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Author Topic: Help, Making personal models for Generations  (Read 11715 times)
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Niveus
 

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« on: 2009-11-25, 21:05 »

I was wanting to make a couple new characters for Generations Arena.  There are only a few things I need to have/know to do this.

A) How do I set a character to a Generation?

B) Where can I find a model editor for cheap/free to use?

C) Not 100% necessary, but how do I have a customizable single skin, like what was done with Ranger?

D) Also, could I have the lighting-bolt and hammer symbols used in CTF for each team?
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Phoenix
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« Reply #1 on: 2009-11-26, 00:56 »

Setting a character to a generation requires creating an animation2.cfg file.  The reason for this is we're making new model actions, such as axe swings for Slipgaters, BFG and Pistol actions for Doom Warriors, etc.  The animation2.cfg file will list these animations and also has a keyword to assign that model to a specific Generation.  Here is a sample animation2.cfg used for Grunt so he can be a Strogg Trooper:

Code:
// animation2 config file

class strogg

// first frame, num frames, looping frames, frames per second

0 0 0 0 // Placeholder so Q3 doesn't crash

[/color]The class names are as follows:

earth
doom
slipgate
strogg
arena

Arena Gladiators use standard Q3 weapons and will never require additional animations in the .md3 model.  The other four Generations will all have unique poses.  If you know which Generation you're planning to use your model with I can provide the current list of actions.  This may change, but for the moment, Earth, Doom, and Slipgate's functions are in place for their animations.  I have not yet implemented Strogg Troopers, but I can pretty much guess at that.

As for making a player model, there are tools available, but modelers all have different preferences.  I can name a few tools you will need in addition to a model making program:

Npherno's md3 compiler - this is a must.  Once you export a .md3 from a program, there's cleanup work.  Npherno's allows you to edit texture paths, shift frames, and rebuild normals so the model lights properly.

Npherno's md3 viewer - comes with the compiler.  Not very user friendly, but it allows you to see what a model looks like.

The model editor itself I'd have to check on.  Gmax was available a while back, but there may be other tools. Tabun has a good tutorial posted on unwrapping texture coordinates in 3D Studio Max.

A colorizing skin is actually pretty easy for Generations.  I'll post on that in a bit.

The Lightning bolt and hammer symbols have been around since Quake 1.  You can use them at will, however if you use them from someone else's texture you'll have to ask their permission first.  I'd have to check our files to see if we have a version that's strictly ours.

Food time for me for now, I'll post more later.
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Niveus
 

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« Reply #2 on: 2009-11-26, 04:30 »

Thanks for what you've submitted.

As for the class, Eldar Guardians don't quite fit anywhere, so I was thinking of making them Arena class.

I might make another for each class, but I'd have to figure where they would belong.  Orks = Earth (more dakka) but that's all I got.  One at a time to start with.


OH! I forgot to ask how I would attach sounds to the model.  I would rather have custom grunts rather than silence.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #3 on: 2009-11-26, 04:34 »

Pain, death, falling, drowning, and jumping sounds work like any other player model for Q3.  We've not done anything custom there.
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Niveus
 

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« Reply #4 on: 2009-11-26, 19:21 »

Ah... and on that not I admit that I've never done this before.  But that's where the internet comes in!

I downloaded Gmax, and I'll get to work doing what an amateur like me can.  One last question though; how tall should I make the model?  I don't want a midget or a giant, just a space-elf (Lord of the Rings type elf)
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Tabun
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« Reply #5 on: 2009-11-26, 22:00 »

I'm not sure if you mean that you've never modelled/animated before, or just not for Quake 3. The following is written on the assumption that you're really a beginner, so ignore whatever you'd reply with a "Well D'uh!" to. ;]

I'd advise you to look into a few tutorials and other sources of information before you get started on anything serious -- there are a lot of pitfalls that would pretty much require a start from scratch.

On this site:
A big thread on Q3 modelling in general

A lot that deals with 3d studio max should go for gmax aswell. Sadly, all the polycount links in that thread are dead now.

Elsewhere:
This page and others.. very useful stuff, especially since it precisely describes a practical process of making a properly 'animateable' model for Q3 specifically
If you want to animate, you'll want either very good knowledge of working with bones and deformation, or character studio. I'm not sure the latter comes with gmax, and I am sure that the former should not be underestimated.

