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Author Topic: Slipgate (OCD Fix)  (Read 25202 times)
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Thomas Mink
 

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HeLLSpAwN

« on: 2005-05-03, 10:36 »

Right... so yes, we all know I'm a Slipgate fanboy. I've been researching a few things here and there, reacquainting myself with q1 because I've been slacking a bit there. Anyway, I know this is a mod.. and I know it won't feel exact.. but being told it will feel extremely close kinda gets one (me) in a mood to post a few things. No, I wasn't comparing physics.. or anything of that nature. I was looking at minor things really. Things I feel go with overall presentation.

Just a simple 'no' or whatever will suffice, and you'll never hear anything on the topic from me again. But with 1.0 looming in the future, and them being on my mind for God knows what reason, I figured I might bring them up.

Now, I'm not saying 'This must be done or I'm quitting!' or anything of the like. Just friendly... things...  from an OCD Hellspawn. (Couldn't find an appropriate word there, sorry).

Right, so let's get started.

Health
Slipgate's maximum health should be 250. After going over 100, it should wait a few seconds before it starts to decay.

Nailgun
The first shot from the nailgun should always be the right barrel. Currently, it alternates when just 'tapping' like it would if you held down the trigger.

Super Nailgun
Odd as it might sound, the barrels should rotate in the opposite direction. That is all.

Nails (in general)
Yes, I'm bringing this up again. But the nails right now are comparable to (Slippy) rockets in terms of size. Take away the rocket's flame and they're actually bigger! After doing tests to help ease my mind, the speed doesn't bother me any more... I guess just 'knowing' fixed that, but the size is still there. If it suits ya, just shrink the current model down to size.. then it's not a basic 4 poly spike. Tho being that small, it'd really go kinda unnoticed, huh?

But really... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Vae...QWRockNail2.jpg as compared to... http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v246/Vae...e3/RockNail.jpg
The nails were always hard(er) to see when flying through the air. Slipgate - Wink


All in all, those are the main ones. I could say about the '666' with the Pentagram, or how Slippy lost armor while under the effect... but those are even minor-er issues. Especially with the armor system in place.. might not be a good idea to penalize the ol' armor.

Love me, or hate me, I'll still always be here. Because regardless, this is still one of the best games I've played. Sorry if I annoyed someone, somehow.. was not intentional. Just needed to clear my mind from the massive OCD fix is all. Slipgate - Smile (Pathetic, I know... but, *shrug*)

Slipgate - Ownage
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Makou
 

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« Reply #1 on: 2005-05-03, 10:54 »

Health: This is known. I could be wrong, but I think it's a Q3A issue preventing both from working "right"...

Nailgun: Known. The animation it uses at the moment is hacked in, and obviously, will be fixed when the real deal is finished.

Super Nailgun: Known. And what you didn't mention is that it should stop on a dime when the trigger is released. It currently uses the same rotation code as the Arena Machinegun, just like the other "rotating" weapons (gats, chainguns, hyperblasters). This will be fixed when the animations are finished.

Nail size: Requested, actually. People were complaining that they were too hard to see, so Phoenix increased the size of the projectiles. And then people started complaining about the speed. Related? Probably...

The '666' health with Invul won't be done at this point, except maybe in Oldschool mode. Same with the armor loss with the powerup active. This is because Invulnerability is no longer guaranteed 100% protection, and it'd be pretty silly to suddenly have to pound 666 health out of a Slipgater when he's only taking 1/3 damage from all strikes. Slipgate - Wink
« Last Edit: 2005-05-03, 13:20 by Makou » Logged

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Tabun
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« Reply #2 on: 2005-05-03, 15:25 »

What Makou says. Additionally, the health behaviour would have to function likewise for Strogg. I'm sure Pho has all this in his plans :]
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« Reply #3 on: 2005-05-03, 16:01 »

I believe we deliberately left out the 250 health thing, for balance reasons, for the same reason we halved the armor values. Skippy was too easy to tank to the point you couldn't kill him.
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« Reply #4 on: 2005-05-03, 16:39 »

*cough* if i don't rember it wrong slippy could hold 255 or 256 health tho it degreaded twice as fast as normal when u hitted it over 200
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Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #5 on: 2005-05-03, 16:41 »

Invuln never gave 666 health. It replaced the armor value with a red '666', which was actually somewhat false... since it just made you unable to lose health. You still lost armor when hit, but the '666' kinda made it go unnoticed unless you paid close attention to your armor before picking it up.

