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ConfusedUs
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http://www.congress.gov/cgi-bin/query/z?c108:S.89:Now I'm all for national security and all, but things have been getting out of hand. Many of the new laws just rub me the wrong way. And now there's this: A law that would require a mandatory 2-year service in the millitary or an 'equivalent' to be determined by the President, for both men and women. I understand why countries such as Israel have mandatory millitary service. They're pretty much at war all the time. But the US isn't (although that could change if Bush pisses off enough MORE countries), at least not yet. That things like this are even thought of, wether they pass or not, really just bothers me.
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Footman
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.....I all of a sudden want to leave this country...
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Phoenix
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I can see many directions for this, and none of them good. While a 2 year mandatory military term would certainly instill more discipline within young people and teach them how to fight if there should ever be a land invasion, even if they're in a civilian capacity later, it does beg some serious questions.
First, what need does the President forsee that prompted this? Is this just a response to the continued threat of terrorism, or is there something larger on the horizon that this is in preparation for?
Second, is this a stepping-stone to the draft?
Third, what are these "other purposes" mentioned in the bill that are not defined? That's very broad. If not for defense of country, or to attack another country, what is left? Quelling civil disobedience under martial law?
I am not sure which is the worse scenario, the idea that some kind of martial law might result from further 9/11'sh attacks, the idea of constant anti-terrorism operations around the world, or the thought of some much larger threat that's being quietly prepared for that nobody else is privy too?
Anyone who knows me knows that I'm very cautious when it comes to conspiracy theories, but I don't discount questionable actions either. Everything about this sends up warning flags. The signs of the times are everywhere. I wonder just what exactly this one is a sign of...
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
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Elite
  
Posts: 1011
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To provide for the common defense by requiring that all young persons in the United States, including women, perform a period of military service or a period of civilian service in furtherance of the national defense and homeland security, and for other purposes. That bothers me.. And I don't think you can pass it off as simple paranoia.. |
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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Woodsman
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on the plus side i might get to join the military after all! the navy turned me down for having bad hearing.
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dev/null
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HA! This would be a completely idiot move by the government (of course, what isn?t?). Right now, the military is filled with wide-eyed, wanna-be patriots that are willing to do anything for the chance to suck Uncle Sam?s cock. This style of ?discipline? is nothing more than blindly following orders without question, without purpose, without cause. The moment you begin to force military service is the moment you loose control of those very disciplines that make such tyranny so easy. Do you really think that a bunch of people who were forced to join are going to lay back and take the orders they?re given? Hell no, they?re going to be resistant and hard to deal with! I don?t think you want people like that among your ranks, with weapons and specialized training. It?s a recipe for disaster. There?s the incredibly shaky matter of how to actually do this as well. As we know from the admirable deserters of Vietnam, such things do not work too well.
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« Last Edit: 2003-12-02, 19:22 by dev/null »
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
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Elite
Posts: 1011
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Hey, nothing wrong with being a border-hopping wuss, just look at our last president! /sarcasm <_<
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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dna
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/me imagines dev/null being "inducted" into the army.  |
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Dicion
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HA! This would be a completely idiot move by the government (of course, what isn?t?). Right now, the military is filled with wide-eyed, wanna-be patriots that are willing to do anything for the chance to suck Uncle Sam?s cock. Why Thank you... You're enthiusasm and compliments about myself and others serving in the military during this time is very welcomed. The moment you begin to force military service is the moment you loose control of those very disciplines that make such tyranny so easy. Do you really think that a bunch of people who were forced to join are going to lay back and take the orders they?re given? Hell no, they?re going to be resistant and hard to deal with! I don?t think you want people like that among your ranks, with weapons and specialized training. It?s a recipe for disaster Now this, we (the active duty members) agree with. Someone said this today: "So if they do this? are they going to court marshall everyone that smokes pot?? [The way it's currently done] The Military justice courts would be full for YEARS.... If they did instill the mandatory service, the Quality and level of responsibility for the average military member would have to drop SIGNIFIGANTLY from what it is now... and the force's strength as a whole, while greater in numbers, would diminish in capability" -- SrA Richard J Thomas II OL-B 52 Communications Squadron 52nd Fighter Wing Spangdahlem AFB, Germany |
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« Last Edit: 2003-12-02, 22:01 by Dicion »
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dna
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If they did instill the mandatory service, the Quality and level of responsibility for the average military member would have to drop SIGNIFIGANTLY from what it is now... and the force's strength as a whole, while greater in numbers, would diminish in capability"
Well, that's the beauty of cannon fodder - you don't HAVE to train or equip them very well. All they need to do is stop a bullet from taking out one of the real soldiers that you actually spent money on. |
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Dicion
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ok ok... so yeha it would work for the army..
but none of the other services that actually require training...
and YES the marines DO recieve alot of training.. i hold them in higher regard then basic army grunts...