If you want my help on any specific problem while modelling, keep in mind that I work pretty much exclusively with 3d Studio max (4 to Slipgate - Cool, meshtools (working mostly with editable poly) and using the plugins/tools described in my modelling thread on this forum (the first link of this post). Those tools I know well enough to do what you're looking to do. It is unlikely that I will be able to help you with others (though Phoenix might).

As for model size, I suggest you load up/import an md3 from Quake 3 into max, and use that for reference. That's your safest bet. Remember that the bounding box of the player model does not change, regardless of how big your model is. It's best to make your model not too much larger (or smaller) than id's default Q3 models.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Niveus
 

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« Reply #6 on: 2009-11-27, 21:38 »

Thank you for your help, and I am quite new to modeling in general (one college-outsourced class in high school, but only for a semester and I only grasped map design).

I've downloaded a trial version of 3ds Max, and can now get started.  But I decided that instead of starting from scratch with my Eldar, I'll take Ranger's model and cannibalize him until he can act as Crash does for Doom.  The only thing I have a problem with this idea (noobiness aside) is what her name/title should be.

Also, a random thought in my head for my custom characters, would it be possible to give them custom weapons under the right circumstances (examples: using a sword instead of the gauntlet, and having the machinegun alone look different in their hands.).  And if i can, would you guys approve of it?
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Tabun
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« Reply #7 on: 2009-11-28, 01:42 »

You cannot do that. Weapon models are the same for all player models. You can change the gauntlet to a sword--say, in a personal, small package replacement--but you cannot do it discriminately.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Niveus
 

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« Reply #8 on: 2009-11-28, 03:06 »

Ah, I was just thinking of extending the player model in the animations where it would have the gauntlet equipped to look like a sword for melee weapons or custom pistols.  It would seem, however, that giving them shuriken catapults is right out.

But it doesn't matter much, like the Vadrigar would allow them to have such personalized equipment (despite that being the whole excuse for Generations. They would draw the line somewhere Slipgate - Tongue).
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Phoenix
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« Reply #9 on: 2009-11-28, 04:13 »

Quake 3 uses what are called "tags" to place specific model parts.  A tag is a special triangle that is used to position and orient another model.  Quake 3 uses the same set of gun models for every player model and positions them on the "tag_weapon" in that model.  Likewise, Generations gives different weapons based on what class you belong to, but each model in a specific class always has the same guns.  It is possible to replace the gauntlet model with some other weapon, but you'll see that weapon on every other player when they're using the gauntlet.  If you join a server that has "SV_PURE 1" you will not see the custom weapon model though.

Quake 2 had what were called "vweps".  What it stands for I'm not quite sure, but every player model used its own gun models from third-person.  In Quake 2 you could have a player model whose weapon was a sword or staff or whatever.  Animating the gun models to sync with the player model movements was a bitch though.  That's why Quake 3 switched over to using tags.  The gun model itself doesn't have to do anything.  It just follows along with the player's right hand or wherever the "tag_weapon" is in the player model.

Also, a few cautionary notes.  It is OK to use someone else's model to learn with, or to do custom stuff with on your own computer, but modifying it without their permission, or using parts of it and then distributing it as part of your own tends to be a no-no.  There's a fine line between what is referred to as "fair use" and what is considered piracy.  Taking a gun model from HALO, for example, and adapting it for use in Quake 3 is ok so long as you're doing this for your own private use.  Distributing it as a replacement weapon for Q3 without permission from Microsoft would be bad.  Taking a model from a game and tweaking it to do something unique in a mod for that same game, for example, giving Ranger axe swing animations (something we're working on) in Generations would fall within fair use.  The character and model are already present in the game and Generations requires Quake 3 to work, so it's not being used outside of Quake 3.  Sometimes the line is blurry, but the basic rule is, if someone else made it, don't distribute it and call it your own.  Ask permission before distribution, and if it's going to use someone else's stuff, it's better to ask before even starting so you don't waste time and effort if they turn you down.

