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Devlar
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I thought I'd throw this in here cause maybe it would get more replies
I want to know something, I'd like each and every one of you to take the the 5 generations (Earth, Doom, Slipgate, Strogg, Arena) and tell me what constintues a themed map in that area in the terms of architectures (not texturing) so in other words I want each and every one of you to create a list of what best describes the feeling of each one of the generations levels.
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dev/null
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Earth: Brick and mortar, slanted roofs and narrow passages Doom: Flat, wide open landscapes and labyrinth-like rooms Slipgate: Tight, dark, and broken. Strogg: Vertical maps  Arena: Smooth, clean, jump pads and space floaters |
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pepe
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earth: the typical little austrian village with a fauntain in the square and som nice snipe spots (i didnt play much wolf3d so i just fantasise ) maybe some underground bunker complex or a refueling station for tanks or submarines doom: rather open areas with a lot of routes inbetween and lots of pillars and piles of skulls slippgater: kneedeep water and ruins old castles or temples strogg: atriums with ledges and elevators or factorys arena: flat maps with an abundance of acceleratorpads and jumppads edit: doh reread devlars message and spotted it said architecture  so i tried to answer the question that he asked instead this time around |
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« Last Edit: 2003-02-11, 18:17 by pepe »
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Daedalus
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Wolf (joke): 0 Architecture, 0 Y-Axis, Lots of blue bricks Wolf (serious): Propaganda (both Brit and German), Tiled roofs and ut_rommel style maps Doom: demonic textures, dark, gloomy, tight corners, keycards Slippeh: Brown....... and a bit of maroon, High-ceiling hall ways, linear Strogg: FRAG PIPE OMG! MAKE IT NOW!... sorry "Dapak" style mapping (Atriums, crossover hallways, balconies etc) Arena: Space maps, LOTS of shaders, floaty weapons with those annoying texture variants underneath them, jump pads, powerups that "float" and seem placed (like the bfg and rocket launcher from space ctf) Try combining them.. for example, slippehs brown stone textures and high ceilings combined with doomish architecture in a strogg compound or something |
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Footman
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earth: stuff you'd find in ww2, the big one  doom: hell, nuff said Slipgate: all kinds of stuff Strogg: crashed pods and stuff with broken buildings and bases arena: just look at q3s maps, you get the idea  off-topic: mmmm... beer.....  |
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Devlar
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The real question I wanted to pose is how do they feel when you play them, that's why i asked to describe architecture
Here's my version
Wolf - long passages, large open areas, abusing doors as a method of connection. Pretty much the equivilent of going on a run, a VERY long run. Aritecturally its pretty flat also, with usually tables, lamps and barrels being some of the only obsticles. These maps were fullbright
Doom - open areas connected by pathways to other open areas by pathways OR an open area connected to pathways that lead to exits or enterences or keys. Tech Levels tend to have corridors with relatively high ceilings while non-tech corridors are much lower, both corridors are just as wide. Predominant use of lifts and stairs to get around. The majority of details were pillars and computer consoles, as well as certain animated walls the architecture still remained relatvely flat. The lighting went anywhere from extremely dark to fullbright, also the first use of dynamic lights (which I learned to do in Quake3 with a really stupid trick today) including pulsating lights in rooms.
I'll finnish the last 3 in a bit
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games keeper
Elite
Posts: 1375
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earth =old village type maps.people who are in prisons (mostly only bones )
doom=bases (space) and hellplaces with mostly one open place and tighthalls around it .
most of the halls are filled with dead bodies .(many dead soldiers)
quake=bases but without the deadguys and more grass in it .
or gothic castles (midages)
quake2 = trapezium stilled hallways and doors. much more robotcs and wires on the walls then in doom .
much more unfixed things like peaces out of the wall.
things to make people become meat
quake 3 = round doors much of round things
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Stealer
Dopefish
Posts: 7
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ok heres a quick question, if you could describe them all yourself why are you asking??? anyhoo...