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dna
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ok ok... so yeha it would work for the army..
but none of the other services that actually require training...
You can always use another person to clean the head. Hey, Congress didn't say it would be mandatory glamorous service, just service. |
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McDeth
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This is what bothers me the most:
(2) in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.
(4) Such other grounds as the President may establish.
(7) Such other matters as the President determines necessary to carry out this Act.
(d) EXAMINATION; CLASSIFICATION- Every person subject to induction under this Act shall, before induction, be physically and mentally examined and shall be classified as to fitness to perform national service. The President may apply different classification standards for fitness for military service and fitness for civilian service.
© TRAINING CAPACITY- The President may postpone or suspend the induction of persons for military service under this Act as necessary to limit the number of persons receiving basic military training and education to the maximum number that can be adequately trained.
They give too much power to one man over the military. He may become a military leader rather than a social leader at this rate of this bill is passed.
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Beer? I'm down.
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dna
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... The president IS our military leader. That's part of his job.  |
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Phoenix
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Yes, that falls under the title "Commander in Chief". I think what he means is the potential for a military coup.
What concerns me isn't Bush getting all this power, he's already got it and that "Dumb Texan" has outmaneuvered his political opponents at every turn. He doesn't need a power grab. Any sitting president can invoke a few little known executive orders set up under the Carter administration, declare a "National State of Emergency" and it would basically BE a military dictatorship that could not be questioned by the Congress for a period of 6 months. All controls of territory, property, people, etc, would be placed under FEMA, answerable directly to the President. This was set up during the Cold War as an emergency measure should the US come under Soviet attack, but it's never been taken off the books. Bush could have used this to clamp down after 9/11 if that's what he wanted to do. To the anti-Bush crowd, well sure he still can, so we'll just have to wait and see on that. I remember the anti-Bill Clinton crowd being concerned about Clinton using that same set of orders to do the very same thing. Isn't paranoia grand? 
My concern is what happens when the NEXT President is in office if this were to pass. Hillary 2008, anyone...? 
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« Last Edit: 2003-12-03, 05:08 by Phoenix »
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Angst
Rabid Doomer
Team Member
Elite
Posts: 1011
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all I can say is, if Hillary ever comes up on the ballots, I'm voting AGAINST.
I don't have anything against women presidents, but I DO have issues with Hillary's agenda.
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"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
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ConfusedUs
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Yeah. Like the fact that she's a MORON!
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Lilazzkicker
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? TRAINING CAPACITY- The President may postpone or suspend the induction of persons for military service under this Act as necessary to limit the number of persons receiving basic military training and education to the maximum number that can be adequately trained. That worries me the most. We train you, you and you, the rest of you will learn in the field. A fine example will be to look at Vietnam.. |
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Woolie Wool
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This is what bothers me the most:
(2) in a civilian capacity that, as determined by the President, promotes the national defense, including national or community service and homeland security.
(4) Such other grounds as the President may establish.
(7) Such other matters as the President determines necessary to carry out this Act.
(d) EXAMINATION; CLASSIFICATION- Every person subject to induction under this Act shall, before induction, be physically and mentally examined and shall be classified as to fitness to perform national service. The President may apply different classification standards for fitness for military service and fitness for civilian service.
? TRAINING CAPACITY- The President may postpone or suspend the induction of persons for military service under this Act as necessary to limit the number of persons receiving basic military training and education to the maximum number that can be adequately trained.
They give too much power to one man over the military. He may become a military leader rather than a social leader at this rate of this bill is passed. The President is commander-in-chief of the military. If this law were enacted, these powers would be his with or without those magic words. |
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Thomas Mink
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I'll start out by saying that read NONE of the replies... I only read the topic title and Con's opening post.
Mandatory military service... sca-rooo that. I'm fine with supporting our troops; even though I might not support the choice that caused our troops to be in a certain location (Iraq), I will support our troops even though said decision was made.
There is no way in Hell they'd get me to join the military though. I'm mostly a pacifist when it comes to war type talk when brought up in serious conversations or situations. That's why I even resent the draft. Should it ever happen, and I get picked, I'll probably wind up in jail or something for my refusal to go to war. No one's going to force me into joining the military... I'd sooner die.
And besides... I have long hair, and I LIKE my hair. I will NOT get it buzzed off for something as stupid as fighting in a war.
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