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Phoenix
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« on: 2008-05-13, 16:25 »

The menu for the last month:

Freak earthquake in Illinois that I felt all the way in Ohio.  I do NOT like my perch vibrating under my feet like that.  No, stop thinking dirty thoughts already.

Tornadoes rip across the US...

Cyclone hits Burma, oh sorry, Myanmar as it's now known, and kills a lot of people...

Volcano erupts in Chile...

More tornadoes rip across the US...

7.9 quake hits China and kills a lot of people

More tornadoes rip across the US...

Mt. Etna wakes up again and erupts too...

Does anyone else notice the pattern?  There's a lull in this sort of thing for a while, then they all hit in a relatively short time, there's a lull, and it happens again.  It's not always the same thing and not always in the same area.  For example, it might be something like the quake and tsunami that hit Indonesia coupled with wildfires in the US, or all the hurricanes that hit Florida and the southern US over a space of two weeks, but there's a cyclical pattern to these disasters, and it's been accelerating over the last two decades.  The Earth is more unsettled now than it has been in a very, very long time.  I firmly believe these events are warnings.  I believe this is the beginning of greater sorrows to come and that time is running short for this world.  Normally I do not like to preach, but everything I have watched and observed up to this time is working in lock-step with my understanding of prophetic predictions.  The politics of the world, the decline of the United States as a world power and the rise of Europe, China, and the renewal of Russia as a world power, the increasing tensions between Iran (biblical Persia) and Israel, whispers of famine, the outbreak of new and vicious diseases over the last ten years...  It's all falling into place with alarming precision.

Believe what you will, but consider what I say.  Today it's a few tornadoes in Missouri, or a cyclone in Burma, or a quake in some remote part of China, but tomorrow it could be you.  Blame it on Global Warming if you want, hell I don't care why it's happening.  You cannot argue against the facts, and the facts are that these events are increasing and nobody is immune.  Everyone thinks it always happens to the "other guy" until it happens to them.  I won't tell anyone here what to believe, you all know what I believe and why, and you know that I expect people to make up their own damned minds.  What I would suggest is that you take a firm look at what is important in your life.  Think about where you are going, think about the people you love, your plans for the future, and take a moment to stop and reflect on it all.  Step out of the busy, non-stop "go" of the world for a moment and appreciate all your blessings and the things you take for granted every day.  One day you may wake up and everything could be gone, and there's too much room for regret about things you were "just too busy" to do.  Don't let it be said that you "just never got around to it".  Say the words that need to be said, forgive those you've been meaning to forgive, make your peace with God if you've been putting it off.  You are all young, but death is not selective and while God is forgiving, time is not.  If you've been putting something off, make the time now.  You are not guaranteed tomorrow and regrets leave only bitter memories of what we could have done and did not.
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« Reply #1 on: 2008-05-13, 16:52 »

I too felt that Earthquake. It was bizarre. I'm in Dayton, Ohio though, so it's just right across the boarder so to speak. Where abouts are you in Ohio anyway, Phoenix?
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« Reply #2 on: 2008-05-13, 21:29 »

Southwestern region.  I'd rather be in the southwestern region of the country, but unfortunately I am needed here instead at present or I would be in desert climate that is more to my liking.
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« Reply #3 on: 2008-05-14, 18:47 »

At least you have some nice hills down there. All the flat, glaciated land up here gets monotonous. ;P
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« Reply #4 on: 2008-05-14, 22:11 »

I consider myself very fortunate to be in the situation that I'm in. Whether what we are seeing is a result of Global Warming or some higher power I'm in no position to say, but one thing is for sure and that is that the world we live in is falling apart, physically, socially and economically.
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« Reply #5 on: 2008-05-15, 06:41 »

It quite amaze me how negativ so many of u "over" there are.. of course something is sporked up with the weather, but if this is the "warning of the impending doom" well i can't say if your right of your wrong it's up to your own beliefs.

Things are happening in the world but it has been going on for quite awhile.

Thought there is a question i always wondered when it comes to the "christian worlds end" if God created the world why whould he destroy it?
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Phoenix
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« Reply #6 on: 2008-05-15, 18:25 »

I so hate clicking the wrong button.  I had described everything to answer this question in detail, and it appears I am not meant to do so as I accidentally closed the wrong tab.  *sigh*  I'll start over I guess.