And actually... the decay rate depended on how many megahealths you picked up. If ya get 1, giving 200... then run around and get a second, to 250, it'll decay just the same.. minus the delay. If you pick up a third, it'll decay twice as fast (possibly faster) till you're down to 100.

And I didn't bring up the 'stopping on a dime' thing because I knew it was known. Slipgate - Smile

And danke for easing my mind. I was expecting a flame or two... why? I dunno. (Blame the OCD!).
« Last Edit: 2005-05-03, 16:51 by ~SpAwN~ » Logged

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Makou
 

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« Reply #6 on: 2005-05-03, 17:39 »

I don't think a 250 max health on Slipgate would be balance-killing, considering most maps don't even have two megahealths close enough to one another that this would be an issue (Abandoned Base is the only exception I can think of), and unless somebody manages to take no damage at all, the health decay is enough to prevent it from happening too much on 1MH maps. The Regeneration pickup could probably be made to cap at 200, the same as the +5 health pickups, and I believe the Autodoc tech already caps at 150.

An argument to include this: Doom's health max is 200, but it's also the only class without decay above 200. I think that's a bigger "balance issue" than an max boost to 250. For the record, the decay rate increased on every pickup, at least up to two (I've never acquired more than two at a time).

As for the armor, that's somewhat a different issue, since that's much easier to come across (shards are quite literally EVERYWHERE, far more common than +5 health items)...

Spawn: My fault on where the 666 appeared. I thought it was health, since that's what's protected.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #7 on: 2005-05-03, 17:56 »

Quote from: ~SpAwN~
Health
Slipgate's maximum health should be 250. After going over 100, it should wait a few seconds before it starts to decay.
Known, and this was more of a "didn't get around to it yet" than a direct balance concern.

Quote
Nailgun
The first shot from the nailgun should always be the right barrel. Currently, it alternates when just 'tapping' like it would if you held down the trigger.
Will be fixed with animation code.

Quote
Super Nailgun
Odd as it might sound, the barrels should rotate in the opposite direction. That is all.
Will be fixed with animation code, among other things.

Quote
Nails (in general)
Cvar for alternate model has been proposed (by me) to either use a cylindrical or 4-poly spike, or add all three in as options so we can satisfy both purists and those who actually like the current nail model.

Quote
I could say about the '666' with the Pentagram, or how Slippy lost armor while under the effect... but those are even minor-er issues.
On the to-do list at some point.

Nothing of what you mention here deserves flaming.  These are valid questions and concerns I'd expect from any oldschooler. Slipgate - Wink
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Makou
 

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« Reply #8 on: 2005-05-03, 18:00 »

Makes me wonder if you even read my post, Pho. Slipgate - Sad
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Moshman
 
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« Reply #9 on: 2005-05-03, 18:09 »

Here is an extremly picky thing I was afraid to mention for the very same reasons. Will there be class specific weapon walking animation? (I belive it is called "weapon bobbing") and sounds for
things like picking up items, weapons and ammo?

me runs and hides in a fruitless attempt to survive :p
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Makou
 

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« Reply #10 on: 2005-05-03, 19:24 »

Walking animation gets a resounding "yes." That's part of the promised first-person animations, isn't it? Slipgate - Wink

As for item pickups, I think that's something Phoenix wants to include, but there's that issue of "making it sound like it should," which is kind of hard to do right now because we lack 1) sufficient info on what makes a "legal" sound and 2) someone to actually make the sounds.
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Moshman
 
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« Reply #11 on: 2005-05-03, 20:01 »

I have some auditorial editing experiance, maybe I can help when or if the time comes.
But for now I'm glad most of the questions runnning through mind are answered.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-03, 20:02 by Little Washu » Logged

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« Reply #12 on: 2005-05-03, 20:02 »

Quote from: Makou
The '666' health with Invul won't be done at this point, except maybe in Oldschool mode ...
IMHO the Invul/Battlesuit option should be independent of Old Skool mode. After all, one class' Invul nerf is another class' BS boost. Meat man's one is poison man's another, etc. Slipgate - Smile

Radiation suits, anyone?

