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Author Topic: Good News about the War (Sometimes things just go right)  (Read 19321 times)
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McDeth
 

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« Reply #20 on: 2003-03-25, 03:48 »

I agree with that last statement Phil. When the hell does a country like neutral Belgium have the right to call us idoits? Um....I guess they do because they are more rightous than us. Oh wait, wasn't it you guys who were raped by Germany during WWII and wasn't us EVIL Americans who pulled your fat out of the fire. You know, that's another thing I don't get. We help som many countries around the world and we get treated like shit. I would give up by now if I were in charge.

As for this America is always right crap, um, yea, we are, because we are the biggest, baddest, kid on the block and you better give us your cooperation or we'll knock you on your ass. Is that a fair enough responce Ass?
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dev/null
 
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« Reply #21 on: 2003-03-25, 04:00 »

Quote from: DaMan McDeth 666
As for this America is always right crap, um, yea, we are, because we are the biggest, baddest, kid on the block and you better give us your cooperation or we'll knock you on your ass. Is that a fair enough responce Ass?
That doesn't make it right, nor does it justify anything we do. It merely makes us the exact thing we claim to be fighting, terrorists! The biggest baddest kid on the block just needs an ass kicking to put him in his rightful place, no different than any other nieghborhood bully.
« Last Edit: 2003-03-25, 04:03 by dev/null » Logged
Dr. Jones
 

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« Reply #22 on: 2003-03-25, 05:23 »

Quote from: DaMan McDeth 666
As for this America is always right crap, um, yea, we are, because we are the biggest, baddest, kid on the block and you better give us your cooperation or we'll knock you on your ass. Is that a fair enough responce Ass?

These few mindless automatons are who I believe is responsible for the image most of the rest of the world has of us.  However, I also blame those who hear the opinions of these people and believe that the majority of U.S. citizens feel their country can do whatever they want.

Quote from: dev/null
That doesn't make it right, nor does it justify anything we do. It merely makes us the exact thing we claim to be fighting, terrorists! The biggest baddest kid on the block just needs an ass kicking to put him in his rightful place, no different than any other nieghborhood bully.

Contrary to what you apparently believe, and what Daman would have you believe, we do not go around stomping on every country who disagrees with us.  If this were the case, then why have we not attacked France, Germany, Russia, and China?  Oh yeah.  Because they have done nothing to harm us.  We respect their opinions, but in this case, we felt that their opinion of us was not as important as the threat Saddam's regime posed to us.  We are not terrorists.  Terrorists strike with cowardice, killing innocent civilians, and then go back into hiding.  When we strike, we strike hard and fast, hitting our intended target while trying to avoid civilian casualties, and try to take the opinions of other nations into consideration before we do it.
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dev/null
 
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Vadrigar
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« Reply #23 on: 2003-03-25, 05:29 »

Main Entry: ter?ror?ism
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r-"i-z&m
Function: noun
Date: 1795
: the systematic use of terror especially as a means of coercion
- ter?ror?ist  /-&r-ist/ adjective or noun
- ter?ror?is?tic  /"ter-&r-'is-tik/ adjective

Main Entry: ter?ror
Pronunciation: 'ter-&r
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French terreur, from Latin terror, from terrEre to frighten; akin to Greek trein to be afraid, flee, tremein to tremble -- more at TREMBLE
Date: 14th century
1 : a state of intense fear
2 a : one that inspires fear : SCOURGE b : a frightening aspect c : a cause of anxiety : WORRY d : an appalling person or thing; especially : BRAT
3 : REIGN OF TERROR
4 : violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
synonym see FEAR
- ter?ror?less  /-l&s/ adjective

Main Entry: co?er?cion
Pronunciation: -'&r-zh&n, -sh&n
Function: noun
Date: 15th century
: the act, process, or power of coercing

Main Entry: co?erce
Pronunciation: kO-'&rs
Function: transitive verb
Inflected Form(s): co?erced; co?erc?ing
Etymology: Latin coercEre, from co- + arcEre to shut up, enclose -- more at ARK
Date: 15th century
1 : to restrain or dominate by force
2 : to compel to an act or choice
3 : to bring about by force or threat
synonym see FORCE
- co?erc?ible  /-'&r-s&-b&l/ adjective

Hmmm... Yeah...  <_<
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Dr. Jones
 

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« Reply #24 on: 2003-03-25, 07:34 »

yes the U.S. uses coercion sometimes, and i generally disagree with that tactic.  but calling us terrorists is horseshit.  how many french citizens wake up every day wondering if we are going to blow them up?  or chinese citizens?  laotian?  chilean?  hmmm... didn't think so.  therefore i fail to see how your dictionary definitions apply to us.  i'm sure you're going to point to #4 in the "terror" entry, so i'm going to beat you to the punch.

