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~Va^^pyrA~
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CONSOLES are for pussies.  I will let that comment slide because you were obviously heated when you posted that. Needless to say, I disagree. I disagree with your disagreement!  |
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J3E125
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The reasons that the PC doesn't sell anymore is because of the number pirated copies of games are downloaded per year. I read in an article somewhere that the copies sold to illegal downloads of Crysis 1 was 1 TO 9.
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~Va^^pyrA~
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Piracy is little more than a scapegoat for lazy corporations. It doesn't matter if it's music, movies, or video games. Pirates were never and probably will never be customers. Companies need to stop wasting money on trying to prevent the inevitable through copyright protections. It only hinders real, paying customers from fully enjoying their products.
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fourier
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For D3 and RoE, I almost entirely use SG and MG, and I guess grenades. I only use other weapons when my ammo is getting somewhat low on the other stuff (which is basically never in D3, but more often in RoE). Just played through both again about a month ago. I don't play nightmare, since I don't like the deteriorating health (why didn't they have a mode with the increased damage but without dropping health?).
The only hard part throughout the entire game is I think in RoE. You go down an elevator and an Arch Vile spawns along with 3 (maybe 2) hell knights in a cramped area around the elevator shaft. That's the only place I've actually died (blew myself up shooting the damned things -- pun!). Err wait it's gotta be D3 because I think I remember having the soul cube and using it on the archvile.
D3 is pretty easy in veteran mode when really the only people I take damage from are the zguards or commandos (much better at dealing with them without taking damage this last time around) and occasionally a revenant.
Personally, I like the cramped D3 for single player atmosphere. It would be crappy for multiplayer. I only wish there were more monsters and a harder difficulty without the degenerating health (i guess it's enough to mod if I cared to do it).
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Phoenix
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Pirates were never and probably will never be customers. I've maintained this from the start. Companies look at pirated copies as "lost sales". The logic is typical corporate backwards thinking. It's not a lost anything because you didn't sell it to begin with, and with someone that is hell bent on pirating it's a "will never buy". They need to factor out the pirates and deal with reality instead of playing stupid games with the sales numbers.
Then there's individuals like myself who don't have $60 to throw down toward every new game that comes around. I'm going to wait until something hits about $20 to buy a copy. It means I buy late, which means I don't get included in the "how many bazillions were we supposed to make on this but didn't?" calculation because, while I am buying the game, I'm not buying it during the time period that the corporate investors care about.For D3 and RoE, I almost entirely use SG and MG, and I guess grenades. I vary my weapons a lot. After I modded the plasma projectile velocity to match the original Doom projectile speed (not the gun's refire speed, I left that alone) I use it a lot. I found it's the most effective thing against Lost Souls and Revenant rockets since the plasma has a bounding box. This makes it easier to clip the Lost Souls and Revenant rockets while in flight. I found the best use for the chainsaw against the tentacle commandos. If you crouch right as they're getting ready to throw the tentacle you can duck the tentacle and chainsaw them in the nuts without taking any damage. I use the rocket launcher on the chaingunner commandos and the chaingun is very effective on the Mancubus at closer ranges. At long range I use rockets and plasma, like around the smasher in the Hell level. I also have a tendency to rush the Archviles as they spawn in and chainsaw them in the face. That one encounter in the elevator with the Archy and two Hell Knights is where I just BFG the sporkers. If I can't get in close with the saw on an Archy I'll give them 2+ BFG cells so they die in one shot. Finally... when you first come back from fighting the Guardian in Hell, I get the chainsaw from the chainsaw zombie first, then I go into the hallway where all the ticks show up. The chainsaw is a godsend with those things. Crouch down, get near corner, run saw, let them suicide on your saw blade. It's taking advantage of bad AI, but hey. Id can make the little sporkers climb up the walls and jump around the next time.
I've beaten Doom 3 on Nightmare and I can't say it's really that hard. You play with the Soulcube already in your possession, so as long as you keep killing monsters you can keep regenerating your health. You can also pick up health packs like normal. Getting hit without your health being buffed makes you die in one hit usually but overall it wasn't as difficult as I expected. RoE was a lot tougher on Nightmare since you don't get health at all from the Artifact and have to rely strictly on health stations and packs. |
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Gnam
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I don't know if it's entirely true that people who pirate would never buy the product legitimately. Yes, in many cases, with many products, people pirate just cause they can. Movies in particular are like disposable entertainment; you might watch something that's in front of you (i.e. on tv, or on torrent) just because you're bored and it's there. However, you probably didn't bother to see that movie in theaters and wouldn't care to own it on DVD. The licensors are probably losing some money on DVD sales to Netflix, but it's not like everyone who pirates would have been a real customer.
