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shaviro
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« Last Edit: 2004-04-22, 23:05 by shaviro »
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
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screenshots?  |
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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ReBoOt
Mean ol Swede
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Welcome back shaviro! I'll test this map later tonight!
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Elite (3k+)
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Well, I've seen earlier versions of this a while back, and I must say: It's come a long way, baby. Looking good. Nice dark industrial theme, and the lava-tubes give it that broody atmosphere it was lacking earlier. Good show!
As a Dead Simple remake I'm less enthusiastic. Don't get me wrong, I'd prolly have tons of fun playing this map, but it's closer to a remix than a remake, and even so it's stretching it.
Most notably, it's not simple.. It's a complex map, especially for anyone familiar with a rocketjump. Some would argue that allowing access to the roof alone kills Dead Simple - I myself would definately not go that far - they'll be bound to dislike this one.
Again: I know you were aiming for that basically from the start and it looks like a cool map to me.
That's my 2cts about it ;]
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« Last Edit: 2004-04-22, 20:01 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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ConfusedUs
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A few things I noticed...
The spawn point in the megahealth room is a bad idea.
Being forced to rocketjump to the BFG takes out a staple of DeadSimple gameplay.
Some of the Gen classes, notably Strogg and Doom, have problems getting up those narrow ramps to the railgun spawn. Strogg's rampjumping makes it easy to overshoot, and Doom's sheer speed makes it VERY easy to fall off.
Speaking of the rail spawn: someone with good aim could conceivably camp up there indefinately. It's too hard to get to and you can only get there from one direction.
The map is beautiful...but it's anything BUT simple. DS is all about frantic in-your-face action. This version is HUGE. In anything less than a 12 person game the action is slow unless you spend all your time in the center. On the original DS (and angst's remake) you can find action damn near anywhere. Even if there was no one on the outside edge, it was only a couple seconds of running until you got to the next entrance to the center. Your version is just...huge.
Overall, it's a beautifull map and fun to play, IF you have a lot of players and IF you're not expecting true-to-the-original gameplay.
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ReBoOt
Mean ol Swede
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Well been testing this map and i think it's the first time i bitch about a map beeing TOO detailed..most things looks damn beautiful! but they tend to slowdown the player and some details are just in the way. And one thing..making things "stick" out of the ground is generally a bad idea..why? cuz when u play this map online ppls with a high ping tend to get stucked and their movment will be jerky thus frustrating for the player. try to keep the floors more flat. Several areas lack clips but this is just a reminder i know placing those clips is boring  Also this map has WAAAY to much ammo! especially on the roof top i got 100 rockets easy and about 70 slugs in just a few minutes..this will attract campers.. reduce the ammo! Other than this i like this map i consider it as an good pice of art! looks very sweet! I'll give you some suggestions: i higly recommend you to remove the "Upper" level i think it destroys the gameplay. Second i do think you should follow the original lvl in the terms of item layout. Of course if you want to do a remix instead of a remake you could ignore this part however many ppls liked this map just because it was...simple and action packed! Keep up the great work shaviro! |
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ConfusedUs
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I'll give you some suggestions: i higly recommend you to remove the "Upper" level i think it destroys the gameplay. I agree with that post |
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Either that, or call it: Lively Complex
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Tekhead
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You know, lively complex has a nice ring to it...
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Dicion
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hahaha
Lively complex...
opposite of Dead Simple... but complex serves dual meanings here.. nice one tab!!
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death_stalker
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That map doesnt really look like dead simple.And simple it is not.It looks awesome though  .Lively Complex seem like a good name.Oh yeah and yes Doomers do have a problem of staying on the small "cat walks".I fell of countless times.But overall i really liked it.Haven't tried it with more than just myself though. |
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shaviro
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Well. I hate to bring this back to life, but it beats creating a new thread about this. I've got a new version of Lively Complex (formlerly Dead Simple) Click here!-Enjoy! |
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Tekhead
Elite
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Wow, thought you went MIA =]
Aside from raising all four of the original weapons platforms in the center to about a player's height, I'd call this thing done and move on.
