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Author Topic: Return to the Cistern  (Read 62175 times)
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Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #20 on: 2009-09-16, 05:37 »

That looks downright amazing. A shame you lost study time over it though.. but I know how it can be once you're in the groove. With how much trouble I'm having with my boxy version of the same area, seeing this just leaves me speechless. The ceilings you come up with are beautiful. I'm jealous. Slipgate - Smile
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Tabun
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« Reply #21 on: 2009-09-16, 14:45 »

Thanks.

By the way, I've found that just toying around in radiant doesn't work well for this kind of map/ceiling. Here's how this became easy and fun for me:

1. First, find some pictures of architecture that you want to emulate. No need for anything spectacular, but it really helps to browse through google images for words like "medieval ceiling" or "support column" or the like. I save pictures that I like to a reference directory and look at it a few time before deciding on what to make.

2. After selecting the look/general shape of the bit I'm going to make next, I make (very rough) sketches -- just real pencil on paper. Some may not have suspected this, but I'm actually very bad at doing real drawings (they're messy and it takes many tries to get lines to come out right). But the point is to get a rough idea of how the bit looks. I usually do two angles to make sure I understand what I'm picturing. That way, you know that you're going to make something that can really exist in 3D. :]

3. Next step is not much different, but I make same additional sketches or add some lines to previously made sketches, while thinking out the brushwork. It's usually not too hard to decide what needs to be done with curve patches or brushes. It may take some time to figure out what details to make with brushes, or use textures for them.

4. After all that, I do the real work. Sometimes I test out some of the thought out shapes first, but usually having worked it out before helped to smooth out the process. I usually use placeholder textures that show at least the right kind of contrast and texture detail to let you see how the shapes work.
Planning how rooms interconnect without breaking up the shape of ceilings is difficult, and you can see that I'm not entirely good at dealing with that kind of thing. But it helps if you can accept moving entire rooms around to make the brushes within other rooms work.. Slipgate - Smile

5. Not a really the fifth step, but usually mixed in during the fourth: I make my own textures. I use cgtextures.com, which is an amazing repository -- very much worth an account. They have tiling textures aswell, so that should help you if you're not too keen on doing a lot of photoshopping. Pretty much all textures in tabq1dm5 are based off of cgtextures material.
By the way, if you need anything edited for a specific idea, don't hesitate to ask - I may even have something lying around that could help you out. The biggest obstacle to devoting time to making nice architecture is not having good textures to make it all worth the effort.

By the way, I've been meaning to link you up with this:

I found that the older version was a bit too bright for my map. Looks like that goes for yours aswell, so this one may look better.

By the way 2, what door texture are you using? I'm considering making a fresh door texture to match the look of my map. Not quite sure how much I want it to match the original Quake door.. would be hard to pull off and still be consistent with the quality of the surrounding textures..
« Last Edit: 2009-09-16, 15:12 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #22 on: 2009-09-16, 17:44 »

Very nice vault usage there.  I'm definitely looking forward to seeing it properly lit.
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« Reply #23 on: 2009-09-16, 22:23 »

I'm really looking forward to the completed product after that last picture.
Qualms over lost study time?  Pfft.  You're doing community service!
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Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #24 on: 2009-09-16, 22:40 »

The brighter button actually didn't look to bad to me, but yea.. the darker one looks better.

The door texture I'm using is, uhhh.. door04_1.. from the Quake Retexturing Project. I'm also using door02_1 for the sides you see when it opens. I was reluctant to use any textures from there, but I figured that since I had a Quakey button, I may as well have a Quakey door too.

I'll keep doing sketches in mind if I plan to ever create a map after this one. Highly doubtful, but you never know.

That said, I think my version of the map is just about done (guess 'done' is a loosely used term here). Only have a couple lights to add in various places.
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Tabun
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« Reply #25 on: 2009-09-18, 02:25 »

Found some time to work on the lower room again. Still not done, but getting there now. Decided on and executed a different take on the powerup area. Not that this room looked much like original, anyway.

http://www.tabun.nl/tmp/gen/tabq1dm5_pre08.jpg
(pretty big set of screenshots, but I am rather proud of the area now.. ;])

Still need to fix some sparklies here and there. I'm not happy at all with the water surface (though the fog looks really nice and moody). If anyone has a good murky water shader, please let me know! Lighting is still just randomly thrown in, though it gives a better idea of the place, now. R_speeds are surprisingly low, still, so I may be able to add some nice details later.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #26 on: 2009-09-20, 22:21 »

