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http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/artic...1-2003Dec4.html (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37131-2003Dec4.html)

Crazy man...just crazy.

Unfortunatly, being a fire fighter, I agree with this code being in place.  Alot of tragic fires do occur around this time of year, due to christmas trees being to dry.  Having many in apartment building only jumps the risk factor up.

It's not a "live" tree after it's been cut in half anyway.  I detest the butchering of trees, farm-raised or not, to be put on "display" for one day and then just thrown out.  They are living things.  Just because you can't hear them scream doesn't mean they don't feel pain.  I love Christmas for what it stands for, but this has bothered me since the practice began.

If you really want to put up a "live" tree then I suggest setting up a potted, young tree and keep it properly watered.  Then go plant it somewhere when the season ends!

Synthetic trees are generally better anyway. Those nice fiber optic ones don?t require any lights or assembly, nor do they decrease the population of our lovely green friends. However, the basic meaning of Yule does dictate that a tree be present. The rebirth of nature and the end of darkness is not something to be taken lightly, and I think it?s a real shame that it?s been replaced by the birthday of some charlatan, or worse, consumerism. :(

Last I checked, these are massed produced, we have a place that grows them here.

Wow, really? That must look awesome! An entire forest of fiber optic trees. I can just imagine walking down the snowy trails, surrounded by the constantly changing colors of the needles on the trees... You must tell me where this is!

Thin ice, dev.  Thin ice.

Its not a matter of "keeping people safe" or "butchering trees", its a matter of privacy . This banning of live trees is unconstitutional in my eyes. Its like saying "you can't have a garden inside your house". Its plain and utter bullshit and it shouldn't be tolerated.

i didnt even set up a christmas tree this year lol. i usually go with synthetic ones..it looks real most of the time unless u look at it REAL close..i gotta agree with mcdeth tho, it DOES prevent a huge hazzard..but people are too used to going out and buying a tree, and it'd be kinda wrong to just take that all away..

Lil is right, there was a Christmas tree farm about 10 miles away from the town we both lived in, there in Oklahoma. The guy running it has since retired, and left the trees to grow wild. So in fact, there's now a small forest where there once was nothing but flat grassland.

And as for a tree...I like the live ones better than the synthetic trees. They're prettier (to me), and they smell good. My family used to get up one day, go to Bob's Barnyard (the above mentioned tree farm), spend an hour finding the perfect tree, then bringing it home and decorating it. It was a blast, and good family bonding.

If I could muster any kind of holiday cheer, I'd agree with you Con.  But it's been a long time since I've been able to do that.  Just seems kind of empty, you know?

I disagree with you strongly on that Deth, it IS a matter of keeping people safe, and avoiding huge hazards in apt complex's.  I didnt see anywhere in the article where they were banned from a person owning a house.  Fire codes in apartments have a tendecy to be lacking, and the lack of personal fire detectors or fire detectors with dead batteries has a tendecy to make the situation worse.  Anyways, i dont see how this could be unconstitutional.  Not from my stand point.

Though I also agree with Con about having a real christmas tree, it was always fun going and finding the perfect tree.

I can see the need, as lil said. In an apartment complex, where as many as 12 or more families may be sharing the same building, a single fire can destroy all their homes.

I guess my original post wasn't complaining about this law as such, but the stupidity and carelessness of the people that caused this law to come into effect.

Instead of banning all these little things and putting warning labels on everything, why not just ban stupid people? Anyone who has an IQ of less than 90 by their 21st birthday will be executed. Bang, 99% of these accidents never happen again.;):P

Facetiousness aside, this is all the fault of careless morons and idiotic lawyers who chase ambulances in search of easy money.

Also, a lot of people don't realize that fire extinguishers are available in your local Home Depot. Buy a fire extinguisher and use it if a fire starts. Don't just run away from the fire screaming like an infant. Put it out before it spreads!

we dont wanna kill half of america woolie woo

I was being facetious. I did not intend that to be a serious suggestion.

Yea...in an apt complex certainly. I must have overlooked that part :P

Carelessness brings these things into affect. Heh.



First off, there are many things wrong with this statement.  Fire extinguishers are available to buy, but do you know which one you need? Can you correctly determine what type of fire you have?  DO YOU KNOW HOW TO PROPERLY USE A FIRE EXTINGUISHER?

