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Author Topic: Israel Bombed Nukes in Syria?  (Read 7261 times)
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Phoenix
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« on: 2007-09-17, 00:32 »

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/middle_east/article2461421.ece

Well this is interesting.  I remember reading the article about Israeli jets "overflying" Syria and dropping their long-range fuel tanks.  Now it turns out it was more than just an overflight, and both sides were hush about it.  Normally when someone bombs you for "no good reason" you cry foul and make a stink.  Syria's been awfully quiet about the bombing part, so I wonder just what they were up to.  I'd also like to know why this isn't front page news when this is a fairly serious matter.
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« Reply #1 on: 2007-09-17, 10:16 »

I'd also like to know why this isn't front page news when this is a fairly serious matter.

Israel and Syria must be unfamiliar with the adage of "sweeping the mess underneath the carpet."  Still, the truth behind the matter frightens me because either way it's an act of aggression if not an act of war.  And things just get worse if North Korea was indeed involved...
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Kajet
 

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« Reply #2 on: 2007-09-17, 12:29 »

All I can say is it's about time to put your head between your knees and kiss your ass goodbye...
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Phoenix
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« Reply #3 on: 2007-09-17, 14:39 »

Indeed, it's beginning to look that way:

http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=070916184430.t5avfcg9&show_article=1
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/news/2007/09/16/wiran116.xml
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?c...mp;pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

War with Iran is inevitable.  If the US does not attack their missile sites, Israel will be forced to, otherwise Iran will eventually launch missiles into Israel and Iraq.  Ahmadinijad has sworn to wipe Israel off the face of the earth.  To quote Psalm 83:


Quote
They have said, Come, and let us cut them off from [being] a nation; that the name of Israel may be no more in remembrance.

So what can be done?  If you don't take Iran down, eventually they'll attack Israel, and Israel will enact its "Samson" option if nuclear weapons are used against it - which will turn the entire Middle East into a sea of glass.  If the US doesn't act and Israel does, Iran will launch missiles not only into Israel but also at US targets in Iraq, which means the US still goes to war with Iran.  If the US attacks, again, Iran will launch retaliatory strikes.  A limited response against nuclear sites can't work - ALL the missile installations must be destroyed in a blitzkrieg air campaign to prevent Iran launching missiles into Israel and Iraq.  Still... if the either country acts at all, it could send the entire Muslim world into Jihad mode overnight.  It's a rather ugly catch-22.  There's no happy end to this that I can foresee.  I'd suggest prayer, as it's going to take a miracle to get out of this.
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Kajet
 

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« Reply #4 on: 2007-09-17, 22:50 »

So then why isn't this plastered on the news and everywhere else? Instead all I see is the usual shit about famous people no one cares about...
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Phoenix
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« Reply #5 on: 2007-09-18, 06:04 »

Because those in power don't think that the common person can handle it.  It might "scare" people, and we can't have that because any time you do that, people start conserving money.  Conserving money hurts the capitalist idol, that thing called the economy.  Besides stupid famous people, THAT is all you hear about as well.  "Oh the economy is doing good" or "the economy took a hit".  They speak of it like it's some kind of god that has a life of its own that everyone must serve, and I do think they treat it that way.  Well, a big war in the middle east would hurt the flow of oil, and oil is necessary not only for fuel, but also petroleum byproducts are used in the manufacturing processes of just about everything on earth.  The chemical industry cannot exist without it.  So... if something severely disrupts the flow of oil what happens to the economy?  What happens if people know about it in advance?  Well they might get a little harsh toward the politicians.

Then you have the other side of it.  There's a large antiwar sentiment as well, and people are burned out on how things are going in Iraq.  Having another war looming on the horizon is something a lot of people don't want.  Allowing Iran to dominate the middle east is something that just cannot happen as it will disrupt the modern way of life and (you guessed it) ruin the economy because the flow of oil to the world will be affected.

This is also where another dictator by the name of Hugo Chavez comes into the picture.  He's someone else you don't hear too much about, but he's in charge of Venezuela right now.  He's also very, very cozy with Ahmadinejad - and happens to also control another one of the world's largest oil producing countries.  Military action with Iran may result in Chavez cutting off the flow of oil from Venezuela.

