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Phoenix
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A Lafayette Police officer placed plastic restraints on Bourgeois? wrists while she continued to pray, and he then led her away.
A group of about a dozen protestors stood on the shoulder of Johnston Street in what police spokesman Cpl. Mark Francis said was a peaceful protest.
Bourgeois was arrested because she did not leave after being asked, Francis said. http://www.2theadvocate.com/news/acadiana/2860016.htmlCongress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. - Amendment I, Constitution of the United States of America http://www.archives.gov/national-archives-...transcript.htmlI guess you can only peaceably assemble when it's convenient for certain interests, the free exercise of religion not being one of them. I wonder what else they'll have to repress before people wake up. |
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Makou
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There is much information missing here, and that lack of information is exactly why I'm not going to throw a fit about this one.
From reading this, she was not arrested for practicing her religion in public, but for not leaving the establishment when asked. Any person can be asked to leave any place of business for disrupting business -- the manager or person "on duty" at the time likely felt this way -- and it is within the establishment's right to have someone removed if they do not comply.
Unless more information becomes available, like the person responsible for calling the police clearly being anti-religious, I don't see any reason to blow a whistle on this event.
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Phoenix
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I would like to point out that it says she was standing on the shoulder of a public street - not inside a place of business. This means she was on property that blongs to the public. (pub?lic n. 1: The community or the people as a whole.) That means she had every right to peaceably stand there and pray because that street belongs to her as much as the next man.
Half a million illegal immigrants can clog major transit arteries and disrupt people's lives, commerce, and they're left alone. Gays and lesbians can march freely in rallies and protests. People can protest wars in the same manner. But you can't peacefully pray on a public sidewalk outside of a movie theater, despite the fact that the freaking US constitution says you can. What will it take before it becomes too late, hmm? Or should it only matter when it affects someone personally? How slippery does the slope have to get before people realize how far they've already slid down it? Apathy is the doom of freedom. It does not require guns, or swords, or conquering armies marching through the streets, it just requires people to sit on their asses and do nothing while their freedoms are stripped away from them. I won't beg your pardon because I'll never apoligize for standing in the way of tyranny.
Call this a knee-jerk reaction on my part if you like. I'm not ashamed of it. The day that my passion dies is the day my ashes need scattering to the four winds, for it will be the last part of me, and I dare say the best part.
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Makou
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I'm trying to frame my response in a way that makes sense, and at 1AM, am failing spectacularly.
However, know that I am not blowing off cases of law enforcement, et. al., infringing on rights, I merely do not think that this exact incident is a case of someone's rights being violated. I may be wrong, but the article is unclear about exactly what was public and private property, and what the motive behind the woman's removal was. That's important information for me before I can get fired up about what happened.
You're as welcome to your thoughts on the matter as I am, and I certainly do not mean to try and extinguish the flames of your passion (no pun intended -- and there are about five of them there). I'm certainly not going to stand in your way, in fact, I am usually right beside you when it comes to standing in tyranny's way.
We differ in many of our beliefs, and have been able to agree to disagree in the past. I hope we can do the same in this instance, and I hope that you know that if I am wrong about what has transpired, I will admit that fault and stand with you once again.
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Moshman
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Right on Phoenix. As far as I am concerned, a religion is a set of beleifs, so what I conclude is that if you beleive in Gay tolorence, that could be accepted as a religious beleif. So I guess they should be arrested along with that woman that was praying. What if she wasn't actually in the protest? What if she was praying about something else? You know what's funny? Schools are actually pressuring kids to attend their "acceptance" rallies. Protesting against Christians and to support gay rights, support evolution, support abortion. Pushing their agendas down the youth's throat. The parent's stand by with their thumb up their asses, or their parents agree with this notion themselves. "Good shall become evil and evil shall become good." Realize this Phoenix, this is inevidable. You can protest all you want, but no one will care, after all, being politcally correct is the most important thing to have in your character, and they start teaching this in grade school, talking about the "evil white man". This is how much I care about political correctness:  I got your political correctness for ya, right here... |
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« Last Edit: 2006-05-25, 06:18 by Little Washu »
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Moshman
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Of course, we can't let the issue go unrepremended. That's besides the point.
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Lopson
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I am now controlling your motor skills. Obey my will. Do not try to fight it, embrace the change. Repeat after me. |
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scalliano
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Yup, that's me
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So much for a liberal society.
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PSN ID: scalliano
The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
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Woodsman
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seems like if this was real o'riely would be all over it. Of course i havent been watching o'riely lately.
