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Woodsman
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You may want to keep in mind that the US economy has as of the last few monthes been creeping its way out of recession so dont write the united states out so soon.
Your damn right its bad for everyone. Id like to remind everyone that the P.R.C killed more people than hitler and stalin combined acording the history channels "the most" show under glorious chairman Mao. Granted Mao is long dead but i'm still not very cool with the chinese being a super power. Frankly i would rather have the soviets back.
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Devlar
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You may want to keep in mind that the US economy has as of the last few monthes been creeping its way out of recession so dont write the united states out so soon.
The Article was written in 1998 at the height of economic prosperity in the US
Frankly i would rather have the soviets back.
Considering I came from behind the Iron Curtan, I'll take my chances with the Chinese government, they aren't currently as hardcore as Mao or Stalin was, they are just a bunch of greedy old men who are doing everything in their ability to keep themselves in power. In between the US and the PRC, just like between the US and the USSR, it'll be human rights and the people who ultimately get screwed by both sides
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Phoenix
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China is a sleeping dragon that will awaken. When it does, the world will burn. Besides having nuclear capability, China also has the ability to arm over 200,000,000 people AT ONCE. Their standing army is not that big, but they could conscript enough of their own population to create such a large force and I daresay not even the United States military could stand against that kind of onslaught without resorting to nuclear weapons and mass slaughter. This is another reason the US must remain strong. As long as the US has superpower status and a large military it remains a deterent. I know this might be written off as "cold war thinking" but nobody in their right mind brings a knife to a gunfight. Once China is strong enough, and believes it has enough allies on board you WILL see war. The mindset of people in the Orient does not work like those in Europe or the West. They have a very fierce system of honor that has not been lost, even to a Communist governmental system. If anything it has made it more dangerous. If you want any more proof of that, look at their spies, and what lengths they are willing to go to to accomplish their mission. Remember the Kamikaze forces of the Japanese. Remember when several hundred Japanese soldiers commited mass suicide with handgrenades rather than suffer defeat to US forces in WWII. The Chinese also have this mindset of death and glory for honor's sake. They take it very seriously, even if the rest of the world does not. As the dragon sleeps, it dreams of conquest. Do not ever understimate the Chinese.
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Devlar
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China is a sleeping dragon that will awaken. When it does,
Once China is strong enough, and believes it has enough allies on board you WILL see war.
All of these things were said about the Soviets, and it's IF they do, and if the USSR has taught us anything its that the chances are very slim
I know this might be written off as "cold war thinking" but nobody in their right mind brings a knife to a gunfight.
It is, but I agree with you to a certain extent, I have nothing against the US remaining the most powerful country in the world, if it would stop throwing its weight around and acting in the personal interest of its politicians rather than in the total interest of the United States. The economic exploitation of the third world is not beneficial to the whole of the United States, it breeds enemies
They have a very fierce system of honor that has not been lost, even to a Communist governmental system.
AHAHAHAHA, sorry, the PRC adheres to the ideals of Communism as much as Stalin did, or as much as the United States adheres to Capitalism. Communism, Capitalism or any ideal economic system have little to nothing to do with anything in this conflict, this is over economic, political control and greed. Politicians fighting other politicians
The Chinese also have this mindset of death and glory for honor's sake.
For your sake I really hope you don't say that to a Chinese person, that's like calling a Polish person Russian, its liable to get you punched in the face from nationalism. Chinese and Japanese mentality is fields away from one another since their cultures were so dramatically differently structured through their historical development, plus they don't identify themselves as the same race of people.
Do not ever understimate the Chinese.
I'm not, but fighting force with force will only lead to another cold war, when you could easily ruputre the society from the inside out socially as you did with the soviet union. The problem is that the boys at the pentagon know this, and they know that they're budgets are at risk if they follow such a idea and succeede
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Devlar
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Even we can find common ground sometimes  |
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Woodsman
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i dont think any army in the history of the world could arm 200,000,000 men even with the vast abundance of soviet surplus rifles floating around. Any war with china would be nuclear plain and simple because there would be no other way to fight them if it came down to a full on war. In that event everybody dies plain and simple but the Chinese know that just like the soviets did and i dont think china's current leadership is crazy enough to pull that.