Now don't let that scare you from using someone else's work as a basis to learn how to make your own stuff.  The best way to learn how to make a model and how models work is by studying existing models that do work.  Most game modders start by doing something like swapping a gun, or making a rocket fly faster or slower, etc.  The first project I did for Quake 2 involved replacing a rocket model.  That's a humble beginning compared to where Gen has gone and is still going, but everyone starts small.  The main thing is to not get discouraged.  If you're just starting out, learn your tools.  Follow some tutorials.  Get a feel for what modeling is and how it works before attempting your "dream" project.

Another thing to watch out for while working on a Q3 project is to keep your stuff in your own .pk3 files.  Do NOT modify the .pk3 files that ship with Quake 3!!!  The main reason is that if you go to play online and, say, pak0.pk3 in your baseq3 folder has been changed, you'll either get kicked off the server (sv_pure 1 will do this) or something might not work right and your game will get funky.  Best to put your stuff in your own folders and make your own .pk3 files.  .pk3 is just the Winzip .zip format renamed, so Winzip, Winrar, etc, can extract and build .pk3 files just fine.
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Niveus
 

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« Reply #10 on: 2009-11-29, 03:12 »

I guess I need to ask then, would taking miniatures from a tabletop war game and making player models for them be within fair-use?

If not, then I'll abandon that idea and focus on another model instead...  Once figure out exactly how to run the modeling program.  I figured out how to make and edit boxes but that's all of how close I am to success.
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Tabun
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« Reply #11 on: 2009-11-29, 06:30 »

I wouldn't worry too much about Games Workshop dashing in with a cease and desist. As long as you're not going to release your models as part of a big, public project, it's ok. There are even several 40k inspired custom player models made by the community, and they never got shot down.

Besides, as long as your model looks closer to a box than an eldar character, why worry? j/k ;]

Good luck!
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Phoenix
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« Reply #12 on: 2009-11-29, 18:00 »

I think you'd be pretty alright there.
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« Reply #13 on: 2009-12-02, 04:59 »

I wouldn't worry too much about Games Workshop dashing in with a cease and desist.

I don't know... Games Workshop isn't exactly known to be kind to their fanbase. Slipgate - Sad
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Niveus
 

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« Reply #14 on: 2009-12-09, 01:15 »

Ok, I've borrowed a book from the local library and following it to learn how to use MilkShape, which is designed specifically for games like Q3, and can even export Q3 md3's and make a Q3A command file (whatever that is XP)

Question though.  I've taken the .tga files for Crash and made my own skin, but I don't know how to make the .skin files, or what program I might need to edit them.  Is it as simple as just (copying and) renaming the .skin files?



Also (off topic) how similar is Doom plasma to Arena plasma?  And is there any hope for a "Clan Arena" gamtype?
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Phoenix
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« Reply #15 on: 2009-12-09, 19:00 »

I've not had very good luck with Milkshape3D in the past, so I can't help much with editing in that program.  I couldn't get it to export a simple projectile model without it wanting to generate a "command" file.  Q3 doesn't use any kind of "command" file for models.  What you see in any player model's folder is all that's used.

The .skin files are just text files that tell what texture is applied to which object in the md3.  You can edit them with any text editor (notepad, etc).  You can't just copy and paste because you'll have to change the texture paths to match your model's folder name.  Let's look at Crash's upper_default.skin file:


Code:
u_arms,models/players/crash/crash.tga
u_chest,models/players/crash/crash_t.tga
tag_head,
tag_weapon,
tag_torso,

The first two lines concern the objects in the .md3, and what textures they should load.  The object names are important.  In the .md3 file, any objects must have a name.  In Crash's case, there are two named objects:  u_arms, and u_chest.  You'll see that they use different textures for each one.  These object names must match the object names in your model or Quake 3 will not render a texture on the model.  In addition, the texture paths must be included in the .skin file as shown above.  Q3 will usually complain if it can't load a texture and it will tell you what it tried to load.  If your model has no texture, check the console for an error.  If there's no error, check to make sure your object names are correct.