God, according to the bible, will not destroy the earth.  He will stop those who are destroying the earth from doing so.  Unfortunately, mankind, through wars, famine, and disease, will manage to kill half the human population of the earth, and 1/3 of the remaining natural world prior to this act of divine intervention.  During this tribulation, yes, there will be divine judgment leveled against the wicked nations, but not until this specific period of seven years.  The catastrophic natural events occurring right now are not necessarily God acting out in some kind of rage.  They are predicted, but prediction does not necessarily equate with cause.   When I saw the World Trade Center buildings damaged from the airplanes, I predicted they would collapse within an hour.  That prediction came true, but did my saying to myself, "these buildings are going to fall," actually cause them to fall, or did I simply recognize the outcome of events based on what I was witnessing?  Biblical prophecy works a bit differently as it is revealed by God directly to the prophets so it is more certain than the simple logical conclusion I drew about the two towers, however the same principle is at work in that if God is revealing something to a prophet it does not necessarily mean that God Himself is directly causing the event, only that God is telling the prophet what the event will be irrespective of the actual cause.

I do not believe the events we are seeing now are the wrath of God.  Wrath is reserved for the time of tribulation, which is marked by the appearance of the Antichrist and lasts for seven years.  We are not in that time, and I can say that with certainty because there is not a seven year peace treaty negotiated between the Antichrist and Israel (see Daniel chapter 9).  The events happening today are to be marked as signs that this time of tribulation may be very near, and that Christ's promised return also may be very near.  That is not supposed to be a sign of doom to a believer, but a sign of joy.  Unfortunately it's a bittersweet joy because while we look forward to the return of our Lord, we know what must preceed it, so it is tempered with sorrow for the suffering we know is coming to the world.  That only increases a feeling of urgency to warn about what we believe is coming.  It's not that we want to scare people into believing in God, but that, believing that this time is near, out of love and concern, it is a duty to alert people to what might be on the way so they can know and not be caught unaware.  It does not take away the personal right and responsibility of choice and freewill concerning belief in God.  However, if the time to make that choice is drawing short then that particular point is rather important!  If you saw someone's roof was burning, would you not warn them that the whole house may soon be on fire?  Perhaps the fire will burn itself out, but perhaps it will consume the whole structure and kill everyone inside.  The sooner they know the house could burn down, the sooner they can do something about it.  They can still choose to ignore it but by seeing the fire and saying nothing how much harm would someone through inaction have done, and how much good by warning could have been accomplished?  That's the risk I take with silence, and it is a risk I cannot take with good conscience.  If what I say changes nothing, then I have lost nothing but some of my own time by speaking out, and it's a loss I do not mind as I have all eternity to spend as I please once my time here is done.  I cannot say with certainty that this is the time preceeding the tribulation, but what I can say is it looks pretty damned close to what was predicted, and I'm not going to keep my beak shut if I think I can do some good.  Besides, I'm too old to do much else.  I won't be around too many more years and I'm going to squawk with what time I have left.

According to everything I understand about the bible, and according to what many scholars understand, God does not want to destroy the earth.  Why should he?  Look at the vast universe.  If you made all that, why destroy it unless you were insane?  Consider Christ and the cross.  The Gospels teach that God's justice demands man pay for his sins, but that God's mercy is such that he sent Jesus to take the place of man, and that Jesus went willingly to torment and death to obtain for man what man could never obtain for himself.  He did this because he loves man and wants man to spend eternity in a place of eternal joy, happiness, and fellowship with God.  If you were an eternal being, would you not want that which you make and love to last forever too?  That is not the picture of a God who wants to destroy in wrath and rage, but a God who is willing to give everything, even to suffer the most horrible torments, for that which he loves.  God loves life, and loves the earth, and everything and everyone in it.  He even loves all those who choose to spend eternity apart from Himself.  As for feeling, imagine how a father would feel whose children reject his love.  Imagine your own children turning their backs on you, how that would make you feel.  Yet, a loving father gives his children a choice to make their own way, so some choose heaven, and some choose hell.  If God went through all the trouble of the Crucifixion and Resurrection, which do you think he'd prefer people choose?  Many like to blame God, or deny God, saying if God exists how could he allow such cruelty and evil in the world, how could he allow pain and suffering, especially when it falls upon people who do not deserve it?  Yes, God allows evil to be in the world, but he spared not his own son, and who has suffered worse than the man who led a perfect life and did no wrong, and was scourged and crucified, bearing the crushing weight of the world's sins, past, present and future, on him as he died?  Who would willingly go to such a fate?  If man suffers, God suffered worse for man's sake out of his unending love for his creation.  If God allows evil in the world, consider that if man would stop doing evil to fellow man then would there be any evil to allow?