earth: people are looking for medal of honour style map, basically wolf maps would not be really fun multi, but a doom or slipgater running around an MOHAA, or RTCW style map would be really fun
doom: doom maps were always fun for me no matter how many times I played the same one over and over and over and over again, I couldn't get enough, it was all about getting the next kill run shoot run shoot find guy shoot, find peoples predictabilities then exploit it to no end
slipgate: where am I I'm lost I hate this game lets play doom, thats what I remember the most about Q1 maps
strogg: dammit he's up there dammit he's down there stop moving so I can shoot you, seriously cut it out, come here, stop killing me, hey I killed you, your either getting alot worse at this game or I'm getting slightly better
arena: my gun doesn't shoot fast enough for me to hit anyone, I should work on my aim that person is really far away, now he's right beside me, thats it wheres that bfg thats the only weapon I seem to be able to get a kill or two with, and the machine gun when someone is really low on health, ok now we're on some maze like map, I'm lost, wait this looks familiar, wait the guns aren't in the same spot...
I hope that helps :lol:
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Daedalus
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I hope that helps :lol: I seriously SERIOUSLY doubt it  |
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Devlar
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Why did I ask, I wanted to get a sense of what everyone considers a "themed" map
My last 3
Quake - Military outposts in fashionable brown, pretty much nearing the idea of Quake 2 except more of the architecture is located on the ground, the tech levels tend to be relatively flat, with a few exceptions. The gothic style is a bit more persian styled architecture than europe, there is a greater focus on the vertical but mainly around visibly different changes in high as opposed to overlapping platforms. The gameplay is usually clastrophobic, relying more on high ceilings than on width. Lighting is usually dark as hell, flickering is used in tech maps.
Quake 2- An improvement of the tech schema from quake1, main difference being a larger focus on the vertical in the map, as well as the overlap of brushes, kind of like aparatment buildings. Also the invention of cracked walls, control consoles and conveyer belts. The creation of technological palaces also played a bigger role, as well as the very amusing torture chambers. The gameplay tends to be a little slower, a little more methodological. this allows for wider pathways and even higher ceilings. Also the overuse of boxes.
Quake 3 - If it doesn't fit in any of the other catagories it goes in here, I would say space maps but then we'd be forgeting about HipDm
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Phoenix
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Ok, here's the bird's take on this. Here's a few examples.
Wolf themed maps:
Tight city-like areas that are broken and burned out, scorched earth and rubble in the streets. Shells of buildings where you can see the walls and a window pane with no roof and half of two walls connecting at a corner, etc. A broken down tank missing half the treads, sounds of explosions in the distance. Sewer tunnels beneath connecting some underground command and control centers and ammo bunkers. Generally very claustrophobic, with some open areas with debris. The Doom that Came to Dunwich is a good starting point for the overall architecture in a "clean" form (not blown up) if you stand on the street, even if it is old Boston.
Castle-like fortress maps with tight winding staircases, connected rooms with some tables, armaments, and prison cells. A big room with maps spread out across a table, radios hissing along the wall, and very narrow windows. A courtyard with barb-wire fence with a hole hidden next to a brick and mortar wall where prisoners escaped.. or soldiers infiltrated could lead to a powerup. Think "Where Eagles Dare".
Doom themed maps:
Doom 1 style: Phobos and Deimos bases. Technological maps had no logical design, basically winding corridors that had a good amount of room to move with defined rooms usually behind a door. Steps to change elevation - no ramps. Occasional area with lots of slime/nukeage. Wide doors, elevating platforms. No bounce pads. Lots of smaller health and armor scattered about. Weapons and ammo in rather odd places, but decent for flow. General metal tones, diffuse lighting with flickering and sometimes nearly pitch-black areas (new dynamic lighting projectile code upcoming in 99c will work wonders here). Levels tended to be somewhat linear in flow but with areas to double back to get to branching areas needed to further progress. Occasional use of teleporters on Deimos maps, uncommon on Phobos maps. High ceilings in open areas common, with tall walls. Usual height was 2x player height unless entering a large open place. Generally wide and flat maps with few radical elevation changes unless getting to a specific area. Use of crushers.
