And reading the rest of the wikipedia entry muddies the water a bit, does it not? That's why it's controversial. I'm drawing comparisons and reminding people what real torture involves to keep things in perspective. I can understand the fear of drowning, TM. It's one of the most natural fears for an air breathing creature. If fear itself is going to be considered torture, then what can be done? Without fear - fear of penalty, fear of consequence, fear of death. The entire concept of consequence of action relies on fear. There can be no deterrence. Think about this. Fear of drowning keeps you from straying into hazardous waters, does it not? Fear of falling keeps people from jumping off cliffsides or climbing to unsafe heights normally, no? You cannot classify something as torture simply because one person has a stronger response to a condition than another. For that person it will be terrifying, yes, but not to everyone. Some people are terrified of even going out their front door. Life then should be classified as torture, should it not? I do not say any of this to belittle your reaction to water. I do understand what you mean. Just consider who it is you would be having sympathy for in this case. It's not your next door neighbor we're talking about, it's the person who would gut them with a dull knife "just because".
I am not one to advocate that the ends should justify the means, but I'm a realist. When you have a tougher nut, you get a bigger nutcracker. If making someone like KSM think for a few minutes that he's drowning makes him sing like a canary, it's certainly a lot more humane than what he did to Nick Berg, and if the intelligence leads to destroying Al Qaida, then there's some value to the process. I know that's drawing comparisons. That's the whole point. These people do not play by the rules, but it seems everyone wants to make sure they're treated as if they were naturalized citizens being beat up on by a tyrannical government, not captured terrorist masterminds who have no interest beyond murdering as many non-likeminded individuals as they can. That is where my primary complaint is. I think there's too much sympathy for the devil by the ACLU and certain members of congress. I read reports from Al Qaida's own people that they're losing, in disarray, and at the same time I'm hearing Nancy Pelosi and Harry Reid saying the war is lost!
Remember, I am a warrior myself. I fight battles, I know the cost of failure when you DO go to war, for whatever reason. I am quite hot about all this precisely because at the edge of defeating these bastards people are crawling over themselves to protect them. That's what has me peeved more than anything else. If you want to stop barbarism, kill the barbarians, and make them understand their behavior will not be tolerated. They don't understand anything else right now. Maybe after they learn that lesson they'll be ready for the next, but you have to start with the basics. Stop them first, then start the dialogue. It cannot work the other way around.
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