The earth will not be destroyed.  It will be beaten, and blackened, and scourged by war, but ultimately it will be redeemed, and renewed.  The earth and all the heavens will be purged and cleansed with fire, but as I die, decrepit and aged and corrupt in body, and rise renewed from my ashes, so shall all of Creation also be renewed one thousand years hence from the time of Christ's return and the final rebellion which shall come after that time.  My very life is a prophecy that people have long forgotten the meaning of, and while somehow still grasping the symbolism they forgot the greater reality of which it reflects.  All of life bears witness to this process.  Do not the seasons teach this?  The earth dies in the winter, and becomes barren and cold, then in spring it is renewed to life again.  The old forest burns, but from the ashes the new forest rises up.  Even the stars teach this.  The old star dies in the fire of a supernova, and from its nebulous ashes, a new star is born, with planets and moons, on which one tiny world life is created.  I am but a dim reflection of the great miracle that is to come.  If the bible teaches anything about God it is that His mercy and patience far exceed His wrath, and that His ultimate goal is to renew and make the earth and the whole universe even better than it is now, and in fact, to make it perfect, not to obliterate it and drive it into some kind of oblivion.

As for myself, I do not see my view of the world's events as overly negative.  I pray and hope for mankind.  I look for the good in all humans, and when I see it I rejoice.  It is when people choose to hurt each other and do cruel and wicked things that I am grieved.  If man stopped doing evil I'd have no problem with mankind, and if man would start doing good as a matter of course then mankind would have an instant and eternal friend in me.  I don't fail to notice when people do good.  I look at the outpouring of aid toward Burma and China for what has happened, and despite the junta's interference, some of it is getting through.  The Buddhist monks are risking their lives to help the people their government doesn't give a damn about, and there are people with next to nothing giving what little they have to help those who have nothing at all.  No, I see great opportunities for people to choose to do good and help those in need.  Even if it's only a penny or a prayer, there is some good left in this world and every bit, no matter how small, helps.  You could look at my warnings as being negative if you wish, but if one heeds the signs and chooses to be prepared then how much more good can they accomplish that way?  Another rather simple bit of logic.  If one prepares himself to avoid danger, then the resources that would be needed to help that person could be freed to help someone who could not avoid it.  Triage is an ugly business and simply staying out of harm's way by keeping one's eyes open can mean the difference between life and death for many others should a disaster strike.  Imagine if the junta had warned their populace to prepare for the storm how things could have been different.  Would I be no less guilty if I knew what was coming and kept silent as well?  But how much of a blessing if I warn and no disaster falls?  I can rejoice at the good fortune of all instead of lamenting my own inaction.  I don't see that as being negative, I see it as the only logical and pragmatic course of action considering my understanding of the world today.

The plain truth is I may hate mankind for the evil that men do, but I am not without compassion and I don't want to see any creature suffer, least of all those I know and consider to be friends, and whether they are close friends or not makes no difference to me.  I know nobody believes I am what I say I am, but that's never mattered to me so much.  We are different in so many ways, but we are alike in so many more, and those differences mean squat to me.  Why should they?  I'm no better than anyone else here in God's eyes, and whether you have fur, scales, or feathers, you're God's creatures the same as I am, and I am every bit as flawed as humanity.  Perhaps that's part of my learning since I have a problem with pride and arrogance, who can say, but I do care about all of you and why else would I be here?  It is out of love and concern that I warn, not because I have no hope.  If I had no hope, I would have flown off in despair into solitude long ago.  Hope is all that gives me life, and I trust that whatever happens, God will make some good out of it in ways I cannot see, whether people listen to me or not.  It is my hope that everyone I have ever traded words with here, whether in pleasant conversation or heated argument, whether good friend or bitter enemy, will meet me in eternity and I can greet them with a joyful heart.  Until that time, I know suffering is a reality on this world, and I've got to do what I can to help lessen it, and maybe I'm a fool and the sky is not falling, but I'd be a bigger fool to not try to help my friends.  I can live with being one kind of fool, but not the other.
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« Reply #7 on: 2008-05-15, 19:58 »

Well that's rather one of the better explains i've heard about this subject so far Slipgate - Smile
While i may not totally agree with you i do believe there is a God but i dont totally agree with how the bible says.
Thought either way i am worried about our little planet and what's happening to it, natural catastrophes and other stuff which i believe is part of many factors and i believe mankind is abit responsible for it, aka the greenhouse effect.
What scares me is how blind some ppls are and that refuses to see when we are doing something wrong.

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« Reply #8 on: 2008-05-17, 20:52 »

I got worried too. The Chait?n Volcano is still erupting, and another started eruping as well.
Aside from all the lava thing, the ashes vomited by the volcano are dangerous to respiratory sistem and are explosive.

