Religion is no different than everything else in the world. It has grown into popularity and a bunch of posers are trying to cash in on it. And those that are more sinister attempt to gain power by claiming they know what the Lord wants.

I have no beef with personal beliefs, because without those (no matter what form they are in) we would be nothing. But organized religion always seems to cause more pain than it does good. Not just Christianity either, take the Aztecs for example. They were very knowledgeable astronomers, and yet they decided to kill countless people in order to save them selves from the Sixth Sun.

Many wars have been created and many people have been killed just because they have had different beliefs which were seen in the wrong light. This is not what anyone wants, and yet it persists to this very day because of blinded people following the greedy. If there is indeed a higher power in this reality I doubt he'd want his children to be split by such trivial aspects of life. No, I'm sure he'd rather that we all just go about our lives and strive to be good people.

I could really care less about what others believe. I know that two people are no where near being the same... even in beliefs. Therefore it's futile to try and sway someone from what they believe. Even if the proof keeps mounting against people, they'll still hold firm to that belief.

I will agree with dev/null's last paragraph though.. especially one sentence: "This is not what anyone wants, and yet it persists to this very day because of blinded people following the greedy." Greed and selfishness seem to run the world, but whatever... to each their own. Perhaps that's why I feel the way I do about the rest of the world. *shrug*

And, Omega... I believe you're referring to the very extremists that Pho was rferring to.

Well, you can't be an athiest and worship the devil at the same time, since being athiest means you don't believe a devil exists, so it can't be Satanistic.  Although the flip-side to that is that a lot of people say if there is a real devil then those who don't believe in him often unwittingly do his bidding.  Then again the bible is full of passages where evil men were used unwittingly to do the will of God.  Makes you feel kind of used either way, doesn't it?  I think people can't stand the idea that they're not in control of their own destinies, perhaps this is why people rebel from all forms of control, including religions.  Parents, teachers, kings, policemen, gods...  nobody ever wants to be the lowly pawn on the chessboard, after all.  But then, being king means everyone is after you.  Being a lowly servent can have its advantages.  The important thing when dealing with others of differing beliefs is can you accept the fact that the other person, while they may think about life differently, might be just as happy with their way of thinking as you are with yours?  For a person entrenched in their way of thinking, myself included, it often times becomes impossible to see how anyone else can be happy by living differently, so then the urge to "convert", either towards a religion, or away from, starts to take over.  I do think that it is possible to be passionate about what you think and feel without belittling others for it.  It just seems as a rule to not be easy for people to do.  Educate and inform, yes.  Convert, never.  That goes for both sides.  In the end it does come down to a choice, and nothing more, but that ability to choose is a very sacred thing that should never be lost or taken away.

I think that result of rejecting religion ultimately is that of substituting one form of control for another, that of the perception of a god or gods being in ulitmate control, above and beyond mankind, to that of institutions and aristocracies of men being in ultimate control instead.  Someone will always be in control, and even those at the top are boxed in by the very rules they use to control others.  Unilateral rule, as it were, is a dream of tyrants, and ultimately their undoing since it clashes with the desire of people to not be controlled.  The most iron-fisted dictators are also the most hated, and the most hunted as a result.  Those who concede to public opinion are not fully in control either, since they have to give up absolute power for their existence to be tolerated.

In the end, nobody is ever absolutely free since there will always be people wanting control and always people willing to let men control them.  I'm aware that I'm a servent, and know of Whom I serve, and being this servent by choice instead of against my will means I can be happy with myself instead of being miserable and constantly bemoaning the constraints of the system that limits me.  I choose my constraints, instead of having them chosen for me, even if I'm not the one who defines those constraints.  It's no different from choosing to buy a car, and having a choice of models.  Nobody ever gets to completely engineer their own, after all.  You can choose the package, and a few options here and there, but that's how it works.  The constraints of life are no different, and even anarchists professing lawlessness have to obey the very laws they object to if they want to continue living outside of a prison.  To me the constraints of following my God are a better choice in my view than the abomination of a system that mankind subjects itself to, but others may be happy with that system.  Perhaps in the end that means I'm just another puppet, no different from the rest in that respect, but just a servent of different causes.  Whether I'm better off or not, who can say, but I'm happy with my choice.  I guess the question of religion versus secular life all comes down to who do you want pulling your strings in the end.  How much control do we really have over our lives, as opposed to how much control do we think we have?  The greater question I think is can you see the strings?  Can anybody?

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 Come crawling faster.  Obey your Master. [/color]

Did I mention I was born a Catholic? So I've spent my time in brainwash camp, although a little less than effective

Yes, I think people should realize the kind of people they are, I don't necessarily label them as sinners, because I refuse to add the "negative" tag to it. But Self Acceptance is the key, even if someone continues doing that "sinning" or so society claims. My philosophy is hedonistic, but i realize no one can be happy unless they take a good realistic look at what they consider their negative sides, rather than what society considers their negative sides.

As for your arguement of that an atheist isn't a satanist (although this term isn't exactly accurate, since the tales of satan and lucifer more or less got mingled into one) is a matter of scriptural interpretation. From what I know the whole point is this, Lucifer thought he was a god which is what caused him to rebel, the religious communities believe that Atheists believe themselves to be gods since they control their universe.

Come to think of it, I find the beliefs of the Egyptians way more fascinating than the current mainstream ones. Also, I still prefer reading about Egyptian mythology then Greek, for instance ;]

This all has to do very little with what I believe ofcourse :]
About atheism: it's merely a play of terminology - I've stopped calling myself an atheist about 6 years ago, because this is indeed what it literally means, and these reactions were rather too common ;] -
Too bad, because I'd like to be able to say in one word again that:
- I believe that there is no such thing as being born into belief and thus having no way out of it
- I believe in not believing anything just because a lot of people do, or it sounds reasonable/logical- but because I feel it that way
(my feelings on that matter have so far been unchanged)
- I believe that it is unwise to be close-minded about a matter such as this (or any matter, come to think of it  ) - there's a  lot of interesting thoughts that a brain can toy with on this subject, too
- And, I've been having a feeling that it doesn't really matter what you believe - and more importantly, that it doesn't really matter what others' beliefs are.

Always with the nukes aye Atom?

Can you solve anything without a nuke?

Wow, you're high-school friend must be a pretty well recognized theologizer, because I've seen that exact same example in numerous other places.

Whatever the case may be though, I've always been fond of that one

If you want to think a little out of the box though, I'd suggest looking here: http://www.dur.ac.uk/r.a.worthington/qsd.html

umm... pho, that only works if you believe in the trinity, which is not biblically based per se.

Next time a Jehovah's Witness comes to your door ask them about it. It has to do with your translation. I won't get into it now, since I'll admit it's been a few years since I've studied and I'm not perfectly clear on all of the details.