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Phoenix
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Woods: you can't expect a national-level pundit to get ahold of every story and have air time for it. It's the little ones like this that slip under the radar, that don't get air time or attention, that concern me because for every one you might read about, how many do you never know about?
Scalliano: If a "liberal" society was based on the dictionary definition of the word that states " Tending to give freely; generous", I would applaud and support it. My views on political liberalism are documented, I don't see a need to repeat them here. I don't want this thread to turn into a liberal vs conservative discussion, since that detracts from the point. Now a liberated society, on the other hand - that is one that is set free from oppression, where the rights of individual people are respected equally and where justice prevails - I fully support. What I'm concerned with is I am seeing liberties eroded and the people seem either asleep to it, blinded to it by propaganda and media spin, or else they are apathetic to it. People should never have to be afraid of their government. The government should be afraid of the people, and subject to their will. That is the correct order of things, and I'm seeing this order reverse at an ever increasing pace.
Washu: I posted my last post while you were posting yours prior, so somehow I missed reading it. I know what's been prophesied, and I know what is inevitable as a result. I feel it is my duty to warn people about what's going on around them in either case, regardless of what they believe, and regardless of whether or not they will listen. I figure the least I can do is say what others will not. What they make of that does not belong to me.
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« Last Edit: 2006-05-25, 22:55 by Phoenix »
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Phoenix
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And if that isn't bad enough, check out this cute little gem I ran across a few minutes ago:
Republican Mayor Michael Bloomberg thrust himself into the national immigration debate Wednesday, advocating a plan that would establish a DNA or fingerprint database to track and verify all legal U.S. workers....
...The mayor said DNA and fingerprint technology could be used to create a worker ID database that will "uniquely identify the person" applying for a job, ensuring that cards are not illegally transferred or forged.
Donna Lieberman, director of the New York Civil Liberties Union, said a DNA or fingerprint database "doesn't sound like the free society we think we're living in."
"It will inevitably be used not just by employers but by law enforcement, government agencies, schools and all over the private sector," she said. http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/05/24/D.../D8HQE6B80.htmlTrack everyone, identify everyone, your DNA, fingerprints, retinal images in a centralized computer database... Sounds pretty Orwellian to me, and this is the mayor of New York City proposing it.[/color]
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Thomas Mink
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We were never 'free'... unless you mean in the context of the topic heading. That, I can agree with. I'm pessimistic, so I expect it to get worse as the years go by... nothing really surprises me any more.
Also not really in the mood to rant a bit on the situation (2:20am and tired).. so, I'll just end there. But hey.. why not go all the way if you're going to do it? Pull some Demolition Man crap and plant a chip into everyone's wrists.
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Kajet
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I dunno, fingerprinting doesn't sound like some horrible plan, it seems secure without being invasive, however you just try to imbed something in my skin and i garuntee that you'll suffer blood loss.
granted I don't do much worthy of being watched for but, what i do and where i go is my own goddamn business and the second something like that becomes manditory here, i'm getting my ass out of the country.
as for the original topic, i'd say it's a bit too vauge... 30 feet from the box office could be in the theatre parking lot...
personally i think that if you're gonna protest something get as many people who are as pissed off as you THEN start planning something, the reason (i think) christians aren't getting similar protest rights is cause more often than not it's just one or two people on thier own doing something, creating less of an image of a large group of opinioned people and more of an image of just some crazy sporker.
of course i could be wrong on that.
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Moshman
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Sometimes, you need to give up freedoms, so the country can run smoothly. This does not bother me in anyway, as wire tapping does not bother me either. I mean, why are people concerned of their privacy? If they are not doing anything illegal, what is there to worry about?
I have to admit though that Christians are getting rather uptight about "The Da Vinci Code". I mean it's fiction. That's why in the library they have a section clearly marked "Fiction" For the slow: "Fic-shun"
I think it's a great work of fiction. Even the author himself admits that it's fiction.
Damn, what a bunch of pompus morons.
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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I mean, why are people concerned of their privacy? If they are not doing anything illegal, what is there to worry about? That's the oldest 'argument' for restriction of privacy and freedom. It has never, ever, sounded convincing to me and I seriously keep wondering why it has worked and still works for some people. If you always obey the laws, why worry about having a chip implanted in your body that tracks your every move? Why would we worry about having our thoughts read? You have nothing to hide or be ashamed of. If you are against these things, you must have something on your conscience. This is a slippery slope if ever there was one, and the oldest brainwashing-101 trick. I'm going out on a limb here, but maybe (some) Christians aren't worried much about privacy, because God is watching over them continuously anyway. Apart from the plain fact that I want or take no part of that, I don't see why something as corrupt(able) and flawed as a government should get that privilege. Those who do not see a problem with this are a wee bit too trusting in their authorities. |
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Moshman
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Tabun, I am not no gullible moron. I really don't care what the government finds out about me, because I don't care about the government. God. It like they literally have a little office where the police sit around and spy on people. They see some guy sniffing women's underwear, and they laugh their asses off, then they go write a report in the local newspaper saying so and so is a freak and should be thoroughly sacked.
