of what is to follow though. I personally thought that T2: Judgment Day was much better than its predecessor, the same goes for The Empire Strikes Back. However, the third installments in both of the series mentioned above were rather mundane in terms of cinema.

Wrong

The Whizkowski (spelling) brothers already had the script for 2 & 3 partially written before 1 became big...

they planned a trilogy all along

Wachowski ;)

Isn't there suppose to be a set of comic books, set in the Matrix universe, coming out in the few few months?

Here's my two cents on Reloaded...


It wasn't as good as the first movie. The first movie was far superior to it by at least ten fold. That whole "We are not afraid, and we will fight back, blah blah blah, lets have a 20 minute orgy." I didn't pay $7.50 to see Neo band Trinity for 20 minutes, I payed $7.50 to see Neo kick some ass. Every movie needs a good love scene, but not one that was as long as that. That was just ridiculous and highly superfulous...

The first the matrix was overhyped in my opinion, but it did something 'new' and special-fx-ey on a big scale, plus the story looked promising, so I liked it.

Then came the second, terribly disappointing, but a tiny spark of moviegoers-hope in me told me that it may just be the calm before the storm - although in my opinion it just tried to go over the top on everything that was nicely balanced in the first of the series. Compared to what was to come, the love scene wasn't that bad...

My tiny spark of hope was definately wrong about this one. More pseudo-religious male cow manure, more nonsensically huge fights (and yet, this feeling of 'been there, done that' kept creeping up), more bollocks.
The scene I still remember best, is the one where trinity takes nearly half an hour to die. It all just doesn't work - it should help to set the right pacing for the movie, but it just doesn't.


This reminds me of the LOTR series, TTT was by far not as good as the starter, but I sure as hell hope the RotK will not kill it all like this matrix movie just did :]

p.s. The story was written, but The Matrix was sort of a stand-alone pilot, if no sequels would have been made, I wouldn't have missed them (in retrospect after this shite, especially :))

my very personal oppion was that matrix 2 and 3 should never have been made, they tint the halo of the first film that was very good

the two sequels just makes me remember the matrix trilogy as a bunch of generic crappy films with quite a lot of logical gaps

ill recomend equlibrium instead of matrix2 and 3

I previously posted this on PlanetWolfenstein:
I seriously enjoyed Revolutions more then the previous two movies. I cannot believe how awesome it was. The battle in the Zion dock was so intense and so beautifully portrayed, I was on the edge of my seat. Absolutely unbelievable. And then the fight between Neo and Smith! Genious! Words fail me.
There were a few boring dialogue scenes, but that doesn't bother me when the rest of the movie exceeds my highest expectations. OMG!

New stuff I'd like to add:
I can understand that some people like the first Matrix more because of the "newness"-factor. But Reloaded and Revolutions take the story much deeper and have much more impressive effects.

From a CGI POV I can agree on the fights being good. Well, at least the zion dock battle. The battle bots were kind of clunky in comparison to other special fx, though. The smith/neo battle was just rather boring, imho. The neo vs smith, and smith, and smith (times a 100 or so) from the 2nd movie was a LOT better (choreography/martial arts background, effects, flow and pacing).
And even if the fighting scenes are nice, that doesn't save the movie for me. It fails to live up to the hype, the story doesn't even scratch the surface of what I had imagined it to be, which .. is rather sad ;]

Oh well, maybe I'm just not up to this mainstream stuff - People tell me I'm whining when I bring up the horrible Gimli-the-Clown bits of TTT - I'll just stick with japanese cinema for a while ;]

I agree. I found Equilibrium to be quite a good film. Though it was not perfect either, as there were some obvious holes in the lack of emotion everyone was suppose to retain, I still enjoyed it. It was far from creative though, as it stole from just about every dystopian setting I can think of... 1984, Brave New World, Logan's Run, etc. I did enjoy the directing quite a bit though, and the obvious undertones were nice (ae: religion is conditioning).

