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ConfusedUs
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Oh, and yeah, I thought the Q1 (Super) Nailgun wasn't as useful as I remembered too, but I never played Q1 multiplayer, and yer average human opponent is a lot faster and more evasive than brainless beasts, so that might explain it, for me at least. Sounds *do* have a lot to do with the feel of a weapon, and some of ours are quite off. Unfortunately, we don't have a sound engineer, despite trying to find one for about three years now. Also, playing against human opponents is drastically different than playing against monsters. The difference is even greater in Gen, as everyone but Earth moves faster than skippy, either through strafejumping or by innate speed. It's a lot harder to hit a fast moving player than a slow one, and the nails don't do splash damage. |
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ReBoOt
Mean ol Swede
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Ok here we go..this is my PERSONAL thoughts about this: RANT First of all Gen is NOT quake 1! if you want everything as it was in q1 well go play quake then! The idea behind generations is that you can choose 4 diffrent classes (not counting Arena) and try to emulate the old playing style for each of those classes. If you have to get these things work together somethings HAS to be changed..how fun whould it be if DooM owned all? And if we are bringing up the ol slippy nailgun thing again so yes the nails where as fast as the rockets in q1. And yes i to think the nails are still a bit slow. Why? i don't know they have the exact speed as in q1 but some things popped in my mind: First the q1 maps where quite small and narrow, most q3 maps are quite wide and large. Second the player model was smaller Third i think the player speed was around 320 in q1 i might be wrong here but that was just a guess. It could howerver have an impact on "something" And i think the generations nailgun model is fine! After all one part of gen is about getting those weapons to look even better than they did in their original games! And i agree about the current sounds some of them do sound awfull. But if anyone of you are a skilled sound engineer why not give us some help? Final word: Let Generations be Generations and Q1 be Q1  PS: I am not angry just in a ranting kind of mood /RANT |
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« Last Edit: 2005-02-14, 03:39 by ReBoOt »
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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Now, I wouldn't exactly frown upon people making their own compilations of sounds ripped straight from Quake1, 2 or Doom, for example. We'll never support or (re)distribute such illegal pk3s, but I'm some people would like to give them a try.
I haven't done so myself, because I'm actually still hoping for a good sound engineer to come along...
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Makou
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Even if someone did create a PK3 of illegally ripped sounds, they wouldn't hear them on a server with sv_pure activated, so there would almost be no point in it.
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Phoenix
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Some reasons the nails may seem slow:
1) The model we have is physically larger for the projectile because people had complained it had been hard to see.
2) The maps are physically larger
4) Doomers run fast
5) Quakeworld does not interpolate projectile positions
All of this combines to make the nails feel slower. I can do something about the projectile model, I can't do anything else. I think what I'll do is just go back to the old 4 triangle spike, make it the same size as the Q1 spike, and put a minimum light value on it instead of trying to dress it up and make it fancy. Will that make everyone happy?
As far as sounds go, yes I know that's an issue. Reload sounds are missing on a lot of guns, and some of our sounds just plain suck right now. I can probably take care of some reload sounds like the Doom SSG, but good weapon firing sounds are hard to do because, frankly, it requires someone standing around with a microphone while a gun goes off. Places where guns are allowed to go off without someone going to jail consist of areas that typically are not friendly to recording - either outdoors, or in a firing range with 20 other people firing at the same time. The alternative is a sound studio with a sound engineer that knows how to make something sound like a gun going off, or else free sound files found wherever you can. I've looked at the last option, and frankly everything I've found so far sucked, which is why I've not used them. (This is a hint for people to go on a scavenger hunt) Some things I was able to adapt, but most of the sounds are "placeholders" for now - something you hear that can at least let you know you fired, and doesn't sound 100% identical to every stock Q3 weapon so you can tell the classes apart.
There's another concern with sounds, and that's how to handle them with weapon frames. I don't want a shotgun "boom....click....click" that lasts across 1200 milliseconds to still take 1200 milliseconds if someone grabs the Time Accelerator. It should speed it up to "boom-cli-click". This means the sounds have to be split up by frame, so if someone HAD recorded a nice sound for us that sounded close to the Q2 shotty for example then I'd have to split the sound up manually, which would cause a problem with the reverb from the gunshot bleeding into the reload noise. I know this doesn't seem like a big issue when the gun is running at turbo speed, but I'm a technically finicky bird when it comes to this sort of thing, especially if you want to terminate the sounds when someone dies if the gun was in a BFG prefire frame and don't want the firing noise to actually play.
In regards to the Slipgate nailgun, keep in mind we do not yet have the weapons properly animated. What you're seeing with the current nailgun is just a hacked-in borrowed version of the tag interpolation that normally positions the gun mapped over to the weapon model. In layman's terms that means "we borrowed the crappy Q3 animation code to test something". I'm just now writing the code to do proper gunframes for the Strogg Troopers. Once I have that perfected I can begin writing the code to get all the other classes to do the same. For those who are scoffing and think weapons will never get animated, you can kiss my finely feathered avian ass, because I've already got both frames and interpolation working for Strogg, and Tab's already ahead of you on the models, and we're not giving spoiler pics. .gif)
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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McDeth
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Wolf3d = 4 weapons, no jumping
DooM = No jumping
Slippy = No crouching
....
I can continue, but my point is, does "old school" mode sound good now?
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Beer? I'm down.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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Makou: I hear my announcer sounds (for instance) even when I play on the Central sv_pure 1 server, so that doesn't always go, apparantly.
Also, I'd be against changing the nails, because I actually think they're neat this way ;]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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shambler
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Also, I'd be against changing the nails, because I actually think they're neat this way ;] I agree. |
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McDeth
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Let me fix my last post.
[sarcasm]Wolf3d = 4 weapons, no jumping
DooM = No jumping
Slippy = No crouching
....
I can continue, but my point is, does "old school" mode sound good now?[/sarcasm]
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Beer? I'm down.
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YicklePigeon
Ogre
Posts: 56
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A good way to get a boom sound would be to get a microphone, plug into working sound system thingy and record the following:-
Step 1: Open an empty suitcase (including clicky noises of the clasps being opened)
Step 2. Slam the empty suitcase back together for the boom
Then manipulate the recordings until satisfied. I learned this from an article either written by and/or involved Lee Jackson who stated that closing a suitcase suddenly, then manipulating the sound would result in a good explosion sound. Eventually, the boom-click click sound of Doom's SSG could be replicated? Until I get a suitcase and find out...
I guess I could modify some bus engine sounds that I have on cd...
As regards the balance of Gen - I remember having this debate quite a few times over the years. I would think that a "Nostalgia" mode would be a nice thing to have =]
One thing, however, that I could never condone was removing Weetabix from Doom's diet - how is he now to get super speeds? Not Doom's fault the others suffered from malnutrition...:rules:
Regards,
Yickle.
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t0ts
Imp
Posts: 25
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Wolf3d = 4 weapons, no jumping
DooM = No jumping
Slippy = No crouching
....
I can continue, but my point is, does "old school" mode sound good now? LOL and also you wouldnt be running the game at 1024  |
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scalliano
Elite
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Yup, that's me
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320x240 ... ugh.
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PSN ID: scalliano
The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
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Nahand
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... meh... i like playing DooM CE, and it's on that resolution :p ... BTW, and for those thinking i only bash people's hard work, i think the DooM Rocket Launcher, Plasma Gun, and Q1 Grenade Launcher are superb - i.e. damn good in every respect, including sound ... |
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
Team Member
Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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And guess who skinned them?
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Phoenix
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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