One last piece of the puzzle is the trade defecit between the US and China.  The US dollar is losing its value rapidly, and nobody seems to put much importance on this fact.  It is important because China holds a few billion treasury notes that it could dump overnight for Euros.  The US government owes so much debt to China there's no way it could ever pay it back.  Think of it like a big credit card bill.  When you start having to borrow money just to pay the interest you know you're screwed and you'll never get out of it.  The little guy has an option called bankruptcy.  What does a country have as an option?  Something a lot of people don't know is that the US dollar is propped up with Saudi Oil.  Nixon negotiated a trade deal with the Saudi royal family that they only accept US dollars in exchange for their oil.  In return, the US would protect Saudi Arabia militarily.  This is why there are US airbases there, the same airbases that were used in the 1991 Gulf war.  This deal ensured two things:  That the US would have a steady oil supplier, and that the US dollar would have at least some value on the world market.  The problem there is Saudi Arabia no longer supplies enough oil for the US demand, and there are other currencies like the Euro that are now more appealing to other countries.  It also has an Achilles Heel.  If the Saudi family were to be deposed, say, by some Wahabist like Bin Laden (who tried which is why he got thrown out of the country and went to Afghanistan in the first place) the US dollar becomes worthless overnight.  If you have an import economy like the US has and your currency is worthless, you can't afford to import anything.  All those cheap Chinese goods sold at Wal-Mart would become very expensive very quickly, and who could afford them?

Add another nasty fact to this picture.  The housing market in the US right now is a disaster.  Five years ago it was booming in the same way the dot com market was, and it's tanking the same way the dot com markets did.  There are abandoned houses all over the place, and for sale signs on a lot of properties that cannot be sold.  Two things drive a consumption economy - cheap labor, and debt.  Corporate and personal debt is absurdly high in the US right now.  It was because of the amount of personal debt that the trade agreements in the 1990's were negotiated.  By outsourcing factories, prices could be kept down by using cheap foreign labor for mass production of goods.  By lowering quality standards, goods could be made cheaper, thus offsetting shipping costs.  There's a limit to how long you can do this, and I think that limit is fast approaching.  Cheap labor isn't cheap anymore as China and India are both industrializing themselves.  Debt has skyrocketted, and when people can't pay their debt, they go bankrupt, and bankrupt loans tend to make financial institutions fold.

Since the economic system is based on the flow of money and not the value of it (value is important mainly for offshore trading)... if people started saving money instead of spending it, the entire economic machine freezes up.  Why do you think after 9-11 Bush said the best thing everyone could do was go out and go shopping?  They didn't want people hoarding assets!  That's what they're afraid of.  They know the economy is a system that is going to collapse at some point in time.  It has to because of how it's set up.  They don't want people worrying and panicking so they keep a lot of important information very quiet.  Worried people are bad for political careers.  Oh the information is out there, and you can find it if you look for it.  It does not paint a very pretty picture, and they know it.  That's why they give you the mushroom treatment on the 6 o'clock news.  Businesses and politicians want people fat, happy, and ignorant.  They want dumb cows as subjects.  When the cattle begin to think it's dangerous for the ones holding prods.

I remember the cries of "no blood for oil" before the Iraq war.  What a lot of people don't understand is that economically speaking, oil IS blood.  The flow of oil makes everything in the world work.  No oil means starving babies, because you cannot transport food without diesel fuel, and you cannot process the plastic packaging for the food without the chemicals produced from petroleum byproducts.  Kill the oil supply, kill the currency, and you deadlock the entire country.  Bin Laden knew this when he hit the World Trade center.  I doubt that he's forgotten, nor any other enemies of the United States.  I don't want to sound alarmist, but I feel I would be doing disservice to everyone here that I know if I did not offer some warning of what may be on the horizon.
« Last Edit: 2007-09-18, 06:16 by Phoenix » Logged


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Kajet
 

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« Reply #6 on: 2007-09-18, 07:04 »

So then another depression will hit america sometime in the future? What are the chances of the whole government collapsing? Seems like if people get pissed enough they'll start a revolution...

It does seem about time our current government goes under, it's lasted a lot longer than others hasn't it?
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Phoenix
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« Reply #7 on: 2007-09-18, 07:36 »

The USSR collapsed, and it had been second only to the US in might.  It is possible for the United States to collapse, just like any country.  I would like this to not happen, because I know the implications not only for those I care for here, but also for the rest of the world should that come to pass.
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Lopson
 

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« Reply #8 on: 2007-09-18, 07:46 »

Like Pho said, America musn't collpase, not ATM. As much as you might hate the US (not my case), you must understand that the Western world exists only because of the US.
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Kajet
 

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« Reply #9 on: 2007-09-18, 08:24 »

I don't hate the US, it just should be a lot better before idiots start spewing crap like it's the best country (especially people who've never even been somewhere else)

Yeah, the US collapsing would be a BAD thing, if for no other reason our weapon stockpile that surpasses anyone else's armory.
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Sucutrule
 

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« Reply #10 on: 2007-09-19, 22:18 »

OFFTOPIC: Defcon? Anyone?

