Angst
Rabid Doomer
Team Member
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Posts: 1011
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Sniper ricochet is fun, aim for the feet and watch 'em go flying  Arena's shotty is the.. second-most powerful? It's close in there with the strogg ssg. it's not that the spread is larger, the spread is a roughly evenly-distributed cone, whereas the strogg ssg seems to be a tad tighter vertically. It's still an evil weapon, but the lightning gun and bfg are the most damage per second weapons arena has. Slipgate's nails... well, they were always fairly useless outside of mid to close range. They're even more of a decoy weapon than doom's plasma. Just fire off a cloud, switch to a better weapon (ie rl/lg), and close on your target while they're dodging. Outside of the rockets, grenades, and lightning, the slipgate weapons are pretty poor overall, but that's the way it was in quake. The lightning gun is downright painful, and those rockets are EVIL. Not to mention the massive amounts of ammo slipgaters can obtain rapidly. |
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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crazy.joe
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I shall continue to use Speedy Gonzales and his Sawwed-off, and chainsaw.
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Kain-Xavier
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I shall continue to use Speedy Gonzales and his Sawwed-off, and chainsaw. Amen to that.  |
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Dicion
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ya, like angst said, nails are for occupying your target whist you move in with your rocket launcher or LG...
Slipgate is the man on levels with a nice rocket/armor circuit to run... eg: the slimy place, or the edge, or any of those other levels where i can just keep running the same circuit and keep my armor full, rockets high, and health full, while covering a large portion of the map..
The best move in the world: knock em in the air with a rocket, and finish em off with a mid air shaft...
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Phoenix
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Of course, the tactic of "weapon camping" to get 5 rockets every 5 seconds has been eliminated from the upcoming version so it's going to be "run the ammo" instead of "run the guns" from here on out for ALL classes. More on that later.
This is actually the best part about Gen. There are so many different scenarios and the questions pop up about how to handle class A with Class B in situation C. Remember that Slipgaters are pretty much dead once they respawn and if they're out of rockets they tend to run away from you and toward weapons and armor, just like any other class. Railguns are great for a retreating Slipgater, and if you're up close and personal nothing beats the Doom rocket launcher. For Earth, I recommend a few mortar rounds to soften the armor since the concussion range is large, followed by two soon-to-be empty gatling guns point blank, or a single gat at medium range, IF you can sidestep the skippy rockets. Strogg's the one that has trouble with Slipgaters up close. The best weapon I've found so far if you're in close and the railgun's recharge time is a problem is a chaingun with plenty of lead in it and don't let off the trigger .
Nails fly exactly the same speed they did in Q1, and yes they tend to be a bit useless. Doom's plasma, however, is not. It's much easier to score a hit with and point blank you can saturate someone with enough to gib them before they can blink. Long range use the chaingun.
Vader: We've stated before that animations are 1.0 material. There are code reasons for this I'd rather not get into here. Be patient, it's on the way. 
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« Last Edit: 2003-11-05, 19:51 by Phoenix »
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Vadertime
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BULL! In the original Quake, the perforator was SUPER. Since the nails traveled in a perfect straight beam anybody could snipe monsters all the way across a map. The difference is, most id brand monsters before quake3 were very slow moving or moved in predictable patterns. They broke down into 2 types: shooters and stabbers. The shooters usually held their ground and kept shooting constantly while the stabbers charged forward in a zigzag pattern or even straight lines. Nothing in Arena moves like that anymore, they all put Michael Jackson to shame. You might want to compare the speeds of the nails again. The super nailgun and Mr. Thunderbolt were the only weapons that gave you a decent chance against shamblers 1 on 1. As for the shotguns, I might have trouble now because I'm using the blunderbuss pk3 from polycount. I don't know if that could change the pattern size or not, but it sure seems to. The strogg super shotgun always had a weird pattern even on Quake2. The spread was practicly none from top to bottom but from side to side it was huge. The resulting pellet pattern looked like a bar. This was very bad if you had a buddy beside you that might soak up half the shotpellets and die.
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ConfusedUs
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In quake1 SINGLE PLAYER the SNG was awesome
But it sucked in DM. Players move too fast and too predictably for it to be of use beyond close range. It's best used to spam a narrow hallway in DM.
