Tabun
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THIS is properly scary. http://www.cyberfight.org/site/demos/18987/It's also cool, because you can see the mindtricks, and when they're listening to sounds - with excellent results. Great stuff.
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Moshman
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Interesting stuff. He'd wax me easily.
Listening for sounds, that is uneiqe method.
Scary.
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-08, 22:57 by Little Washu »
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Makou
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I need to get that map in my baseq3 folder to watch it, but just a comment -- apparently, the winner is an HPB, so it must be WALLHAX, amirite?
Idiots...
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Daedalus
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If you watch it, you will see what they mean.... Yes, by using sound you can judge where a player is, but to that degree of accuracy? I dont know *sceptical*  He must have some hardcore sound system if there isnt some sort of shenanigans going on. EDIT: He was hardly a HPB... ~50 ping is pretty respectable, and I personally dont notice much of a difference between anything under about 70 |
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-09, 00:27 by Daedalus »
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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I don't believe these guys are cheaters. If they are, they did it on purpose to make a cool vid. or something, but even that I doubt. When one is used to 100 ping, one can kick ass with it, especially the pro's. If you want some 'evidence' of their skill, pay attention to the following things: - Trickjumps. (perfect rocketjumps, in-battle plasmajumps etc - one does NOT fake or cheat these) - HIGH accuracy with all weapons. I know what bots look like, and although it is possible that some form of auto-fire is used, I consider it unlikely. - Prediction and suppression shots (not all shots fired hit something, but some are used to keep the other from jumping through a hallway or cover the possibility of someone being there (which is not always the case) - The way the armor and megahealth are near-perfectly timed. - The way both players time their progress through the map, waiting around some corners to try and trick the opponent, sometimes succeeding (wallhacks make it VERY hard to fake that kind of thing). - The way the POV-player uses sound, and stops to listen at times (I know this, because it is what I do.. or try to, anyway  ) -- this is not a unique method really, btw, it is used by pretty much everyone of my level and above, at the very least :] I've also played a few Dutchies on servers that were round and about this skilled, and I know it is easily possible, although some of the shots are probably educated guesses and therefore lucky shots :] |
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-09, 04:24 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Moshman
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I never heard of plasma jumps before how is it useful? These guys don't cheat, they take every heath point seriously, and value their lives. Me, well, I'm just Gung Ho in there, without pre planning. I learned alot from this demo.
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-09, 05:19 by Little Washu »
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Phoenix
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I've not watched the vids, but I can tell you that I've been called a cheater for tracking people with sound and timing movement routes before, and I'm not a "pro" player, nor do I spend 8 - 16 hours a day playing Quake. I have not, to this day, ever cheated in an online game. Back when I was playing Rocket Arena I was able to take on and beat a pro player who had a 55 ping when I was on a 56k modem. I don't say this for bragging rights, but only to demonstrate that it *is* possible for an HPB to beat a good LPB by knowing exactly where they are at any given moment, and knowing exactly how to out-maneuver your opponent. Not every cheat-like behavior is cheating. Often times I find the opposite is true. Let's face it, someone who moves like a complete newbie but never ever misses is an obvious bot, and someone who rails you every time before you can get around a corner and magically, mysteriously *always* knows where you are, even if you're being dead silent, is quite likely to be a wallhack. It's not always that easy to spot, but usually there are a few dead giveaways. Sound tracking isn't perfect, but it can appear like wall-hack behavior because of the simple fact that sounds travel through walls.
I will also point out that I am a sound tracker. I listen to what people do, and I often know where they are based on sounds. Grenade from nowhere? I heard you. Stray rocket blows up in your face from nowhere? I heard you. You don't need a wall hack to know when someone grabbed the mega health if you hear the noise. Even common items like armor shards can easily give away someone's position. If you know the item locations, choke points, and have a good sense of timing, you can cream someone without them having a clue where they're being shot from. An unaware player is a frag waiting to happen. A player who is highly alert is a dangerous opponent.
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-09, 05:26 by Phoenix »
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Makou
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Okay, I stuck the map in baseq3 and finally watched it. Everything that happened to either of the players in this demo has happened to me at least once while playing Pho and Tab. Even I've done some of it, and I'm hardly at that level. EDIT: He was hardly a HPB... ~50 ping is pretty respectable The guy he was playing was pinging almost 0. In that situation, a ping of 50 is ping you need to compensate for. Ever sat on a server with 50 ping and fired single bullets at a wall? There's still an ever so slight delay between when you press the button and when the gun fires on the server. You have to compensate and lead just a tad, while the other guy pinging 5 can play as though it's a local game. A disadvantage, however small, that had to be compensated for. |
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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The point of this vid though is not to discuss it, but to simply sit in awe at what some people apparantly do for a living, and be humbled - hopefully reducing the baseless bs. smacktalk that we have to endure so often ;]
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-09, 12:07 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Daedalus
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I agree with everything you listed Tab. And I think perhaps I was just making excuses for realising just at what level I really am  I wasnt saying they were cheating, just that I had never experienced that level of play before. I was pretty much awestricken and fumbling for ways to explain it |
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Lordbane2110
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Woooah, now that's some good playing. like you guys at fisrt you think he's gotta be cheating. then as you watch it more and more ( So Far 8 Times) you just realise what kind of league there in.