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Hedhunta
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err.. the chinese have never fought for the honor like the japanese do.. they dont have the japanese fuedal code of bushido, etc ..
they just send human waves, the chinese arent aloud to think independantly at all, why do you think their pilots suck so bad besides the fact they get no flight time.. theyre just robots, the only thing the chinese will ever have are nukes, and numbers.. never more. i dont think we really have a problem w/ being ABLE to kill 1000's of men.. look at the miniguns in blackhawk down.. etc, they spit out 1000s of rounds per minute.. the problem is would we actually KILL that many people.. even if they were all attacking..
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Woodsman
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The chinese dont have the same system of military discipline that the japanese do but they have thier own variations. Really any military worth speaking of does.
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games keeper
Elite
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why ccant the world have more belgians .
the only thing we wanna do is defend our own ground , and not other countries .
the reason we dont fight ( not conserning we dont have enough manpower and weapons )
is that to many people have fought over belgium. we have been at war almost al the time and we know how wurse it can get .
if everebody would only defend there own ground, and not attack and not go outside there territory , we would only have to keep ourselves ready from an attack of space .
:unsure: I can sense them coming, it wont belong anymore :unsure:
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dna
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Just like Poland.
So you say that other countries, like oh I don't know, America, don't know how bad war is? Care to count the body bags that each country has produced?
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Devlar
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The chinese dont have the same system of military discipline that the japanese do but they have thier own variations. Really any military worth speaking of does.
Except Japan doesn't exactly have much of their own military due to the occupation
Just like Poland.
Poland is in Iraq, but they have always been pro-US
So you say that other countries, like oh I don't know, America, don't know how bad war is?
The public does, but the politicians know they don't have to risk dying if they start a war, so they needlessly send the children of the nation off to fight
if everebody would only defend there own ground, and not attack and not go outside there territory , we would only have to keep ourselves ready from an attack of space .
This is about as bad of an idea as anything I've heard. Sovereignty in the international system is exactly what brings you Saddam Hussein, the monarchs of Kuwait and Saudi Arabia, since non-intervention is the key. They want to put state power above human rights which is only good for politicians!
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« Last Edit: 2003-12-19, 01:39 by Devlar »
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dna
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Just like Poland.
Poland is in Iraq, but they have always been pro-US
You missed it. |
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Devlar
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What the fact that everyone has been fighting over them?
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Woodsman
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Japan does have its own military and a rather well funded one too but they call it a "self defense force"
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Devlar
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Its not autonomous though
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Lilazzkicker
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The public does, but the politicians know they don't have to risk dying if they start a war, so they needlessly send the children of the nation off to fight You say this as if our own military personal were forced to join, they made the choice to join, they know there are risks doing so. They signed the papers, plain and simple. |
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Lilazzkicker
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Quoted in IRC by LeeMon So I'm tired of hearing about the ##### soldiers. They're doing their job. The debate is over whether politicians should have sent them there. |
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Devlar
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You say this as if our own military personal were forced to join, they made the choice to join, they know there are risks doing so.
Until the military euphemism known as the "ghetto draft" ceases to exist, I cannot agree with you. Quite a few people enter the US military because they have no other choice
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« Last Edit: 2003-12-19, 05:24 by Devlar »
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Phoenix
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Many may feel they have no choice, but you always have a choice. Do, or do not. In the end, that is what it amounts to, whatever the factors are that influence a decision. There are always alternatives, if one chooses to seek them.
Sovereignty is nothing more than people within a given region controlling their own lives as opposed to people in other lands having large amounts of influence on how they live. As for autonomy and sovereignty being good or bad, tell me then, if sovereignty is to blame for the ills of the world, what system of governance would you then prefer that would guarantee human rights to not be infringed? Who do you trust to rule over mankind on a mass scale? Many have tried lofty ideals in the past, and it has always led to ruin. Why should any new system be any different? Look at the world today. Look at the violence and strife. It is not restricted to regions where the US has power and influence. Men have always killed one another for whatever reasons, and do not need any good or explainable reason to do so. What naivity would lead anyone to believe that today of all days, when means to kill have advanced more than ancient man could have dreamed, should differ?
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I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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