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..::WHAT!?
Ogre
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Heh, I really like what you've done with the place.  The level looks great. I see the rooftop having a few problems... if you get some camper perched up there... see sombody grabs the Mega Heath and picks up that medkit on the way up. They will be set at full heath, all they will have to do is grab the RG and they will be set to pick off whoever they want until they run out of ammo. And you have provided them lots of cover with the way the rooftop is setup. Dead Simple has always been a kinda "Frantic don't shoot till you see the whites of their eyes" kinda map. So I think it might be better off without a RG all together. Just eliminate the possibility for sombody to hide efficiently with a long range weapon and that should restore the order no problem. If there is no advantage to the roof then I don't see pepole spending a lot of time up there, they will just get tired of taking shots and come back down to the action. - My take on it anyway, other then that the brush work and texturing look friggin great. Maybe add a bit of music, doesn't have to be custom. Just set one up that uses one of the Sonic wave files thats found in the pak0.pk3 that way it won't add to the file size and you will have somthing to take away that dead silence. |
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« Last Edit: 2004-07-05, 13:09 by ..::WHAT!? »
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Phoenix
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I don't think railcamping will be much of a problem. The bars around the inside of the upper floor make it difficult to shoot down into the center, so you can only really attack the perimeter unless you try to camp up on the red armor area, which makes you a target for anyone taking the teleport to the rail area. You'll get picked off easy from up there. There's multiple ways to the top, including 4 lifts and the teleporter, and people can rocket jump to get up there as well. Add to that the fact that all the powerups, like Regeneration, Invisibility, etc, are down below, and the megahealth and that's reason to come down. Not only that, but a sneaky player can grab the invis and move up top to dislodge the camper with ease.
There's only one glaring issue I see with the map, and that's the height of the lower pipe interfering with the Strogg weapons when firing across the map at someone else. Here's two shots of what I mean:
http://www.planetquake.com/wirehead/phoeni...cs/shot0423.jpg
http://www.planetquake.com/wirehead/phoeni...cs/shot0424.jpg
As you can see, when shot level the Strogg railgun impacts the pipe, while the Q3 railgun does not. This is because Q2, and our Strogg Troopers class as a result, aims several units lower with all weapons. A lot of projectile-based weapons won't make it through there as well, especially Doom's rockets and plasma since they have a pretty good sized bounding box. Since visually moving the pipe would break the balance up top, would it be possible to remove the projectile clipping from the lower pipe while not allowing players to crouch and duck under there? That way you could shoot through there across to the other side, but you'll still have a hard time making shots below since you can't see through it. It would also allow people down below to have an easier time lobbing grenades and other ordinance up at anyone up there.
The only other thing I could think of is if the pipe were moved closer to eye-level so it blocks ALL chance of shooting dead across the map, unless someone gets sneaky and crouches. That would probably require some texture changes to the support pillars to maintain visual balance with the pipe placement, but it would solve the problem if you wanted to keep the pipes solid.
Other than that, the map looks good and has a great feel to it. Bots do not play it well, but then, what DO Q3 bots do well exactly? It does need some ambience to it though. Maybe some hissing sound where the lava tubes are, and a "demon wind" sound up top might be nice too. Music would definitely be a plus. Silent maps loose a lot of mood.
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« Last Edit: 2004-07-08, 10:22 by Phoenix »
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Lopson
Elite
Posts: 1133
Still Going In Circles
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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Go check the Strogg powerups in the gallery for a clearer view on that 99e powerup, Kruz. :]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Phoenix
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I'm giving away a little of what I'm working on, eh? Nice to see you have a keen eye! Yes, that is the Strogg haste powerup. I'm in the process of implementing the models into the actual game. 
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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