However, when it comes to other products, like creative software, things are different. If you're someone interested in learning music production, graphic design, or video editing, you would probably save up the money to legitimately buy stuff like Fruity Loops, Ableton, or Adobe CS eventually, because it's your passion. However, if it's available on torrent, why bother? Sure, established businesses will buy, and parents will buy their kids student discount software for college, but the developers are probably missing out on 75% to 90% of their sales to everyone else.
As for PC games, I believe the shriveling of the industry is mainly due to the fact that today's gamers are too casual to care. A merely entry level gaming rig will cost at least 2-3 times the price of an Xbox 360 or PS3, because console developers are willing to lose money on console sales in order to rake it in on software and licensing profits. The selection of PC exclusive titles is a relatively small niche, many of the most popular games are console exclusive, and extremely few PC games allow for splitscreen or other multiplayer ability on the same rig. Moreover, Macs are becoming increasingly more popular than PC's for home/office use (thanks Vista), so the odds that someone will simply have a PC already sitting around the house which they can upgrade for gaming are increasingly low. Overall the immense cost increase over consoles, paired with the severe tradeoff in game selection/performance/features, is not worthwhile to your average gamer. Basically unless you're dieing to play Starcraft 2, or old PC games, there's little reason to own a gaming PC.
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« Last Edit: 2012-06-08, 14:24 by Gnam »
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Thomas Mink
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A merely entry level gaming rig will cost at least 2-3 times the price of an Xbox 360 or PS3, because console developers are willing to lose money on console sales in order to rake it in on software and licensing profits. Say what you will, but I haven't really upgraded my PC in about 5 or 6 years and I can still play all of the new games that are being released.. and even at the time when I bought the parts, the hardware wasn't the 'best' available. EDIT: Then again, the Xbox 360 and PS3 (and Wii) are about just as old or even older.. hiyoooo Makes me wonder what people actually consider a 'decent' gaming rig if my ancient machine can run it. ...As for piracy. It's just a lazy excuse. All it ever was.. all it ever will be. I just find it funny when I try to install Fallout 3 and it tells me to insert the 'real' copy instead of a pirated version...... despite the fact it IS a real copy. Didn't like the game to begin with (yea, talk about a waste of money..) and just wanted to give it a second chance with a more open mind, but eh.. guess I don't have to.  |
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« Last Edit: 2012-06-08, 17:17 by Thomas Mink »
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ReBoOt
Mean ol Swede
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Hmm this thread seems to get more and more derailed, now into piracy?  And since me and my mates quite often have this discussion i just can't leave this one alone! Anyways piracy isnt like something new, back in the ol days games like doom or whatever were pirated, thought on those days it was more like "sharing" since quite many of us didnt have this thing called internet yet or sat on ol 56k modem or worse In sweden we even have a law which permitts me to make a copy and give it to my friend (which is even more stupid cuz we got a new law making it illegal to bybass copy protected media, duh!) Thing is since ppls got better and faster internet access something changed, suddenly downloading games, movies were down from days to hours, even minutes which created a new type of demand, like duh im bored..hmm this movie looks cool "press the download button" then you have it. The movie industry/music still try to deliver their shit on plastic disc which costs quite alot but it's understandable they make alot of moneys selling you that plastic disc with their content, and the general "greediness" prevents them to distrubute their stuff digitaly. (thought regarding games we are starting to get quite alot of games distrubuted digitally, with steam, ea games, blizzard and hey i buy all my pc games digitally if i can!) So if ppls dont pay for your stuff what do you do? Lets sue them! Make new laws! shut down their internet connections! hey let's even monitor everything they do on the internet so they won't do anything illegal! I dare to say that the "anonymous" internet soon will be history thanks to this. If the movie industry (for an example again) whould had adjusted and delivered their content digitaly and with a sane price we whould not have the problem with "piracy" (of course there will always be those induviduals who will never pay for anything) Spotify ( www.spotify.com) for an example regarding music is a step in the right direction were you pay a monthly fee. It's gonna be really hard to covince ppls to start paying up for something they got for free but having fair paying alternatives (and legal) should be in everyones interest. |
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Phoenix
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I would also add that people don't like paying for crap that sucks either. How many people plunked down $14 on a CD because they heard a song on the radio they liked, or a music video, only to find out the other 7-9 songs were utter rubbish? So along comes the internet and now people start sharing stuff amongst themselves. "Oh, I like this one. Nah, this one sucks. Oh this is cool. Hey, listen to this one, Joe!" Then the record companies look at the situation and panic. Thanks to technological advances, people are sharing what they like with each other and bypassing the corporate-controlled business model of putting a manufactured "star" in front of a camera (pick your popular genre) and pushing one song over and over and over to saturate exposure. What the internet did is put something in direct competition with their business model, that something being their own customers. It broke the monopoly hold they have on music entertainment, and so naturally their response is to try to squash it instead of adapting and coming up with a new business model. I'm not defending piracy here, I'm simply explaining what happened. The why is partly due to human nature - people like to share with their friends - and partly because of people getting fed up with being ripped off. What's fed this and turned it into the ugly beast it is today is that the companies holding the rights to the music refused to offer any kind of solution that addressed the lack of perceived value on the part of the customer and the ease of said customers bypassing the record companies and trading music amongst themselves. If they had developed a sane alternative sooner then a lot of this could have been avoided. Instead they got greedy and started suing people.