Ok, since we are on this topic, how about a lessong:
Different types of fire extinguishers are designed to extinguish different classes of fire. The two most common types of fire extinguishers are:

Carbon Dioxide (CO2)
and
Dry Chemical

Carbon Dioxide extinguishers are filled with non-flammable carbon dioxide gas under extreme pressure. You can recognize a CO2 extinguisher by its hard horn and lack of pressure gauge. The pressure in the cylinder is so great that when you use one of these extinguishers, bits of dry ice may shoot out the horn.

CO2 cylinders are red and range in size from 5 lbs to 100 lbs or larger. In the larger sizes, the hard horn will be located on the end of a long, flexible hose.

CO2s are designed for Class B and C (flammable liquid and electrical) fires only.

Carbon Dioxide is a non-flammable gas that extinguishes fire by displacing oxygen, or taking away the oxygen element of the fire triangle. The carbon dioxide is also very cold as it comes out of the extinguisher, so it cools the fuel as well. CO2s may be ineffective at extinguishing Class A fires because they may not be able to displace enough oxygen to successfully put the fire out. Class A materials may also smolder and re-ignite.


Dry Chemical Extinguishers come in a variety of types. You may see them labeled:

"DC" short for "dry chem"
"ABC" indicating that they are designed to extinguish class A,B,and C fires, or
"BC" indicating that they are designed to extinguish class B and C fires.
At the University of Tennessee - Knoxville, "ABC" fire extinguishers are filled with a fine yellow powder. The greatest portion of this powder is composed of monoammonium phosphate. Nitrogen is used to pressurize the extinguishers.

ABC extinguishers are red or yellow and range in size from 5 lbs to 20 lbs on campus.

Read the labels so you dont mistakenly use a "BC" extinguisher on a Class A fire, thinking that it was an "ABC" extinguisher.


End of lesson.

Side note, a 5-10lb fire extinguisher in most cases will not put out a chrismas tree thats one fire.

We? You certainly do not speak for me on this topic  :evil:

Do not forget class D fire extinguishers...

Although i doubt anyone here would use them...

Class D fires involve combustible metals, such as magnesium, titanium, potassium and sodium as well as pyrophoric organometallic reagents such as alkyllithiums, Grignards and diethylzinc. These materials burn at high temperatures and will react violently with water, air, and/or other chemicals. Handle with care!!

they need a specalized form of dry chemical :) Mostly used in Chem labs, and such...

There's also the Much-Coveted 500lb dolly-mount halon extinguishers... mmmm halon.....
I see those all the time... every plane on the flight line has one sitting next to it :)

Whoops, I forgot all about that.

Lil's the local expert on putting fires out, considering the volunteer work he does, so listen to him you will.  As much as I like fire, I do not like seeing people harmed by it.  It does dreadful things when left out of control.  Nearly every fire I see where people die it is because of an act of carelessness.  Most fires I see reported on the news are apartment fires as well.

As for the anti-American slur there earlier, I might remind you all for the first years of schooling American children statistically score as well as those in the Orient.  The farther they progress through the education system, the worse they get.  Americans aren't stupid by birth, their system has failed them and they have failed to correct it.  Politics will be the damnation of all before this is over with.  Remember too that Americans are ethnically rooted in every OTHER land around the globe, so you would do well not to insult the genetic result of the mingling of all of your races as you are only insulting your ancestors in the process.  The only true "Americans" are now near extinction.

I still think the growing of trees merely to be cut down as saplings is barbaric.  I put it right up with factory farming as things that humans do that I detest most.  An artificial tree can last years of use.  As for disposal and plastic taking up landfills, you might want to check out the recycling program of the future: http://www.conelec.com/images/powerpartner...rs%20Sept03.pdf (http://www.conelec.com/images/powerpartners%20Sept03.pdf)  This was originally in the May issue of Discover but it's blocked from web access.  Check page 3 in that pdf.  You can turn your waste products into fuel instead of screwing up the planet with more and more landfills, and fighting "wars for oil" as people seem to be complaining about lately.  Everyone's trash can become everyone's treasure.