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Tekhead
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or for that matter, bots  |
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Rubilacxe
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I love Strogg for their energy weapons. I believe the Q2 Railgun, Hyperblaster and BFG10k are some of the best weapons in the game. I could dominate matches back in the Q2 days simply armed with these, but they are quite hard to find. Strogg falls in the explosives department. When you're up against classes like Doom or Slipgate, they're rockets usually have a great advantage over yours. Earth and Arena have some power over yours as well.
I love Doom for their shotguns and speed. Through and through. Even the single barrel is badass. Just like in the old days. I played some Doom deathmatch in my youth and the shotguns were weapons to be feared! Doom falls in the fact that hes pretty easy to kill. A few clicks from the other class and hes down. Sure hes fast and can be reckless, but you gotta be careful.
Slipgate is all about the explosives, but I believe he falls in other departments, like shotguns. The nails have advantages over bullets and disadvantages over bullets.
Earth...I love for their uniqueness. In a game where many classes have simplistic weapons, you have a flame thrower which works in a way I've never seen in a 1st person shooter. A mortar launcher which is an awsome blend of Grenade Launcher and Rocket Launcher. And that Sniper Rifle is just a sight to behold. Plus his Gats are awsome as well. Its safe to say Earth excels in the bullets department. But his problem is, almost everything uses bullets. Also, he's fairly difficult to get good with. But not as hard as Strogg, in my opinion. Earth's weapons really don't have any downfalls...you just need to know how to use them.
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-JL
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
Team Member
Elite
Posts: 1011
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dualgats + doom = instagib
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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Tekhead
Elite
Posts: 1110
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The one major downfall about Arena is that he has no major trump card for a weapon (aside from the BFG - which is a major balance issue ATM). Earth has dual-gats and the armor for a sustained encounter, Doom has his very powerful shotguns which he usually has easy access to, Slipgaters have their RL which disorients as much as it damages and Strogg has amped-up Railgun, which takes out opponents even with light armor.
Arena performs best when he can take on opponents one at a time, where he can properly soften them up, gradually wearing them down and then delivering a fatal shot. 1v1 or small games are where he excells. Versus multiple people, his time to kill an individual target is limited, and he struggles, often dying between two people while he's trying to kill one.
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« Last Edit: 2003-11-06, 17:11 by Tekhead »
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
Team Member
Elite
Posts: 1011
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Now, while I'll admit the arena class isn't the most powerful anywhere, he also doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. Decent armor, he doesn't take too much damage, he's not horribly slow. And the arena weapons are fairly decent, a good shotgun, the machine-gun has a better damage rate than, oh, say doom's pistol. The rocketlauncher isn't the best, but it's got a decent radius and gets the job done, the plasmagun is evil if you know how to use it, the lightning gun hurts, a lot.. And the bfg, well, the bfg is the bfg..
Even though it's the least extreme class, the arena gladiators are still nothing to scoff at.
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« Last Edit: 2003-11-06, 21:07 by Angst »
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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ConfusedUs
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I love Strogg for their energy weapons. I believe the Q2 Railgun, Hyperblaster and BFG10k are some of the best weapons in the game. I could dominate matches back in the Q2 days simply armed with these, but they are quite hard to find. Strogg falls in the explosives department. When you're up against classes like Doom or Slipgate, they're rockets usually have a great advantage over yours. Earth and Arena have some power over yours as well. The secret to Strogg is to use his phyics to your advantage, as well as pinpoint accuracy with that railgun. Rail + Chain = Dead. The hyperblaster is actually one of the weaker plasmaguns in the game, barely coming out ahead of the Nails. The BFG10k is good for clearing a room though. I love Doom for their shotguns and speed. Through and through. Even the single barrel is badass. Just like in the old days. I played some Doom deathmatch in my youth and the shotguns were weapons to be feared! Doom falls in the fact that hes pretty easy to kill. A few clicks from the other class and hes down. Sure hes fast and can be reckless, but you gotta be careful. We're doing our best to stay true to the originals. And while Doom may die easily with low armor, currently neither his health or armor count down, and armor is easy to find. At 200/200 it takes 400 damage to kill him, and he's fast enough to get away when he gets low. A tanked Doomer is the hardest thing to kill in the entire