(ducks to avoid potential Strogg railslug)
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shambler
 
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« Reply #13 on: 2005-05-03, 21:15 »

I believe the slippy nails were a lot smaller, but I prefer them as they are myself. the concept of having a foot long steel dart stuck in you is pretty horrible.( Like Spawn I love this class, as it was my first game: )
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« Reply #14 on: 2005-05-04, 07:24 »

In Quake and when you are midair, hold back. You just stop in mid-air and fall, in Generations you fly backwards too
I personally believe there are a lack of Slipgate models too. Tab's Enforcer is great and hope it is included in the next version.
A personal issue with me is the lack of models for the classes except the Arena side.
In the manual online you mention a character: Jaeger
Has been there for quite awhile but I haven't heard or seen of this model, in both this and the orig. Quake.

Additional models which would be a great addition to Slipgaters (IMO) are:
Enforcer - added already by Tab.
Grunt - Possible with just a Ranger skin, but he sounds completly different.
Ogre - In QuakeTest he used a nailgun and chainsaw, retail he uses a grenade launcher and chainsaw. So he has a knowledge of using more weapons than any other monster in Quake Slipgate - Tongue.
Zombie - Basically the last human-like shaped character in the game. I would of said Shambler but that might be a little much although that is my favorite enemy.

This brings the Slipgaters model count to 9 (8 if you exclude Jaeger) which makes it match the Arena side count (arrording to manual).

Same would have to go for Doom, Stroggs and Earth.
Doom
Update Bones to have sholder pads.
Update Doom model - Zombies (Human, Sargent, Chaingunner) - All somewhat possible with just a reskin of the Doom model.

Archvile
Imp
Hellknight (With Baron reskin)
CyberDemon but with no Rocket arm or have it with and make the weapon you have be the hand.

Stroggs
Gunner
Enforcer
Guard (with all the sub-class skins)
Iron Maden or Tank (with Commander skin)

Earth
Hans Grosse (with Trans Grosse skin)
Hitler (kinda debatible though, don't want to offend some users)
Guard (can has SS, Officer and Mutant/Zombie skin)
Heinrich
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Kingu
 

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« Reply #15 on: 2005-05-04, 10:45 »

I think that not a hitler model rather his robo suit with custom head.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-04, 10:45 by Kingu » Logged
Tabun
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« Reply #16 on: 2005-05-04, 14:48 »

A couple notes on that whole list:

1) There's no way in hell we're going to get away with remaking tons of monsters for an official release. Look at Reborn. We're not going to get foxed, if there's anything we can do about it.

2) For those who don't know me well yet: I loathe skins slapped on models to make them represent monsters. It doesn't work. Q3 default models not only suck ass in general (being very low poly), they also suck specifically for this type of thing (having incredibly sucky skin maps). Besides, I want re-animated monsters for Resurgence, since monsters will have to walk normally, instead of run, sidestep, stand still instead of bob up and down like a nutter, etc. Since that is a hell of a lot of work in itself, one may aswell make a new mesh.

3) We're not going to try to get each and every class (about) the same amount of models and/or skins. The arena class is also not a good reference for this kind of purpose.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-04, 14:49 by Tabun » Logged

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« Reply #17 on: 2005-05-04, 17:06 »

Mak:  I read everyone's posts.  I just wanted to put the "official line" out there.  Thumbs up!
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« Reply #18 on: 2005-05-04, 17:29 »

As the Tabs said, it is absolutly impossible and illegal to release it with Gen 1.0. Impossible being that it is a ton of work to sketch the peliminaries and get them in a 3d modeling application, model it , skin it, animate it, and create sounds for it (which I hope I could help in that area as soon school finishes up for the year). Illegal: well that has been explained 10 times 10 to the millionth power. Go to this thread for just one of those explainations.
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scalliano
 

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« Reply #19 on: 2005-05-04, 20:05 »

Plus, the Cyberdemon has already been done, complete with aforementioned hand attachment:

http://www.fileplanet.com/83506/80000/file...Q3-Player-Model

Not great, but hey, only a handful of Q3 PPMs are.

 Slipgate - Off Topic BTW Tab: Sorry for spamming blimps last night. I don't usually stay alive long enough to have 26 of them.
« Last Edit: 2005-05-04, 20:11 by scalliano » Logged

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