I would hardly say the PC is a dead platform for gaming. If one goes onto Steam and looks there's a huge library available. Games can and are ported back and forth, and not all ports suck. Plenty of games can be good on the PC that are decent on a console, it's just a matter of the devs not screwing up and getting lazy. PC hardware costs money, sure, but so do consoles. I'm still playing on a PC that's going on something like 7 years old for the core components, and I've been able to play some newer games just fine. I can do more than game on the PC. I use it for gathering news and information, ordering things online, communicating with friends over the net, etc. In addition, if one component fails I can replace it and continue onward. It's modular. A long while back I upgraded my video card because the old cards I were using were too slow for my needs. There's flexibility in a PC that consoles do not have. Now given the choice between paying to upgrade my PC and buying a next generation game console when they come out, the choice for me would be clear - upgrade the tool I use for just about everything and don't even bother with a console. I can't work those freaking weird-ass controllers anyway. My point is that not everyone has the same needs and not everyone games on consoles.
We've gone kind of off topic at this point, true, but it's a decent discussion and I'm kind of loathe to put the brakes on it since, in a sense, it's all rather relevant to id's re-releasing Doom 3.
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Makou
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Holy crap, this exploded into something completely unexpected!  I don't have a lot to add to the main lines of the discussion here, but there is one thing I'd like to address: Final DOOM was released for the PlayStation.
Final Doom for the Playstation was A Thing That Existed. I remember sending Ty Halderman a few e-mails asking for some tips for the later Plutonia Experiment levels, and he actually had to ask me which version I was playing. The PSX version was a total mess and he hates that it exists. I was playing the PC version, but he just needed to confirm because otherwise, he couldn't give me any meaningful help. The PSX port contains levels from the TNT Evilution and Plutonia Experiment episodes... and Master Levels for Doom II (WTF?). Most of the more difficult maps are omitted, and those that remain tend to have monsters removed. This may have been due to memory restrictions, but when you remove a Cyberdemon, I'm pretty sure you're just trying to make things easier. The level order is just weird, as well; Map 10 of Plutonia is Final Doom PSX's last map.  It's "Final Doom for Sissies or Those Who Hate PC Games." |
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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ReBoOt
Mean ol Swede
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Well i rember when i compared the XBOX version of doom 3 vs. PC..ehr..they even removed parts of the map for the xbox version |
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Makou
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I was unaware of that, but I was never able to play Doom 3. My PC at the time wouldn't run it, even though the hardware should have been up to the task, and I never picked it up later. Also, more Final Doom PSX goodness. Take a look at this. A lot of those sounds are so wrong, and Attack just seems like a weird level to use as Map 01. As a stand-alone level, giving you every weapon but the chainsaw and BFG is fine. As the first map of a campaign, that just seems like a bad idea. |
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Tabun
Pixel Procrastinator
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Elite (3k+)
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Oh my. Never mind the sound effects ... Doom without its music .. that's just lame. :]
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| Tabun |
?Morituri Nolumus Mori? |
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Makou
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The music is there, it's just very quiet and buried behind the awful sound effects.  |
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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scalliano
Elite
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Yup, that's me
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Both ports were developed by the same team, so ... Midway's sound effects are one of those elements that splits the fanbase - you've got the PC players who, for the most part, hate them with a passion, then you have the PSX Doomers, who, while being aware that they aren't the original sounds, tend to prefer them. I, for one, have never been a fan of MIDI files and really like the dark ambience that the Midway versions feature, though that said I was coming off the back of the 32X version, so anything would have been better As for making the game easier, that's a necessary concession on a console which (at the time) didn't have analogue controls. Doom64, on the other hand, was pretty challenging. |
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PSN ID: scalliano
The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
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J3E125
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My bad for a late post. Sorry for bringing up the piracy, didn't really expect a total derail. I agree with what everyone says, corporations use the piracy excuse to cancel ports, which sadly, the way of business. I can't work those freaking weird-ass controllers anyway.
 Haha the mighty Phoenix, attempting to master the "Weird-ass" joypad, Ok, catching up with the topic, Doom 64 was sweet, but PSX Final Doom was something that... should've not lived; I mean we already had Quake 2, which  Was an awesome port and surprisingly, managed to awe with PS1's flimsy ram of 1 MB So I was disappointed of Final Doom, but Doom 64 was an improvement, and the new "wunderwaffe" is 2nd to the BFG 9k |
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