Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Uh oh, here goes Tab, ranting about a problem again.. ;] What problem? The problem of choppy connections to servers. While the game may seem to run smoothly on the client side (it is actually transparantly choppy, so to speak), there can be some real scary shit going on for the rest of the players. http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/laggy_doom_ohdear.zipWhile I by no means am aiming well in this demo, I guess anyone would have a hard time here ;] For more info on helping prevent this effect (provided this is possible and/or not ISP-related, ofcourse), read the FAQ on our website: http://www.wireheadstudios.org/generations/faq.phpSomething not noted in the FAQ (unless I added and forgot about it) is that very low FPS (say, 40 and below) generate choppy play similar to this too. So if you're running high quality and your machine can't quite handle it, tune things down a bit so you won't chop so much. Disclaimer: Not directed at you Washu, but I used tonights demo simply because it shows the problem so clearly. Normally you don't chop this much, of that I am sure. |
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« Last Edit: 2005-08-19, 01:15 by Tabun »
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Phoenix
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Washu I didn't have trouble hitting, except from just plain missing and being out of practice, but I didn't run into anything ping-related outside of my own stupid lag. I still have trouble with Kingu teleporting all over the place though, and poor scalliano was having system problems and kept disconnecting. 
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Moshman
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Oh that's no problem Tab, I'm flattered that I'm the center of a demonstration. :]
I seen the demo, and that is so odd, why would that happen? I was just fine from my end.
My graphics were really high, 1280X1024, 32bit textures,, highest quality textures, adv. shadows, but my machine ran perfectly, because (not to brag :] ) it is extremely powerful and fast. I don't know how that can effect netcode though.
Thats weird, watching myself, attack Tab from his perpective, weird, and fun too.
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« Last Edit: 2005-08-19, 03:44 by Little Washu »
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Lopson
Elite
Posts: 1133
Still Going In Circles
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Thanks to your explanations in the topic "FPS", my game runs much more smoother both LAN & Internet. Thanks Tab!
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Kingu
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I think that on that machhine, celeron 1.3 256 sdram (100hz) Radeon 9250 256MB i cant help getting more fps.
I use this settings now:
r_mapoverbright 1
cg_dlightlevel 1
cg_dlighttype 2
cg_dlightlightning 1
cg_dlightflame 1
r_picmip 1
Cant help it but r_shadows 2
Changed now r_detailedtextures to 0 but i think it doezn't help mutch.
1024x768 if fullscreen and 960x720 if in window
geometric detail high, 32 bits
Any ideas ?
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Moshman
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32 bit textures really does a bit on fps turn it to 16 bit, and I'd change the rez to 800X600 for good measure. And if you have those complex shadows, turn them to blob, I tried that complex shadow thing, and it cut my FPS in half!
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« Last Edit: 2005-08-19, 12:43 by Little Washu »
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Posts: 3330
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Dynamic lighting and r_shadows 2 (1 doesn't hit very hard) are kind of tough on the system. You can always make a backup of your q3config.cfg, and disable ALL beautiful stuff, and see how much FPS you can max out at - then you know what tweaking can optimally do, and how beauty vs speed adjustments pay off. The quickest way to glory is ofcourse a reduction of the resolution..
Ofcourse, I wouldn't ever support turning Gen ugly - maybe someone should sponsor Kingu, and get him a brand new system ;]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Kingu
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I run shadows 2 but with other i was teleporting too, but i'll try it next game.
And Phoenix, Anisotropic Filtering is set to program selectable, and if i correctly (translating) understand FSAA so that is set like that filtering.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Elite (3k+)
Posts: 3330
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There is teleporting, and there is teleporting. If you run at 20 fps on average, you'll be impossible to hit as oppossed to being simply moderately annoyingly lagged at 40+ fps (or thereabouts). Tweaking will only yield big results if done on a bigger scale and tested per setting (cg_drawfps 1  ) |
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Kingu
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I usualy have 40 to 70 fps, average
Maby some times with close napalm it goez lower but that is averege.
I use com_maxfps 85 becose of monitor refresh. | :
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« Last Edit: 2005-08-19, 19:50 by Kingu »
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Hmm, then apparantly the FPS levels for lag problems are different than I thought they were. It may be worth trying to see what happens if you restrict your FPS with a com_maxfps 60, and see what that does? I'm quite interested in the effects and causes here, since anything we find out can prove useful for our FAQ :]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Moshman
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My monitor refresh rate is 100hz and my FPS is right on 100. May it be that?
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Posts: 3330
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That's pretty good Washu - it probably means your system can handle more, but is limited at 100 (either through com_maxfps or r_swapinterval?) - 100. 125 is considered ideal, 80 is considered acceptable, and I don't think anything stable above the latter will give you serious problems.
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Moshman
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I haven't tried any higher yet.
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« Last Edit: 2005-08-19, 23:44 by Little Washu »
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Moshman
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Okay I've did some adjustments FPS. Right now, beleive it or not the game's stable FPS online is 200!  Single player is over 300! It seems like what ever I set it to, it just wants to keep increasing. I'm pleased with that. |
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Posts: 3330
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Remember that you should probably never use anything above com_maxfps 125 for online play. Higher will clog the connection thanks to id's wonderful code ;]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Kingu
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A few additional questions::
1) Do you have Compressed Textures enabled? Turning that on is a tremendous help and is always recommended.
2) What is your network connection? Dial-up, Cable, DSL?
3) What are your /rate and /cl_maxpackets settings?
4) What does your netgraph typically look like in-game?
5) Do you leave other programs running in the background that might communicate over the net?
Those might help give us a picture of your setup. If your FPS is holding steady and not dipping down when you get lag spikes, then it's not an FPS related issue, but something network-related. Maybe we can help iron it out. 1 I have it on 2 Cable 786 kb/s dl and 128 kb/s up 3 Rate 20000 Cl_maxpackets 125 4 Like in atachment, that yellow and red spice are showing wiht 10 sec frequency. 5 Actualy i have communicator runing in background, but when i had if off, Tab didn't sait that i teleport less. That communicator once in a wile writes some things of h.drive, so than i have drops in framerate, but that is not helping me while playing either. I have to check that averege fps again, becose i'm not sure them now. Does q3 is more optimised for Geforce cards than Radeons ? Earlier i had GForce4 mx and it looks like new card didn't increased performance wery much. |
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Phoenix
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Your rate and cl_maxpackets look like Tab's settings. They're great if you have a LAN connect or one very clean connect to the server, but you might try lowering the rate to 15,000 or 10,000, and try cutting the cl_maxpackets in half. I don't see anything that indicates your FPS is to blame. It sounds like your network is overloaded with packets. Both rate and cl_maxpackets load your upstream. If set too low (like 3000 rate and cl_maxpackets 20) you'll have constant chop, if set too high, you can get very choppy or even freeze up for a moment when there's a lot of activity, especially if you're issuing a lot of commands to the server, like firing a chaingun while jumping and dodging.
I've tried higher rate and cl_maxpacket values without success. Typically I use a rate of 10,000 and I use the default cl_maxpackets of 30 because my upstream is limited to around 35 - 45KB/s. Try experimenting with those values, start at half of what you're using now, and see if it improves any. Once you get a stable game, then see if you can run with higher settings.
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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