Seriously.

Does nature REALLY wants us THAT dead?
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« Reply #9 on: 2008-05-18, 01:19 »

Death is the inevitable result of living.  It could also be said that building near a volcano is unwise, but then building near rivers can flood you, building near a coast can give you a hurricane, building in flat land can give you tornadoes, building on mountains can give you earthquakes or landslides...  There's no place that's ever truly safe from one kind of natural force or another.  It's the fact that everything is happening at the same time that has caught my interest.  In addition to the volcanoes you speak of, Hawaii is having problems with toxic gases from one of their volcanoes, and Mt. Etna erupted again just after Chait?n.

It could be that the Earth and the natural world is becoming restless toward mankind.  A horse behind the starting gate chomps its bit in anticipation of the gate being flung open.  A prisoner becomes anxious the closer he gets toward his release.  If man's lease on the earth is about to expire and God is about to take direct control, I can imagine a heightened level of anticipation causing all sorts of releases of energy.  The bible says that the whole of creation groans in anticipation of the lifting of the curse that it is under since the fall at Eden.  Perhaps a lot of people are simply in the wrong place at the wrong time.  Even a horse that loves its rider may accidentally throw and trample him to death should it become to animated and not mind where it places its hooves.
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« Reply #10 on: 2008-05-26, 10:21 »

Does nature REALLY wants us THAT dead?

Quite frankly, I can't see why it wouldn't. We've been mutilating this planet for quite a while now.. it's about time it starts to fight back.

Just remember that I still think this planet would be better off without humanity, and I will stand by that until I am proven otherwise.. which doesn't seem likely to happen in my lifetime. That said, all I'm giving here is more of my usual 'personal bias'.
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« Reply #11 on: 2008-05-26, 23:51 »

I certainly share your sentiment that life on earth would be better without the human race.  It was better.  Many ask, seeking to scoff at the idea of aliens visiting the earth, that if there's life elsewhere in the universe and it can travel all the way out here why doesn't it come down and announce itself on the White House lawn?  I would be more inclined to ask as to why they would tolerate mankind's continued violence towards his own species, other species on this world, and against the earth itself.  What incentive would someone have for visiting the earth as it is now?  It's certainly not a place I'd put on my list of interstellar tourist destinations.

This is where I have to throw a little bit of philosophy into this.  I see all things as existing for a reason, as opposed to everything being the product of random chance.  If so, then mankind exists to fulfill a purpose, and thus, you are a necessary part of this universe whether I like it or not.  On a more personal level I was taught a very harsh lesson in regards to this fact by powers many here probably don't believe in.  Either way, I have learned to accept that despite the failings of the human race as a whole, there is some degree of good in everyone.  I too have my own evil tendencies.  Can I condemn any but myself first?  If I were appointed as man's judge you'd be extinct long ago.   That task falls to another, one more just and fair than I am.

As for nature fighting back, there is a passage in the bible that relates to this.  Romans 8:19-23:

Quote
For the earnest expectation of the creature waiteth for the manifestation of the sons of God.  For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected [the same] in hope, Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.  For we know that the whole creation groaneth and travaileth in pain together until now.  And not only [they], but ourselves also, which have the firstfruits of the Spirit, even we ourselves groan within ourselves, waiting for the adoption, [to wit], the redemption of our body.

In layman's terms, this world (and indeed many others) was made subject to evil against its will in order to fulfill some purpose.  Within that purpose we see written here that the creature (meaning animals, plants, etc - non-human life forms) will be delivered from this evil and, the closer this time of deliverance comes, the more that creation will groan in yearning for it.  I can only speak for myself, but I know that I seek that day when all things are pure, and glorious, and when evil is done away with, so you can count at least one creature to whom this passage holds true.

So what then of nature rebelling against mankind?  It cannot, at least not now, because nature was made subject to man by God's will.  That does not mean that natural consequence cannot follow poor actions at present.  Consider colony collapse disorder that is affecting bees.  Consider the domino effect this can have, along with the devoting of cropland to single-crop use for the production of ethanol, and what effect this will have on the world's food supplies, especially if compounded by some other man-made catastrophic disruption.  Like building a house in a flood plane, you cannot blame the water for following the law of gravity and washing the house away when it was your decision to build there, nor can a man who leaps into a lion pen complain justly when the lion follows its nature and eats him.  But as for war... do you think the natural world lusts for revenge and conquest as humans do, or that life simply wants to live?  It may cry out for justice, and if justice is to be given, then only an Almighty God can do so for who else could ever be just?