Nice indeed.  Keep it up!
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Tabun
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« Reply #27 on: 2009-09-24, 00:56 »

Thanks, will do. :]

Small update - not even time for placeholder lighting:
tabq1dm5_pre11.jpg

Just some WIP shots of the water exit area and surroundings. Curved stairway was a bitch to make. Painstaking work and took quite a bit of planning to get it right. I'm happy with it now, though. Water exit stairs and the cementy area surrounding it will probably be heavily reworked, not happy with that at all yet.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #28 on: 2009-09-24, 01:51 »

The curvature on the stairs is nice, and I like the gothic look on the doorways.  I agree on the water area.  It feels cluttered and out of place.  Maybe it should be more of a weathered natural rock instead?
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Tabun
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« Reply #29 on: 2009-09-26, 23:16 »

Could try some mossy/weathered rocks there, but it would take some work to make it look natural. I've got a normal set of stairs in there now. That looks better than the fancy stuff I had before, but still not right. Problem is that r_speeds are already up to 8k, so I don't think I can add too much detail anymore. :/

Anyway, here are some new WIP shots:

tabq1dm5_pre12.jpg

Still have one more basic room (MH/RL) to do, and then I can really start tweaking the details.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #30 on: 2009-09-27, 03:21 »

The screenshots look a tad dark overall, but that could just be my settings.  I've changed video drivers a few times and haven't adjusted my gamma.  If you were going for a Gothic look you nailed it.  This kind of reminds me of some of the architecture style in Unreal, and the lighting is superb.  The underwater shot was a nice touch.  I think the translucency of the water is good.  I'll love to give this a whirl when it's in a testable form.  Slipgate - Thumbs up!
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Tabun
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« Reply #31 on: 2009-09-27, 12:25 »

Yeah, it is dark. I'm running into the same kind of problem that I had with tabd2map01. In-game it all looks ok, but screenshots are dark as hell. I think I'll try to get my Quake 3 a lot darker, so that I'll automatically make things brighter..

I may also have to chuck some of the fancy doorways, otherwise I'll never be able to add other details, and they really are serious polyhogs. But first, to make a texture for the big door. :}
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #32 on: 2009-09-27, 16:50 »

But... but... I like the doorways! *sniff* Slipgate - Sad
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« Reply #33 on: 2009-09-27, 17:23 »

Yeah looks abit dark but cept that it looks freaking awsome Slipgate - Smile
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« Reply #34 on: 2009-09-27, 23:51 »

Hehe, no worries Pho. I'm just removing the second set of arches from one of them. :]
At 8k max. r_speeds right now, and still have some detailling to do. And still one more room to add..
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« Reply #35 on: 2009-09-28, 08:22 »

I whouldnt worry that much about r_speeds most ppls got better computers nowdays Slipgate - Smile
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« Reply #36 on: 2009-09-28, 16:45 »

A lot of people pump the settings up on those computers, too.  Keeping the r_speeds sane allows for more computing power to be devoted to effects, etc.  Normal Q3 is no concern, but Gen can be quite harsh if all the settings are turned up and you want to keep a high frame rate.
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« Reply #37 on: 2009-09-28, 17:35 »

Well yeah of course, just meant that there are more room for higher r_speed nowdays than before Slipgate - Smile
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Tabun
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« Reply #38 on: 2009-10-01, 03:36 »

Here's some new screenshots to show that I'm still working at it:

tabq1dm5_pre13.jpg
tabq1dm5_pre14.jpg
tabq1dm5_pre15.jpg
tabq1dm5_pre16.jpg
tabq1dm5_pre17.jpg

Lighting is slowly getting there, and hopefully getting bright enough for everyone, too. All areas are done as far as basic shape goes, but I still have to rework some bits (like the water exit and some ceilings) and I want to do a shitload more detailing (better water lighting, broken wood, scattered tiles, etc). Still, I feel it's really starting to take shape. I might release a test version soon, too. Not sure if I want to do that before or after I'm happy with detailing..
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Thomas Mink
 

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« Reply #39 on: 2009-10-01, 07:50 »

Pretty nifty looking stuff going on there. Even if the lighting isn't finished yet.. I do love the mood that it gives. It certainly feels like Quake, only judging from those screenshots.
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