Would you care to explain why it is not so convincing? Why should we care? Why is privacy so important?
People seem to care more about their rights, than what IS ACTUALLY right.
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« Last Edit: 2006-05-26, 17:08 by Little Washu »
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Lopson
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Still Going In Circles
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People seem to care more about their rights, than what IS ACTUALLY right. And this is why there are laws. What is actually right is common sense, there's no law saying "Don't steal", there's a law saying "If you steal, you'll get your ass kicked". Most laws are quite useless. They are just there to control us, to define us.
And Tab, if God was watching all of us constantly, He would be very tired. Don't you think He needs to take it easy sometimes too?  |
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Think of a totalitarian state in which everyone does what is 'right' (for now, never mind by whose standards). Everyone forced to abide the law, strictly. You're born with a handicap? Born just a little too 'stupid'? Had just a little too much bad luck and have been at the wrong place at the wrong time? Born gay? Got 'criminal-DNA' in your body? Your government will know. They will know what you buy and sell, using the information to work the economy 'for the right ends'. Governments and multinational organizations work hand in hand, knowing exactly what everyone is doing and how to manipulate the situation for a profit. A profit to be used for 'what is right', ofcourse. No worries.
I cannot make the obvious ridiculousness of the argument clear to those who do not acknowledge the value of privacy. It's similar the value of freedom, related to the ever present argument that you should be willing to give up your freedom bit by bit, because otherwise, the terrorists win. If you disagree, you must have something to hide, some freedom to abuse.
Freedom and privacy are closely related. Remove one or both from the equation of everyday life, and you lose what little there is left of the dream of democracy. That's fine, if 1984 is your thing.
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Phoenix
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Tabun: We agree with something out of the gate. 
I don't mind God knowing everything I think and do because of the nature of God. God is the ultimate power, nothing can surpass his might or misuse what he knows. God also loves me, and has my best interests in mind even when I don't. No matter what I do, I can be forgiven for it. It's up to me to put my heart into the right place and be penitent, but God sacrificed himself for me to make up for my failings, he loves me that much. That's why I don't mind God knowing what I do. That and I know He's not going to swoop down with the Angelic Thought Police and lock me up in Room 101 the minute I consider doing something that might be bad. I don't live in fear because I trust God. I would not tolerate anyone else having that kind of access to my mind because I do not trust them with it, especially anyone human.
Washu: A person should always be suspicious of government. The old phrase "If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear" has a counter-phrase: "everyone has something to hide." Everyone has their little secrets. Governments are composed of corrupt and corruptible people. If you believe governments should be able to spy on people, I suggest you live in a totalitarian country, like Communist China, or North Korea. Whoops. Forgot, they don't like Christians there. Now imagine if the government of this country should decide to ban religion someday. Christians would be forced to worship underground. Well, if they can spy on everything you say and do, you'll be caught, tortured, and forced to reject your religion, then they execute you anyway. Think it can't happen? It happened in Nazi Germany to 6 million Jews. It happened in Soviet Union. Never say "it won't happen here." It damned well could.
You also have to remember that people do not agree on what is right. For a Christian, what is right is the will of God, but look at how fractured and divided even Christianity is. Why? Because people of the same faith can't even agree on what they think the will of God is. Note that I said think. Now look over the whole world. Muslims think it's right to kill infidels. In some European countries, they think it's right to euthanize people who are severely ill. In China they think it's right to stamp out dissent. What actually is right is not the issue, it's what people perceive to be right because that's how they'll behave. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and you would be wise to understand that no matter how much you may try to safeguard against it, human nature has proven one thing above all else - men desire power, and once empowered they will use it to oppress. That is why privacy and liberty are so damned important. That is why limited government was the cornerstone of the foundation of this nation. They knew governments will oppress and control if given the chance, so they did their best to safeguard against it. Even that wasn't enough.
Why should privacy be important? Why should people clamor for their rights? Because that's what constitutes a free and open society. When someone of authority says "What are you doing, and why?", the people should have the ability to respond, "Why should I have to answer that question?" without fearing imprisonment for doing so. Laws should exist for the purpose of securing people's rights, not to allow governments to bully the public into submission. That is tyranny.
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« Last Edit: 2006-05-26, 20:18 by Phoenix »
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