Revenge is living in the past.  I no longer desire it.  Justice and healing are what I desire to see now, more than anything else.  It is my prayer every moment of every day that evil can be swept from this universe and that man's broken nature can be corrected so that all things may live together in peace and without all the strife we've all been suffering with now for so long.  Perhaps it is a vain hope, but I would rather hope in vain than to have no hope at all.
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« Reply #12 on: 2008-05-27, 17:23 »

Nature does what it does because it needs to do so in order to continue to thrive, not out of some twisted concept of vengeance. I remember a man once saying to me, "Don't f*** with nature, 'cos nature will f*** with you twice as bad". Cynical as it may sound, I believe that there is an element of truth in this, but only so far as nature finds a way to endure mankind's detrimental influence (among other things), and if you happen to be in the way of that then it's your own bad luck. Nothing personal.

True, that is no consolation for the thousands of people made homeless in Burma and China, and I know it sounds actually quite apathetic (and I don't mean it that way), but it is the only conclusion I can come to personally.
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« Reply #13 on: 2008-05-27, 19:08 »

It is a law of physics that for every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction, but that's not always true in practice.  Small reactions can set off much larger ones, thus, in practice a small mistake can have disastrous consequences.  Split the atom, and it will split you worse.  I think ReBoOt would agree that it's unwise to yodel in an avalanche zone.  The plain truth is that nature does not care if it hurts you.  God is sympathetic and compassionate.  The laws of physics are not.  The question is... is mankind's behavior in some way influencing this series of events?  Whether through a spiritual mechanism, or say the global warming crowd turns out to be right, science and religion seem to unwittingly be in agreement that man is having a bad effect on the earth and that there will be consequences of one form or another.  Perhaps that is God's sense of humor showing through?  I don't know, but I do know that I have read some pretty ugly statistics regarding earthquakes over the last few decades from the US Geological Survey:

Earthquakes worldwide classified as "significant" by the USGS, by decade:

1970-1979:  44
1980-1989:  47
1990-1999:  57
2000-present:  121

109 of the 121 quakes in this decade are no less than 7.0 on the richter scale, the remaining 13 of them were between 8.0 and 9.9.  Though the USGS has publicly stated that overall earthquake activity is not on the increase, why the conflicting data regarding quakes it considers "significant"?  Here's the stats from their own site.  You can look over the numbers.  While the yearly average in the graphs does not look very different from the 1990's to the 2000's, the reporting of quakes as being "significant" has changed.  Why?  What's more significant about a magnitude 8 quake now than it was 20 years ago?  Why are they doing so much more damage and killing so many more people?  The answer is that it's not just earthquakes, it's the convergence of aggravating factors such as torrential rains and flooding, combined with where the quakes are hitting that are causing damage.  The Sumatra quake would have just been another blip on the stats board if it hadn't sent a tsunami crashing into Indonesia.  China's looking at a death toll in the tens of thousands from its recent quake.

If the loss of three thousand people and seven buildings were enough to go to war over, what is 78,000 people in China or 100,000+ people in Burma cause to do?  When man raises hand against man, it's so easy to cry out for justice, and for man to act with passion in purpose.  Why is it so hard to exert the same energy in compassion for when even more death and suffering?  If one says, well, there's no enemy to fight.  Yes there is.  Hunger, disease, and suffering are the enemy.  Apathy is the greatest enemy.  You can go to war against other men easily enough.  Can you do the same against the worst aspects of your own natures?  Imagine what good you could do if the energy spent on killing one another were instead spent on helping one another.  If God is trying to say anything through all of this, perhaps that is the message, but then, when has the world ever listened to any good message?
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« Reply #14 on: 2008-05-28, 10:26 »

Well unfortunate man doesnt listen or a very few do, most of the ppls realise it when its to late. It amaze me when humankind has reached this advanced state of mind, we are actually quite intelligent, but why are we still fighting over small bits of land? killing other humans? Why dont we just stop it and live in peace?
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« Reply #15 on: 2008-05-28, 23:06 »

ReBoOt, my guess would be that despite humanity seeming pretty advanced as a species, we're usually quite ignorant as individuals.
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« Reply #16 on: 2008-05-28, 23:24 »

There's no shortage of philosophy though, and in this day, all philosophy is accessible.  What system of thought is not available for reading in any library, or available for download across the internet?  You can't say there's a lack of supply.  As for demand, that varies by individual, but as for need... well man certainly needs something more than what he's using right now.  How is it that in the most literate and educated civilization there can be so much ignorance?  It is an absurd contradiction for certain.
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