game. We're changing Doom's armor for .99d to be back to the doom original absorbtion rates and stacking. Slipgate is all about the explosives, but I believe he falls in other departments, like shotguns. The nails have advantages over bullets and disadvantages over bullets. Slipgate is ALL about the rocket launcher and shaft. The grenade launcher is a portable minefield, and the shaft is the strongest lightning gun/chaingun class weapon in the game, but it's ammo is very limited. Everything else he has sucks in DM Earth...I love for their uniqueness. In a game where many classes have simplistic weapons, you have a flame thrower which works in a way I've never seen in a 1st person shooter. A mortar launcher which is an awsome blend of Grenade Launcher and Rocket Launcher. And that Sniper Rifle is just a sight to behold. Plus his Gats are awsome as well. Its safe to say Earth excels in the bullets department. But his problem is, almost everything uses bullets. Also, he's fairly difficult to get good with. But not as hard as Strogg, in my opinion. Earth's weapons really don't have any downfalls...you just need to know how to use them. This is the best description of the Earth class I've ever heard. I might steal this in the future. By: Angst
Now, while I'll admit the arena class isn't the most powerful anywhere, he also doesn't have any glaring weaknesses. Decent armor, he doesn't take too much damage, he's not horribly slow. And the arena weapons are fairly decent, a good shotgun, the machine-gun has a better damage rate than, oh, say doom's pistol. The rocketlauncher isn't the best, but it's got a decent radius and gets the job done, the plasmagun is evil if you know how to use it, the lightning gun hurts, a lot.. And the bfg, well, the bfg is the bfg..
Even though it's the least extreme class, the arena gladiators are still nothing to scoff at. Which is exactly how we wanted Arena to be, right in the middle. |
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Rubilacxe
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The secret to Strogg is to use his phyics to your advantage Could you elaborate on this? I'd love to be the Strogg (Quake 2) player I used to be back in 1998 This is the best description of the Earth class I've ever heard. I might steal this in the future. Why thank you I try. |
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-JL
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ConfusedUs
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Strogg is slow if you don't know how to use his strafe-jump. He also gets a boost to his jumps when going uphill (ramps, not stairs), and can doublejump up boxes.
All these function exactly as they did in q2.
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Phoenix
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Yes, Doom's armor stacking has been changed to the original Doom absorbtion rates. At present it's still yellow and red armor, as opposed to green and blue (which will change for 1.0) but you get the idea. We're not giving him 100 for yellow and 200 for red on pickup, however. Like Slipgate we cut those in half so that other classes can stand a chance. It's still 50 for yellow, up to 100 max (helmets can go over this) and 100 for red, up to 200 (max is 200). Yellow armor will NOT stack on top of red and won't replace it unless you're seriously low on red armor. This makes it harder for the Doomers to get to 200 armor and give him a tougher time on maps where only yellow armor is available.
On the upside, Doom's plasma and rocket projectiles have been corrected for their in-flight radius to original Doom levels (missed this in 99c somehow) so the plasma rifle is going to be MUCH more desireable a weapon. I've tested this and it feels right on to old-school. Plasma = fear again. If you're up close to a Doomer and you see the blue glow on his gun I'd advise running for it... IF you could outrun him that is.
As for the Q3 BFG being a balancing issue, we have a fix in the works and it will be cvared so server admins can use the old one if they wish, but defaulting to our new effect. Sorry, no spoilers on what we're doing. It may or may not make .99d, depending on time constraints.
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Kain-Xavier
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Perhaps some will disagree with me but... The Arena class's GL is excellent for warding off chasers, and it is also useful for taking out large groups in small areas if you're well armored. I think this is also why I love Earth's mortar. The only difference is that Earth's mortar also makes for a hell of an offensive weapon as it travels a much greater distance and at much faster speeds.  |
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« Last Edit: 2003-11-07, 23:56 by Kain-Xavier »
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Vadertime
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OK, what sort of connection speed does it take to hook up to a server and actually be able to play? Mine usually runs at 44000 bps and I'm using a chipset instead of a video card. I think my mug has garbage in it.
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ConfusedUs
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To Gen or Quake1?
In q1 you'd be fine.
In gen you'll be hurtin, not so much from the connection, but from the video card. Make sure you turn all video settings down or off and you should be ok. Reboot manages a steady 300 ping to the WHS Central server, and he's on a modem in Sweden.
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