we are not attempting to use terror to coerce the iraqi government to do anything.  they did not comply with international law, and we are being the enforcer in this case.  because saddam has repeatedly openly defied the U.N., we have decided that he is a threat to the free world, and will be removed.  perhaps it is not our place to be the enforcers, but if not, then who?  i didn't see the U.N. taking any action...  once saddam's regime is removed from power, the sovereign nation of iraq will be neutral with the U.S., and possibly even an ally.  yes we will have influence in helping to set up their initial government after saddam is removed from power, but let's face it: they aren't going to be able to set up their own government themselves.
« Last Edit: 2003-03-25, 07:38 by Lt. Phil » Logged
Phoenix
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« Reply #25 on: 2003-03-25, 07:38 »

Quote from: dev/null
: the systematic use of terror
That's what Saddam has done to his people, and what Al Qaida and other radical militant Islamic types do.

Quote from: dev/null
: REIGN OF TERROR
Saddam's regime.

Quote from: dev/null
: violence (as bombing) committed by groups in order to intimidate a population or government into granting their demands
Well that's how it USED to work when people hijacked airplanes just to take hostages...

Quote from: dev/null
: the act, process, or power of coercing
Coercing can take many forms, can be good, can be bad.  A criminal robbing a bank is a bad form of coercing.  A police officer aiming a pistol at that bank robber to arrest him is a good form of coercing.

Of course I understand your "point" here was to again somehow villify the United States.  Something I think a lot of people fail to grasp here is that Osama, Saddam, Hitler, Stalin... these people care nothing about life.  The terrorists who attacked on 9/11 and those like them care nothing about your high ideals.  Their whole intention was murder.  GENOCIDE is what these people are after, nothing more, nothing less.  They will not negotiate, they will not capitulate, they won't surrender, and they won't stop.  They will keep killing, and killing, and killing, until there is nobody left to kill.  Give them the power to carry out the greatest evils and they will.  You cannot reason with or re-educate or de-program these people.  All you can do is kill them before they kill you.  That is the simple truth of dealing with evil men.  Their hearts are hardened, and their pleasures are sadistic, and full of murderous violence for no other purpose than to perpetuate suffering, and death.  Inaction and complacency will not avail you, and will only allow this cancer to grow.  If you're ready to face extinction then continue to do nothing and you will. Slipgate - Asleep
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McDeth
 

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« Reply #26 on: 2003-03-25, 07:44 »

Heh, if I truely believed that bit of sarcasm I would be a fool.....
Understand something, we are not justified in any killing, necessary or not. It is, however, justified that we protect ourselves. We are the only superpower, true, and we have the responsibilty to protect the world from such evil and tyranny such as Saddam's Regime. We will not take an attack on our soil sitting down. We will not let appeasment take place (we all remember Chamberlain, yes?). It is ridiculous to think that we don't need to fight this. It just is. A cold, if not treated can kill you. Saddam is a sickness in the world and must be dealt with. Period. This whole protest thing is just another excuse for people to be hippies again. It is simply not necessary. Hippies had their place in the unjustified war of Vietnam, not in this era.

Let me add this also, America is and was always far from perfect. We were imperialists, racists, isolationalists, everything not good at one point in our history. So no, we are not self-righteous. I believe you have been influenced by a hell of a lot of proganda where ever you live ASSMITE.

BTW Phil, I wrote that first post so ASSIMITE may squirm. It is far from what I truely believe.
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #27 on: 2003-03-25, 11:38 »

"Understand something, we are not justified in any killing, necessary or not. It is, however, justified that we protect ourselves."

If ultimately protecting yourself means the killing of another, that act would shred that statement's logic apart in confliction with its definition. I really don't like it =/

"Let me add this also, America is and was always far from perfect."

I also don't like that line... America is a working country with a working government.  Imperfect? Yes. Far from perfect? That depends on your definition of what is perfect. I see perfect as an idea of when acts reach their maximum potential. For example, you could fire off a perfect rocket in Quake - in the sense that it did the most damage that it could do to your opponet(s). Being human, we rarely reach perfection in most of everything we do. However, to say that something is far from perfect implies that there is something severely wrong. Back to the Quake example, firing off a rocket that hits your teammate or does barely any damage is far from perfect. When you say that America is and was always far from perfect, I imagine a country near-anarchy. America does have its flaws, but it has a humungous host of praiseworthy traits as well. Don't slander the 'States with misused words please =/

"We were imperialists, racists, isolationalists, everything not good at one point in our history. So no, we are not self-righteous."

'Patriotism' is a form of self-righteousness, and there's a lot of that going around these days  Slipgate - Wink

In short, I think you're arguing the right thing for the wrong reasons DaMan.  Fainting

- What are your thoughts on if we are fighting this war because of an overdose of 'Patriotism' - caused by national pride instilled in the population, propaganda stirring up an explosive additude, and a third-world country that set off a spark, causing a violent reaction?

