I like this discussion alot, it doen't annoy me at all. and you make great arguements
I have gained some truth from your arguments, so I would gladly like to proceed.  

Okay to clear things up about the article that I quoted, I want to know, is that justice? Is that right? Are we really a "Free Thinking Society"? Or are we fascist against ethics that were taught many a year ago? What I ment is being Chisrtian, is contraversal., tell me why was it not fifty years ago? Why the debate over prove over every thing when the evidence is in ink in the Bible. One other interesting thing I might add, is the Bible says that we [Chistrians] are abolished "to give prove". The problem being is that people want direct proof in the palm of their hands. They need to open their eyes more and think wisely.

And about my usage of wise. To understand and apply the truth to themselves and others.
Example: there are 2 students. One has an IQ of 80 one has an IQ of 140. Now there is a big final coming up in history class. The smarter person decides not to study, take notes, and thinks that he can get by with brains alone. Now the not so smart person knows this final is huge for their grade, so he takes notes, listens to the teacher, studies instead of going to that party. My guess is the person with the IQ of 80 is going to get a better grade then the person who has an IQ of 140. The difference is, that the less intelligent person has more wisdom then the smarter person, so tell me, who is really smarter? The message; intelect is the fool's gold, wisdom is priceless. Intelect is important, yes, but is not everything.


Of course they can be proven right. Does there need to be proof that cheating on your spouse is wrong, how can I possibly prove that "You shall not commit adulty" is a factual and just? Prove to me that saying "please" and "thank you" is polite. Of course I could write a hundred page thesis paper analiyzing every pheasable concept and phycological theory, but it is pointless and blunt. Proving that stealing is not right, shouldn't even be asked for proof, it should be just accepted, If one has any wisdom and/or intelect, they would know why. Now I can understand that a couple commandments should be reguarded as such by an indevidual choice.


I was being a bit extreme, but proves my point just as effective. I don't think that is your view, but the way you said it, made me give that example.

Please, stop. In your eagerness to skip through my text, ignore core issues in my posts, yet again push your certainties upon my 'blunt' reasoning, you begin to literally repeat yourself and make the gravest of typing, spelling and grammatical errors, adding to my annoyance on an entirely new level.
Whereas I'm defending uncertainty, you feel I should give you proof, while at the same time you are defending certainty, claiming not to have to give any. Turning the world upside-down can be highly enjoyable, but to me this is not the right topic for it.

Hold that thought, reign the horses back in. I'm happy to know you have thoroughly enjoyed it - so have I, up until 3 or 4 posts ago. I'm not the person you seek for this kind of 'discussion', if you'd like, I could direct some acquaintances who are more into it to the thread, but like I said - I'm out, my purpose for posting in here has ended.

Whoah - no need for that.
You may have, to my opinion, violated my arguments, but not my person! Becoming enemies over a disagreement or even an incompatibility on an internet forum is not the kind of thing I'd like to do, and by no means were my posts intended - or yours understood - as such.

Yes, I do consider some of your statements to be arrogant (as you do mine, considering your fervor :]), but that does not make me feel or detect hostility. The same goes for my feelings in regards to a sloppy post - it induces annoyance, not personal dislike.

If you really feel saddened because of this, then I return the favor: I'm sorry for making it appear as though your messages somehow offended or hurt me personally. Your apology is accepted in regards to the combined bluntness of your previous message, but for nothing else, since no apologies are in order. I'm particularly touched by your brief and straightforward visit in #wirehead.

And, if you really feel you need to make something right for some reason, just correct as many spelling/typing errors from any future posts as possible, before clicking 'add reply'  - and be sure to let me know when I let slip too many for comfort.

The end of (someone participating in) a forum thread is not the end of the world!
Soon, Phoenix will post a newsflash of two teenage hermaphrodite midgets assaulting a scantily clad German amazoness-impersonator with knitting needles, and we'll have some fresh material to argue over :]

Well, if we had such a thing, that one would have just won the post-of-the-thread award.

No offense, but I am actually surprised at the accuracy with which you describe me. It does not often happen that someone gives me their opinion of certain aspects of my character without me feeling the need to set something right. I think this is one of those few times. One or two points in the last paragraph half raises a brow, but those thingslead up to me being a bit of a puzzle - which precisely describes my wonder at things in general, not in the least at my own person.

For one thing, I am equally surprised at my questioning nature as I am of the absense of doubt and question in some others - part of why one won't 'pin me down' on something in a hurry is because I refuse to assume one of those attitudes to be the single correct approach.

Added to that, while indeed trying to be critical and analytical in everything, I too make many choices in life on gut-feelings (or instinct, if you will) alone. To sum it up, I feel that I have to think, while thinking about my feelings. And yes, I am comfortable with the unavoidable confusion - it helps me to think as open-mindedly as possible, something that I feel I must do :]
One of the things that makes me increasingly more comfortable with it, is that I gradually feel less and less of an urge to be judgemental of others, when it is inappropriate or unwarranted - something people around me do in everyday life, and which I dislike.

I very much share your views on our 'clash'.

Throughout the years I have also detected that I tend to get offended by very few things, but typically by those things that are addressed here; I have met with a few convinced believers that clearly belittled me in infuriating ways, of which I am reminded whenever someone makes statements indicating that I 'simply don't see it', 'need to see the light', 'am overly skeptical' and the like. While I understand that most people say that to be nice, and wish me to share in the doubtless bliss they live in, the 'holier and wiser than thou' implications more than cancel it out for me.
If love is the driving force in that approach, then it might be interesting to note that I too feel a love of that sort, but exactly for the ability and act to marvel at and ponder about things in ways that others find unnescessary, frightening or misguided.

P.S. As much as I may know about you, Phoenix, I still haven't a clue what you actually look like ;]