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Author Topic: Dear Gearbox... (A barely restrained rant.)  (Read 4784 times)
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LeeMon
 
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« on: 2004-05-02, 11:21 »

I would actually like to start out by thanking you for allowing me to visit your offices last August to witness HaloPC before its release.  It was very enjoyable, and I was pleased to see Halo brought from its Xbox incarnation to the PC through a near-perfect conversion.

But I'm going to delete a few pages of unfocused rambling segues and get to the point.

I went that August day to see HaloPC's modding capabilities.  You asked people from QuakeCon to go because you wanted input from the mod community (or so I was informed).  And while I was impressed with what you had made available to the community, I was continually frustrated during my time there--and continue to be frustrated to this day--at your insistence of using carefully worded responses to avoid telling people that you are, in fact, NOT OFFERING MOD SUPPORT FOR HALO.

Let me be more specific and focused in my shouting.  HALO PC HAS NO TOOLKIT AVAILABLE, ANNOUNCED, OR PLANNED THAT ALLOWS PLAYERS TO DO ANYTHING BUT CREATE NEW MAPS (WHICH MAY INCLUDE NEW ASSETS THAT USE *EXISTING* GAME LOGIC).

Now, Gearbox, if that statement is 100% false, please, correct me.  That is, if one of the following is true:

1) The currently announced HaloCE platform is, in fact, DESIGNED TO ALLOW players to create new player models/weapons/vehicles/game logic that does NOT have to be compiled entirely within a new map.
2) The currently announced HaloCE platform opens up previously unaccessible access to some form of game logic that can be edited and saved in a manner that allows it to be played without altering one's ability to play the original game.
3) The currently announced HaloCE platform does NOT allow these things, but we have actively planned, designed, and begin work on creating a package for future release that allows these things, although it may not be released for some time.

Now, if you cannot refute my sentence with one of these three statements, at this time, I would like to call "bullshit."

I cannot begin to describe the level of frustration I experienced while talking to Gearbox employees that fateful day.  Every single one of you went as far out of your way as possible to completely dress up this package as something it was not.  Any other FPS developer would call this a LEVEL EDITOR.  Bioware calls their package a toolkit.  You know why?  Because it includes complete access to the game logic via scripts, and the overwhelming majority of Neverwinter Nights that doesn't involve rendering, sound, or networking is scripted.

It took half an hour and fifteen different questions for me to get a Gearbox employee to give a Yes/No answer to the question, "does this include actual freaking mod support?"  They won't answer that question, and if you posed it to a Gearbox employee, you'd get an answer that you'd immediately notice was NOT A YES OR NO ANSWER.  So, you have to start asking a ton of questions and demand a yes or no answer on all of them.

Does this let you create new levels, which may or may not include new weapons or vehicles:  Yes.
Can you create new vehicles or weapons and use them in existing maps?  No.
Does this let you change player models?  No.
Can you make vehicles destructable?  No.  
Do you have any access to the code?  No.
Do you have any access to game logic?  No.  
Can you create new gametypes at all?  No.  

Half an hour to find out that, as a mod developer, I was completely wasting my time.  I was asked, as a mod community member, to see a game that has a LEVEL EDITOR and nothing more.

Now, this isn't what's angering me so much.  If it was, I'd have written this in August and we'd be long done.  What's angering me is that I've had to sit through two days of HaloCE announcements, and I'm about to overdose on Gearbox Brand Bullshit.  You people are like freaking hostage negotiators, YOU ABSOLTUTELY REFUSE TO SAY NO.

Let's see the evidence.  Exhibit One: An absolutely WONDERFUL Q&A session with Sal "Sluggo" Accardo,.  Creator of "Mod Central" back when GameSpy was PQ and ONLY PQ.  Surely Sluggo will get to the truth about the mod support for Halo?

Quote
GameSpy: Can you tell us how big this update will be, and what will be included?

Marc Tardif:  [...] The HEK is an exciting package of tools, source material and tutorials that will allow modification makers to bring their own visions to life within the Halo engine.

Strike One, Sluggo.

Quote
GameSpy: Gearbox has consistently expressed a desire to bring cooperative play to the PC version of Halo. What work has Gearbox done in this regard, and do you foresee co-op coming in any future updates?

Marc Tardif: [...] Our position now is to launch HaloCE and the HEK and see how the community takes off and then make a decision about how to work with the community to prioritize what it wants most out of the game.

Ouch, Strike Two.

Quote
GameSpy: Are there any plans for Gearbox to create and release any new content? Do you see Gearbox creating/releasing any new levels or game modes in the future?