If something big happens then Israel is royally screwed.Since Syria is an allie of Iran.
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Phoenix
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« Reply #11 on: 2007-09-20, 05:26 »

The problem with Israel being royally screwed is that it means everyone else is screwed.  First, there's the Samson option.  If Israel is going down, they'll launch ALL their nukes and wipe out their Arab neighbors.  Keep in mind Israel has been invaded several times since 1948 by Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria, etc, and despite peace accord after peace accord there's still no peace between the Palestinians and Israel.  So they've got a reason to be a bit skittish about their neighbors.

Second, there's the Armageddon scenario.  In the bible, it's prophesied that Israel WILL be invaded by an alliance of Russia and several Arab nations, followed by the remnant of the Russian military and a 200 million man army from the Orient (China alone can muster that many grunts, trust me), and that Europe will also be involved in this fight, just prior to Christ returning to earth to put a stop to all the madness.  This invasion is supposed to happen 3.5 years after the Antichrist confirms a peace accord, which is then broken by the Russians and the Arabs, who would have been conspiring secretly during this time.  If you think this is better than the first scenario, this war lasts an additional 3.5 years.  In addition, this entire period of time is known as the tribulation and lasts for 7 years (3.5 years prior to and 3.5 years after the breaking of the peace accord) during which all sorts of Wrath of God kind of stuff happens, and results in half the world's population being killed, and 1/3 of the land surface of the earth being burned or otherwise destroyed.  It will make WWII look like a day at the beach, and it will be the darkest period in the history of this world.

I don't think the world would be too comfortable with either scenario.  I know there's a lot of tense opinion over Israel and the Palestinians, and the middle east in general.  What I cannot stress enough is that what happens there will have repercussions for the entire world, regardless of how it plays out.  If you've read Frank Herbert's Dune there's allegory between Arakis being the center of the universe because of the Spice Melange, and the Middle East being the center of the world because of oil.  If the "spice" stops flowing, the whole world takes notice, and yes it can trigger a world war for economic reasons.  Throw in the religious reasons too - the middle east is predominantly Muslim, and the Jews and Muslims kind of disagree over who should own the temple mount in Jerusalem.

To make matters worse, I just learned earlier today that it was in fact a North Korean ship docking at a Syrian port 3 days prior that was possibly the impetus for the airstrike by Israel.  Now we have October 12 as a possible day of something happening by Ahmedinijad's own words.  Of course he's full of a lot of hot air, but I do wonder if he knows something we do not.  I don't think we'll ever really know if nuclear materials were being delivered to Syria or not, but I did find this little gem of an article.  Sarin nerve gas is nothing to take lightly, and the Jews kind of have a thing against being gassed.  Syria is playing with fire, and so is Iran.  One chemical weapon lands in Israel and it could mean a full nuclear response against Syria and Iran both.  If there wasn't nuclear material at this location that was bombed, then I think perhaps this little bombing run may have been a message to Syria not to try a repeat of what happened last summer with Lebanon.  Either way it means Syria is up to something major.  Countries don't usually send messages using aircraft and munitions, and with Iran in the background calling for Israel's annihilation and with North Korea involved...

I'm no prophet, and I don't like making predictions but I can't see any way out of this box except war with Iran, possibly as soon as within a year's time at the rate things are going.  If that's the case, I'd be looking for Al Qaida to be attempting some major terrorist attack on the US to try to cripple the US and isolate Israel prior to any move by the Iranians.  I hope I'm wrong, but if I were on the other side planning things it would be a logical strategy to remove the US from the picture or at least distract it prior to any action against Israel.  Looking back I think 9/11 was just a test, like setting off a firecracker in an ant hill.  They wanted to see how the US would react, and being patient bastards, how long it would take the US to go back to being complacent.  Well they've had plenty of time to study the long term results, and I'm sad to say, it's back to business as usual.  Instead of uniting people, there's even more division and in the government there's more partisan bickering now than there was before the war.  They've had 6 years to watch, wait, and plan.  It may be easy to say, "well, they've not been able to pull off another attack in 6 years so we must be doing something right".  I would say, why waste time and effort on small stuff when you can wait, let your enemy go to sleep again, and pull off the big one?
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