This entire thread has been a great read to me - I've learned a lot of insight on the value of the war from reading these long posts [both moral and economical]. Keep it up - I want more!  Slipgate - Smile
« Last Edit: 2003-03-25, 11:47 by Tekhead » Logged
Dr. Jones
 

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« Reply #28 on: 2003-03-25, 13:06 »

Quote from: DaMan McDeth 666
Heh, if I truely believed that bit of sarcasm I would be a fool.....

{...}

BTW Phil, I wrote that first post so ASSIMITE may squirm. It is far from what I truely believe.
that may be the case, but i wish you wouldn't post it, all it does is give the super-left-wingers out there more ammunition.

not that i'm against liberalism, or conservatism (i think that's a word).  but extremes on either end of the scale are a bad thing, and those who are on one of the extremes have generally lost touch with reality...
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Hedhunta
 
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« Reply #29 on: 2003-03-25, 21:52 »

on a funny note, my dad told me about a 50's movie where an alien species with the power to destroy the entire earth lands somewhere in america, fearing destruction the governments of the major countries of the world unite and tell the aliens 'alright, here we are, we'll be nice and not blow each other apart anymore' the alien replys ' WHAT?! YOU GUYS ARE A WARRIOR RACE!! YOUR SUPPOSED TO FIGHT EACH OTHER!!' and then with a snap of fingers the earth is shown exploding in the final scene......



 Slipgate - Laugh  Slipgate - Laugh  :lol:  :lol:
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dev/null
 
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Vadrigar
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« Reply #30 on: 2003-03-25, 22:14 »

Not my idea of humor... But ironic none the less  Slipgate - Wink
« Last Edit: 2003-03-25, 23:35 by dev/null » Logged
Hedhunta
 
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« Reply #31 on: 2003-03-25, 22:54 »

well it was funnier im sure if you watched the movie.. im giving a third hand description so its no as funny as when my dad tells it..
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Bald&Sexy
 
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« Reply #32 on: 2003-03-25, 23:45 »

here's something I find funny and actually goes along with the current theme =)
« Last Edit: 2003-03-25, 23:47 by Bald&Sexy » Logged
McDeth
 

Makron
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« Reply #33 on: 2003-03-26, 05:07 »

Quote from: Lt. Phil

that may be the case, but i wish you wouldn't post it, all it does is give the super-left-wingers out there more ammunition.

not that i'm against liberalism, or conservatism (i think that's a word).  but extremes on either end of the scale are a bad thing, and those who are on one of the extremes have generally lost touch with reality...

 
I understand. I just think it is a good example of "Patriotism"......
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pepe
 

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« Reply #34 on: 2003-03-26, 11:28 »

actually phil  hitler did say what he wanted to do just that not many bothered to read mein kampf and take it seriously
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dev/null
 
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Vadrigar
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« Reply #35 on: 2003-03-26, 18:24 »

Quote from: Bald&Sexy
here's something I find funny and actually goes along with the current theme =)
LOL  :lol:

What about this and that?  Slipgate - Smile
« Last Edit: 2003-03-26, 18:29 by dev/null » Logged
Tekhead
 
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« Reply #36 on: 2003-03-26, 21:56 »

Here's a general question to everyone posting here:

Where are your sources of info backing up your statements of facts?

I'd like to see some kind of documentation backing what some of you guys are saying. Just a request so that I can study the same material and see if I come up with the same conclusions =]
 - Tekhead
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Hedhunta
 
Chton
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« Reply #37 on: 2003-03-26, 22:05 »

ive backed everything ive said with articles and links.. just check the old debate post for that.. anything i dont have specific proof of i state as my opinion or that im not 100% sure and ask for the other person to look it up if they dont beleive me.
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dev/null
 
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Vadrigar
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« Reply #38 on: 2003-03-26, 22:16 »

If you're talking about those last two links I posted, they're nothing more than sattire... In fact, I believe it says that at the bottom of the pages  Slipgate - Wink
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Vadertime
 

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« Reply #39 on: 2003-03-27, 01:45 »

The really good news is, food shipments are arriving in IRAQ now and the people don't absolutely hate us. Many of them are turning against Saddam in the Southeastern towns. Anybody that dissolves people in acid if they criticize his rule must be really sadistic. Sure nobody likes to be invaded, but the Iraqi's are better off without Saddam. Now, the BAD news is that it will probably take 30 or 40 years to hold a government together over there that's not as bad as Saddam. Just like it's going to take a long time to get Afghanistan under control. Anywhere that still has tribal conflicts going is more or less f*cked.
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