A very, very useful tool for making sure your objects are properly named is Npherno's md3 compiler.  A lot of the program was never completed, but the important parts were, and it's almost impossible to make an md3 without it.  It allows you to rebuild normals (very important for your model to light properly), change object names, specify texture paths (important for item models, weapons, etc - player models leave this blank), add or delete objects from a model, and rearrange model frames.  If you don't have it, get it.  If you can't find it, let me know and I'll get you a copy.

Below the textures in the .skin file are the tags listed in the model.  Tags are used to position various objects.  In this case, there are three tags, listed in order.  I can't find anything specific in the game code that reads the tags from the .skin file, but I'd stick with the format Id's used just to be safe.  Tags can be a little bit confusing at first, but they're actually fairly simple.  Every player model has three separate model files:

lower.md3
upper.md3
head.md3

lower.md3 is the legs.  In this file, there is a tag_torso.
upper.md3 is the torso and arms.  In this file, there is a tag_torso, tag_head, and a tag_weapon.
head.md3 is the head.  In this file there is a tag_head.

Every model has an origin point:  0,0,0.  The hierarchy is like this:

The origin of the player's current weapon positions on tag_weapon in the upper.md3 file.
The origin of head.md3 positions on tag_head in the upper.md3 file.
The origin of upper.md3 positions on tag_torso in the lower.md3 file.

The tag_head in head.md3 is not used by the game code.
The tag_torso in the upper.md3 is not used by the game code.

The reason tag_head and tag_torso exist in the head and upper models is simply a result of the export process.  It also makes positioning tweaks easier if you have to edit the model after splitting it up.

You will notice additional model files, such as upper_1.md3 and upper_2.md3.  These are LOD or Level Of Detail models.  They're versions of the upper.md3 model that have fewer polygons used for rendering from farther away, or with lower detail settings.  You can just copy your own upper.md3 and rename it upper_1.md3 and upper_2.md3 if you're testing your model without any LOD versions ready.  Same for the lower.md3 and head.md3.  LOD models aren't as important now in Q3 as they were when it was first released, so it's up to you if you want to make LOD versions of your model or not.

=====================

The Doom plasma rifle is different from the Q3 plasma rifle in a few ways.  First, it fires at a much faster rate, but the projectiles fly at slightly less than half the speed of Q3's plasma.  Second, the Doom projectiles have a bounding box.  That is, they have length, width, and height while flying through the air.  So long as the edge of this bounding box touches the player's bounding box, the Doom plasma scores a hit.  You do not have to be as accurate with Doom plasma to inflict damage.  The Q3 plasma does not have a bounding box.  The exact position of the projectile must touch somewhere in the player's bounding box to score a hit.  One other difference is that the Q3 plasma does some slight splash damage, like a rocket, whereas the Doom plasma does not.  Skilled players can "plasma-climb" walls using the Q3 plasma gun.  This cannot be done with Doom's weapon.  As for use, Doom's weapon is more useful at closer ranges and in tighter areas.  Long hallways without any side exits can be saturated with plasma to good effect.  Plasma can be sprayed to saturate an area to make it hard to avoid, or it can be used to pin a player in a corner.  The Q3 weapon relies more on accurate aiming.  It's not as effective at boxing someone in at close range, but it is much more precise and the faster projectiles make it more effective for long range attacks.  Five direct hits from either gun will result in a kill on an unarmored player with 100 health.

A Clan Arena game type is very possible, and there's a good possibility that it will be part of 1.0's release.
  Doom - Thumbs Up!
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« Reply #16 on: 2009-12-10, 05:12 »

[...] 1.0's release.Doom - Thumbs Up!

Either stop teasing or open up beta testing! Slipgate - Tongue
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Phoenix
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« Reply #17 on: 2009-12-11, 20:56 »

Awk, was not a tease this time!  Was just answering question.  Tease videos already made.  Slipgate - Tongue
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« Reply #18 on: 2009-12-12, 19:01 »

A Clan Arena game type is very possible, and there's a good possibility that it will be part of 1.0's release.  Doom - Thumbs Up!

That's been in q3au for a while (with ra3 map support).  I haven't looked at the q3au code in a long while, but I could provide the source for you if it would increase the likelihood of CA making it in.
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« Reply #19 on: 2009-12-12, 21:55 »

Wouldn't mind one bit.  Doom - Thumbs Up!
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