Is there a remake of Tokay's Towers in gen's mappack, if so, what's it called so I can try it, I'm not sure which level it is, I never played Q2  DM, except generations. Q2 really really annoyed me with the foorsteps, the weapon change delay and the lamest rocketlauncher in recorded history (sorry just my opinion at the time, Q1 was so much quicker) and the left handeness weapon (I was used to weapons in middle of screen). Loved that single play tho.  Conclusion, I'm not sure which is Tokay's Towers and would like to try it :-)

Bah, back in my day, you RAN through those pitch-black corridors! None of this flourescent glow you namby pamby arena boys are so  fond of.

Now that you mention it, I DEMAND you bring back Tokay's Towers! I don't understand why it was even removed in the first place. Or at LEAST have someone make a better remake, if you think it sucked (I did NOT).

don't forget vesperas , till there is a better version .

Nowt wrong with tokay's towers and to prove it i will send it to anybody who want's the file so every body can see what all the fuss is about


It's a cool Map

for 4-6 People

any more and it isn't fun

I haven't played your map yet Flu, but it looks good from the screenshots, and that was one of my favorite Doom maps, so I'll give it a shot when I get a chance. What would be great though is if you included a remix of the song Hiding the Secrets as the music for the map, that song rocked and was one of the reasons I liked the level so much. If you need a place to find remixes, try the music mpage at Doomworld.com.

As far as Tokays Towers, what was wrong with the version in the old map pack? Other than the lack of ladders, I didn't see anything much different from the original.

Also, what happened to the Warehouse? It's listed as being in the map pack, but it doesn't show up in the menu.

Edit:

OK, I just ran through real quick. The only major thing I see right now is the main courtyard seems too small. I know since it's like the center of the map, changing it may necessitate moving everything else too and thus a lot of trouble, but I seems like it might be worth it. In the original, it seemed like the largest open area of the map, and given that it's the center, it will probably see a lot of traffic in MP play. Right now, it feels more like a corridor without a ceiling, when perhaps it should feel more like the open court-yard of Q3Tourney5 (the one where you fight Uriel.) Also, maybe make the cage in the center so projectiles can pass through (even without going in between the bars), although it might be kind cool having to squeeze rockets through the holes to kill somone.

Other than that, I don''t think there are any huge issues. Given that it mostly uses stock Q3 textures, it looks surprisingly close, texturally, to the original, and I think you did a good job of picking out textures that looked close to the original even though they aren't remakes of the original textures. Perhaps a bit more variation and decoration would help visually, but nothing too serious. Probably mess with item layout  a bit. It doesn't seem too overstocked with items like the old hangar beta, but there are probably some small changes to be made here and there, though I can't say speficially what to do without  playing with some bots a bit to see how it flows.

Overall, Flu, given your receptive attitude toward constructive criticism, I have little doubt that after everyone has a chance to give their 2 cents and you make a few revisions here and there, this beta will have become yet another solid map.  

LOL, remember that time we tied on Tokay's Pho? I know I know, you were playing as strogg... :p

Ok, I played the map with  few bots then took a look at the original.

Visually, it's not as close to the original as I thought, though it's not necessary to look exactly the same, putting in some remade Doom textures might spice things up a little bit.

I don't think you really need the teleporters at the entry and exit, since you can just walk from the 2 points almost as fast as you can teleport (the rooms are pretty close to eachother).

Item wise:

I think the placement of the red armor under the exit doesn't quite work. Unfortunately, I don't think any defensive item will work here because you lose so much health and armor going through the slime it's not really worth it. What would work would be a BFG. I know you want to alternate it with the railgun, but putting it in the slime might work better.

Also, I think the medikit in the red star room is a bit illplaced. Since that area is a dead end, it's not really worth going all the way in there just for a measly medikit. The original had a Rocket Launcher, rocket ammo, and two health packs. It may sound over the top, but this placement was a pretty recognizeable feature of the original map, so it might be a good idea to follow it as long as you balance the other areas out. If you put the RL there, move the plasma gun at the top of the steps somehwere else.

Also, that area with the slime and the elevators- also a dead end, not worth the trouble just for a yellow armor. Put something better there. Also, I don't think you need filler like the gauntlet pickup (in the MP version of the original, they didn't even have anything there).

It seems like there are 2 rocket launchers pretty close to eachother, it'd probably be better to make one into a grenade launcher or something. That place where you currently have the GL is a cool secret, but I don't know how practical it is for fast paced multiplayer. In the original Doom, in DM that wall is always retracted into the floor and it's just an empty space. Since the map is allready a bit cramped, you might consider leaving it open, though it could go either way.

Also, the secret lightning gun area, it's cool that you followed the original in this aspect, but I just wonder if denying such a weapon is good for gameplay. It seems like with the 2 rocket launchers and the 2 super shotguns, it seems a bit redundant and there's a need for some other weapon to add variety. Then again, depending on where you move the plasma gun, or some of the other weapons, it could be ok. Also, while the lightning gun is a cool weapon, unless you're slipgate it's not powerfull enough to really necessitate the trouble of activating the secret. If it was BFG/Red Armor/Megahealth, it would be a bit more understandeable.

One final though- you could add doors in where the keycard doors were in the original to break up those long hallways. Also, you could use keycard-colored textures in the door frame to add detail and help people navigate and tell the rooms apart. People always seem to get lost in remade single player maps for Gen.

That's about it for now, keep up the good work Flu, BTW, sorry if this post has a lot of typo's, I'm feelin kinda tired right now.

Uhmmmm  sorry, middle area must remain as is, It is out of my abilites to make it bigger (see screenshot). One thing to notice is that the walls are almost twice as high as in the original doom level, I did this because I felt too cramped with the low ceiling. This, however will make look the area smaller, but I can assure it's scaled like the original. Sorry, but I don't see how it can be done :-(





Music- Tha level did have one of the coolest midis of the whole DOOM, if I find a remix I will cerainly include it.