I like Pho play off sound, it kinda helps that my game room is sound proofed and that I have digital surround sound on my ping isn't that good ( usually clocks at 70 - 90 even with tweaking) but most if not all the shots and tactics the guy or gal ( couldn't Tell) were lead and were kind of Mind Blowing.
If they were cheating then shame on them, if not i'd like to get a hell of a lot pratice in before i even think of playing against them.
By the way anybody know how to get my ping even lower, I have tried a ton of things but any fresh ideas would help.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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If you don't mind a bit of pimped up frag-highlights, see this: http://www.own-age.com/vids/mirrors.aspx?id=4361 As with all frag-highlights movies, it's obvious that these guys don't hit like that all the time, but it does give you a good idea of what I'm trying to achieve in Gen :] |
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Phoenix
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LordBane: The only way I know to help your ping is to either clean up your current connection (assuming it's not optimized), or else find a closer server. For the former, it depends on what you're on. If you're on dialup, then a utility like TweakDUN can help a little, but getting broadband is the only thing that will really offer any serious improvement.
The first, and absolutely most important thing you can do to clean up any network connection is to be 100% sure you have no spyware on your system whatsoever. Nothing kills a gaming session like an adbot hogging resources and downloading crap while you're trying to frag.
I did post some connection tweaks in the FAQ section of the Gen manual. You might want to read through that a bit. Some of those settings can help any Q3 play in general. The two major culprits when it comes to network behavior are com_maxfps, and rate, so adjust those before adjusting anything else, and be sure you use cg_drawfps 1 to see what your actual framerate is before making any adjustments. You'll also want to check out things like cl_maxpackets and snaps. For Gen, those should be at the default values, but be aware some mods like CPM tend to use higher server framerates so you'll want to watch changing those depending on what mod you're dealing with at the time.
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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I would like to add that for those with a good steady connection to the server (like the Euro's ADSLing to the Euro server), cl_maxpackets 125 is the way to go. Without it, you'll have a relatively choppy connection. The default (30) is way too low for today's broadband connections - this is not any different for Generations than Vanilla Q3, and if it is, I haven't noticed it in my hours and hours of play so far ;]
A side effect is that others will be hindered more by your low cl_maxpackets setting than you are yourself (they see you skip, while you see things going smoothly (even though they aren't)) - so even if you don't seem to notice the difference yourself, know that others will.
Especially the cl_maxpackets and cl_timenudge settings have been battled over to the death by pro's and amateurs alike, so I'd just like to point out that I've never taken anyone's word for it, and tested the shit out of all the settings myself - which means I don't expect anyone else to take my word for it, but to actively play around with them :]
I don't know if my additions regarding this ever made it into the manual, but they should be around here somewhere on the boards.
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-09, 17:25 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Lordbane2110
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thanks but i have already tried that. as for my system i know it's spyware free as i check it daily,
here's what i'm running at the mo
AMD 2.8 GHz (can't remember what the last bit is)
300GB Over 2 Hard Drives
1024 Mb DDR Ram
Ge Force FX 5200 128 Mb
Win XP Pro
Soundblaster 5.1 with digital Surround Sound
plus i'm on BT Broadband with the 1.5MB Connection
so...... if anybody can think of where it maybe slowing down from the above
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shambler
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I can say that I have a 0.5mg BT connection, am also based in the UK and my pink is about 48 on the Euro server. My son BAT lives just up the road, and his ping is slightly higher, with his 1mg BT connection. (both PCs are similar to yours) Can't see why you don't get similar pings to us in Yorkshire, unless you've a really poor BT line or cheap extention leads. Whats your ping like with similar games such as UT? It might not be a Gen problem.....  |
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Lordbane2110
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i'm not using a lead, it's straight to wall socket through a router. i have taken all the needed precautions with routers and have got it set up nicely. as for UT same thing I think it might be due to my area, as i'm in derbyshire and we have a few probs being near Mini Mountains (I think thats right).
as for my ping I sorted it last night, now it's between 20 and 40 on average so much better
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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To get this back on topic a bit: I have quite possibly erred.
After viewing the demo again, I began to have some doubts.. some of the shots seemed to be too perfectly timed. For prediction shots, there weren't enough misses (how can you get 100% of all timed prediction shots either very near to, or ON the target?)
Ofcourse there was no way to be totally sure with a clean Q3, so I got myself a wallhack (naughty Tab!) to see if there's any clues to be gotten from that. And boy does it reveal a thing or two. I'll get you some juicy screenshots soon, showing these guys were playing tricks on the audience.
Now, before labeling these as 'asshole cheating frauds', I have to point out that aside from being suspected (and for me proven) wallhackers, their aim and jumps etc, aswell as the non-hacked supression shots are still very professional indeed. My bet is that these guys either set out to test how they'd fare with a wallhack, wanted to make an april fools demo or tried to make some people look bad through faked names.. hacks or no hacks, they'd still kick my ass, is my bet ;]
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« Last Edit: 2005-04-13, 15:49 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Daedalus
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Indeed, wallhacking doesnt give you the automatic ability to say, plasma jump perfectly, or land rails with staggering accuracy.
Thats just practice and skill.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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warning: big loadtimes, big animated gifs: http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/cheats/cheat_01.jpg.. is actually an example of why I have my doubts about this aswell; this is either a very brilliantly made hide-the-cheat-prediction error, they weren't using them all the time or they simply didn't use cheats in the first place. the rest.. shows why I do think at least the POV player was using wallhacks.. |
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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