Doom 1 style: Hell. Radical color changes from one area to another, accompanied by changes in geometry. Often times you go from a techy room, open a door, and find rock walls with a glarind red hue. Otherworldly feel. Use of blood and lava pits. Spikes, skulls, and hanging bodies for decorations. Tech mixed with organic feel, levels tended to be more interconnected with lots of places to double back and circle around in the earlier maps, later levels had a few spots where you could hop right into the middle of somewhere else. Gratuitous use of teleporters on some maps. Crushers less common.
Doom 2 style: Hell on earth. Maps tended to be more square-ish, varying from cluttered hallways to wide open spaces with lots of structures. The Factory stands out as one of my favorites, along with Downtown. Bigger maps with lots of elevation changes and heavy use of elevating platforms. Smaller doors were more common that opened quicker than the larger Doom 1 variety. Smaller hallways more common than in Doom 1. Heavy use of brown bricks on some maps. Water, if any, was always ankle deep. Less common use of nukeage and lava except on certain maps. Bigger maps always had areas with huge elevation changes, smaller maps tended to be more flat and tight. Teleporter useage was more generalized. Few crushers.
Quake 1: Claustrophobic, tight hallways. Simple geometry with a strong sense of very crude manufacturing of the environment, like the world was carved out by some Uruk-hai grunts trying to play at being dwarven craftsmen. Rooms tended to be more squarish, along with the hallways. Water surfaces were murky greyish tones or looked like concentrated raw sewage. General muted browns, greys, and greens with the occasional elevating platform to get to a higher place. Stairs common, narrow walkways above other areas with sharp right-angle turns. Very few "big" open areas unless the entire map is generally outdoors. Lighting was always somewhat dull, never bright, but rarely pitch-black. Usually more than one way to get around the map, but the high-ground had the advantage. Scale feels MUCH smaller than in Q3. Very strange-looking skies.
Quake 2: Industrial. Massive metal structures with wide open walkways, computer equipment, and short but winding corridors. Mixed use of ramps and stairs, platforms where logical, occasional teleporter. Somewhat frequent damaged areas with access to crawlspaces. Some sewer-type environments with large water pipes. Ladders common. Lava and slime somewhat common. Machinery and mining tunnels, lots of boxes. Occasional lasers. Yellow ambience common, some areas with generally darker interiors but with blue, green, or red colored lights within said hallways or interior rooms. Rocky outside terrain, transition areas are rock with metal stuck right into it, like their whole society was built in areas blasted out of the rock. Many ways to get around a map, wide variance in types of rooms. Map feel is generally uniform as far as color goes, with changes in lighting. Inside and outside areas connecting on the same map common. Changes in elevation vary.
Quake 3: Techno-gothic. Sleek metal combined with draculaesque castle-like structures with narrow spires and use of curvature. Bounce pads and accel pads the usual mode of vertical transport. Some teleporters, but very uncommon. Architecture tends to be layered, with fairly defined regions of elevation. Symmetry in maps more pronounced than any other game. Strict emphasis on weapon/item placement and flow balance, frequent tendency to put powerful items in "trap" areas to make the player take a risk to get it. Use of space maps without any kind of starfield common.
One MAJOR gripe I have about remake maps is that people ALWAYS scale them up for Q3. Personally I think that tends to destroy the flow of what would be an otherwise fast-paced map. Geometric scale also has a lot to do with the feel of a map. Themed maps have a little more leverage and flexibility in that area I think, since there isn't an original to judge it against.
Those are my insights anyway.
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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Devlar
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One MAJOR gripe I have about remake maps is that people ALWAYS scale them up for Q3 Since I'm the biggest criminal in that area, you should be glad to see that Sever the Sphinx is to perfect scale when compared to the original, in fact almost a little smaller. I figured out a way of scaling Doom maps that's easier than using Bsp2map |
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