Marc Tardif: [...]  [We] want to see how the community responds to all the great, new things that HaloCE and the HEK allow. We know that with the HEK, there will be huge amounts of new content coming from end users and we have an interest in seeing the best of this material join our own maps as official maps.

Strike Three, Sluggo's out.  That ends the interview, by the way; the rest of the questions involve such gripping issues as download size, graphics updates, and the always important release date of "soon".  Sluggo NEVER asks about mods, and Gearbox never tells.  A very positive interview where the developer never has to say anything they don't want to say.

Okay, maybe they're telling their fans something the mainstream media isn't ready to handle.  I mean, diehard Halo fans, the guys who read Gearbox's forums and post frequently, have GOT to be asking and demanding an answer, right?  They won't swallow a complete line of bull and walk away happy with no REAL answer... RIGHT?!?

[from this Gearbox forum link - all developer responses]
Quote
Will we be able to create new vehicles? Will there be an option that allows users to create new characters, or even a total conversion?
The HEK was deisgined for multiplayer maps. However, I wouldn't rule out someone figuring out how to make characters and vehicles. We'll have to wait and see what people figure out.

When custom designing a level can we create objects, ex. trees, rocks, etc. or will we be limited to default objects to choose from?
You will be able to create whatever you want.

Is Gmax going to be supported?
No, we do not support Gmax. You must use a version of 3DS Max to create your content. Gmax was in the works, but Discreet charges developers a ton of money for the "right" to release a gmax plugin. However, we do have Max 3, 4.2, and 5 versions of the exporter.

Is it possible that someone could unoffically make a gmax plugin?
Anything is possible.

Will there be any updates for the HEK itself or will it be open source?
Any updates to the HEK will come from Gearbox only.

How extensive are the developer console commands going to be?
You will receive all command that we used during development.

Will we be able to have scripted events in multiplayer?
Never been done, never been tested. No idea what would happen.

That is the list of questions in the forums as of 5/1/04 that actually got a response.  Note, that on a quick scan, numerous posts asking "so this makes mods, right?" were replied ONLY by fans responding, "duh, retard."

---

That's it.  That's my entire case.  My respect for Gearbox is rapidly diminishing by observing the way they're handling the community.  To be blunt, from what I have before me right now, I cannot picture this as anything but feeding a solid string of bullshit to Gearbox's fans.  All I want is ONE response ANYWHERE on the net where a Gearbox employee states clearly and emphatically that they do NOT have actual mod support.  One.

My only smartass remark is that Gearbox has clearly learned their public relations during their time in the shadow of Valve.  But that's a rant for another day.
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Woodsman
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« Reply #1 on: 2004-05-02, 17:00 »

whats halo again? oh yeah that game i cared about a little bit years ago.
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ConfusedUs
 

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« Reply #2 on: 2004-05-02, 17:02 »

I'd honestly like to play through Halo, all the way, just once. Slipgate - Wink
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dna
 
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« Reply #3 on: 2004-05-02, 18:36 »

I read thru that announcement and I'm a little unclear: will a person be able to create new SP content with this editor or is it for multiplayer maps only?
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Angst
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« Reply #4 on: 2004-05-02, 19:38 »

Hahaha, so, wait.. They announce that coop WILL happen in an upcoming patch so people will actually BUY pc halo. And now they're saying they'll have to see how the community takes this hamstrung level editor before they'll START?

HAH  Idiot
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« Reply #5 on: 2004-05-03, 06:00 »

What a steaming pile of mammoth dung.  Why don't they want people to make mods?  Are they afraid of the mod community, or is it that they're incompetent and cannot write their own tools?  Perhaps they should go back to making mission packs for already released commercial games.
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Hedhunta
 
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« Reply #6 on: 2004-05-03, 15:28 »

note this is a company that worked with valve several times.... including on CS:CZ.. and we all know what a nightmare that was. amazing it ever came out.
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Woodsman
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« Reply #7 on: 2004-05-03, 16:13 »

hey making mission packs for already released games is a good gig and so far its what gearbox has been best at. Really Gearbox cant be blamed for codition zero they didnt have it on thier plate for very long before it was passed to ritual. (by the way i dont care what anyone says i like condition zero deleted scenes)
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dna
 
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« Reply #8 on: 2004-05-06, 18:22 »

If nobody has checked it out yet, here is a quick review of the HEK.  This guy apparently made a Speed power-up for MP, so it might have some modding potential after all.
No SP support, which bites.  That is what Halo needs to survuve.
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