Mr. Null gives it  :thumb:  :thumb:

Might I aslo suggest Pi (I don't know how to type the symbol, hehe)? It's a cheap indie film, done in black and white, which dives into a lot of the same themes as the Matrix had. Though it does not smack you over the head with them, as it chooses to be a little more subtle. I found it to be very enjoyable, though the ending, while significant, was a let-down. I've also heard a lot of people say that the movie was hard to follow and/or understand, but it's really not. You know the general publich though, they're idiots. :P

Pi was made by Darren Aronofsky, the director of Requiem for a Dream (it is ofcourse, chronologically, the other way around). The movie's great and if you get a good copy on DVD, be sure to check both his and Sean Gulette's (the guy playing Max) audio commentary. Great stuff, really nice to see the way that perfect atmosphere was built, how much trouble the team went through to get the right effect and how dedicated Sean was at playing the part.
I don't think it's hard to follow/understand Pi. It's a bit more complicated than romantic comedies, but then, eating an orange is a complex operation compared to that kind of flics.
I don't think the editing was in any way less than perfect - it set the right mood, it helped you get into Max' mind and just.. was a perfect fit. Perhaps the audio commentary I mentioned can help me make my point, because it's damn hard to describe ;]

However, comparing the themes from the Matrix series and Pi seems a bit of a stretch to me - might aswell add Brazil to the list then :]

Tab, I think you need to lighten up a bit and have some fun!  I never saw Gimli as being a "clown" in TTT.  Sure, a lot of funny things happen to him, but he's also one hell of a fighter when they lay seige to Helms Deep, and had a far better grasp about the reality of defending it against the Uruk-hai than Theodin did.  He also got Legolas to back off from Aragorn when they were arguing in the armory.  He's got a lot of common sense, courage, and even a soft spot inside that gruff exterior.  He's a well-rounded character in the movie, whereas in the books he was a bit flat.  I like the change.  Besides, look at the fantasy mythos that sprung up as a result of LOTR.  Look at all the D&D stuff.  You just KNOW something funny is going to happen to the dwarf, and that the dwarf will kick more ass in a standup fight than anybody else.  It always works that way.

Now, about the robots being clunky in the Zion battle, they're big, clunky robots (duh).  The APU's are kind of a nod to the power loader in Aliens, especially when you note the open cockpit on them, which is an obvious vulnerability.  They're not Veritechs, they're heavy machines that aren't all that graceful but pack an absurd amount of firepower.  They're a stark contrast to the machine mind's sentinals, which are very fluid in their movements but otherwise not very well armed.  This is sort of a reversal of what you'd expect from a Starcraft game.  Here we're seeing an advanced technology Zerg horde vs a lesser technology, higher firepower Protoss minority.  A lot of questions could be raised as to why the machines didn't send out more heavily armed sentinals, especially when you look at the defenses around the machine city, but when you see how alien and insect-like the machine city is and the "flocking' behavior of the sentinals (as opposed to more independant thinking) then their form of reasoning is shown to be more like an actual hive-mind, so conventional logic does not apply and it fits.  The sentinals as a group are very sneaky, but individually they're not all that bright.  The closest comparison I can draw would be the command structure of the Invid on the Robotech series, with only the Command Units or higher being able to think creatively.  The sentinals are more like the Invid scouts.

I think what we're dealing with here discussing the Matrix is people's expectations going one way, and the writers' vision going the other.  That's the problem you get when you make assumptions and second guess the writers.  If you make assumptions about how a movie is going to go, and then it goes another direction I guarantee you'll end up hating it.  Expect nothing.  Observe everything.  I still like all three movies. :)

This is hardly related to my sombre view on the world, Pho :] - I just take movies seriously as an art form, and I'd like to see directors take me seriously as a viewer. And everybody gives me the Helms Deep reference for how cool Gimli is in TTT - the point is that that's the ONLY moment in the entire movie where he isn't acting as comic relief.
Part of the reason why I make a fuss is because dwarves are an ancient race in the story, on the verge of exctinction, and definately not dumb. I don't think Tolkien pictured Gimli as the sort of fella that keeps falling of horses, making cheesy statements in grave situations, and generally acting as a way to add 'jokes' to the story. In my opinion, this is unnescessary, and doesn't match the spirit of the book. I can't remember reading the book and thinking 'is fighting ALL that Gimli can do?'. Again, not a biggie since I generally prefer reading the book anyway - but I think it's going a bit far to say Gimli can be taken seriously in TTT, especially after his wonderful role in the first movie.

Hehe, I should've added clunky CGI, for the bots, because they should indeed be clunky, to contrast the fluid efficiency of the machines. My bad.

Also, I'm a cult-film lover - mostly because the bigger part of the movies in this category doesn't fit any of the expectations I usually have. The reason why I think the matrix movies are quite horrible is because I observe everything. I never said it wasn't a nice piece of simple minded entertainment - like so many of big productions turn out, in fear of scaring away the masses - I'm just saying they will never hold as good movies in my book. I've chuckled quite a bit during the showing of revolutions, but mostly at times when the brothers probably didn't want me to..