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Kajet
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And of course TF2 is on the top... I call BS
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Phoenix
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I can't get the video to play. 
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  I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
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fourier
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The screwattack lists are on popularity not necessarily on the merit of the claim. Plus, everyone's list will probably be different if at all definable  I get sick everytime I hear about Halo this Halo that; "it revolutionized..." blah blah blah. It didn't revolution a thing. It brought online multiplayer to the masses on the console, something that had existed for quite some time in the PC world. Other than that, the weapons (which almost every game does differently) aren't anything to be amazed at, the gameplay already existed either out of the box or in mods for years in other games. So it's just more of the same being "discovered" by the larger population and being confused as the source. The only revolution here would be the revolutionary level of exposure... Reminds me of Apple, come to think of it, but it's more Apple itself thinking it invented everything. If you haven't seen their other lists, you may not have gotten the sarcasm. They at least acknowledge that their list is their list and not necessarily your list. In this one, they were sarcastic about it. You gotta remember, their goal isn't necessarily to even give their earnest opinions but to cater to the largest population. /end over-analysis |
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Phoenix
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Ahh, thanks for the linkage.
I must step off my perch and onto the soapbox for a moment. I despise this sort of list because saying this game is top or that game is top is completely subjective. What designates "top" anyway? Popularity? Ease of play? Learning curve? Number of players involved? Immersion? It's always just a single reason chosen by the people doing the list. There's no structured ranking criteria. It's always unscientific. In addition, mixing genres makes it impossible to create such a criteria. Turn-based strategy games vs MMOs vs FPS? That doesn't jive well.
Now for personal opinions. I'm glad Quake 2 made the list, and that Quake was even mentioned, but #7? Quake 2 was probable the most modded FPS game and the most played online game during the days of dialup. The technical genius of Id at getting networked play from Quakeworld to Quake 2 counts for a lot more than that. In addition, Counterstrike and all the stupid "tactical" shooters (I'm looking at you, Call of Doody Modern Failcraft 2) could not exist without the Quake engine since Half-Life was born from the Quake and Quake 2 engines, and Counterstrike was a Half-Life mod. The Quake series should take the number one spot for multiplayer gaming because it did for multiplayer on the internet what Netquake did for multiplayer on LANs. Oh yes, and Halo... I don't recall it being on the list, but I must bash it anyway. I've never played it, but it seems to me that Microsoft just ripped off the Doomguy, ripped off Id's and Unreal Tournament's weapons, threw vehicles in (I think, it does have vehicles doesn't it?) and dumbed down the gameplay for the console masses. If someone doesn't see that Master Chief is a blatant ripoff of the Doomguy, right down to the green armor color, then they have never played a real video game.
And finally, let's deal with that #1 spot. Team Fortress 2 in its current form does NOT deserve the number one spot. What the game started out as was a great concept and very fun. What it has evolved into (or I should say devolved into) is a dress-up game with occasional bouts of gunfire by people that haven't yet realized that Team Fortress 2 is no longer a FPS shooter. Seriously, is there any testosterone left in the gaming community? I look at how Duke Nukem got bashed by just about every reviewer for being a mindless shooter, Rage was ripped on for the PC due to graphic problems which are primarily ATI's fault for writing crappy drivers for pretty much forever... consolitis notwithstanding it's a very good and fun game or at least I thought so... and what makes a number 1 list is a game whose primary function is now to hoard cosmetic items to use as virtual currency for more cosmetic items that fulfill absolutely no function in any other respect? What ever happened to, I don't know, actually shooting things and blowing stuff up? We never got Episode 3 of Half-Life, and no Half-Life 3 so far... and why? Because Valve is making too much freaking money from people buying DIGITAL HATS to be bothered with making actual video games! 
So thank God for Croteam, and Serious Sam 3, for at least having some understanding of what gaming is supposed to be, and thank you so much Gearbox for the Duke Nukem Forever DLC, which was fun as hell even if short.
Rant over, and off the soapbox and back onto my normal perch again, though I'll end on this note. I took the time the other day to play the in-progress beta of Gen for the first time in several months. I've not been in any kind of creative mindset, and progress has been stalled for several months due to lack of creativity and mostly lack of free time on my part. What little leisure time I've had I've taken the time to play Rage and the DNF DLC. Well anyways, back to Gen, after playing against the bots a bit I still find the old action-fest, totally unrealistic game play of "yesteryear" to be just as appealing as it was when I first played the originals. I contrast that to when I played Portal 2 and felt like I had been completely ripped off, since there was almost no thinking involved to solving the puzzles - which is what I liked about the original. I've not touched it since the first play through. I had much more fun playing Duke, which got horrible reviews, than playing Portal 2 which got insanely good reviews. Why? Because I make up my own mind about what I like and what I don't, and I like mindless action games. The reviewers can stuff it! I've played Quake 2, Doom, and Wolfenstein through more times than I can count, and they're still just as fun to play through today. Long live the mindless action shooter, and may God grant me more coding time so I can do Gen some justice again!
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Thomas Mink
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I agree with Pho's bit about TF2. It started out as a pretty fun game, but within the last two years or so.. devolved into nothing more than a virtual world in which one collects virtual hats (most of which are ugly as sin) and a crap-ton of other items that will never get used. Side note here, but I'd probably play the game more if there was an option to disable hats. No.. my not wearing hats doesn't do anything. I can still see the ugly as sin hat everyone else chooses to wear. Now, even if hats weren't in the game and TF2 was still fun, I'd still say this... the original Quake TF mod was better. It was so good that I completely missed the entire Q2 'era' because of it, which leads to me not understanding at all why Q2 is on the list.  Had no problem with Battlefield 2 on the list.. thankfully not anything CoD-related.  I still say CoD hasn't been good since the first game.. and even then, it lost a lot of my respect. I remember Infinity Ward telling people 'good luck' when mod teams were asking for assistance/support. Now, of course, they just outright say modding is unsupported.. which I guess is better than feigning it. |
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« Last Edit: 2011-12-24, 13:13 by Thomas Mink »
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fourier
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Great points here. The Quake series should take the number one spot for multiplayer gaming because it did for multiplayer on the internet what Netquake did for multiplayer on LANs. Yup, I've said that a number of times in discussions with imbeciles who think Halo is the mother of all FPS. If not for id's wolf, doom, and quake series, we might have gotten there at a techincal level at a few years later (carmack's techniques continue to inspire GPU technology), and we would have probably skipped the best years of FPS and gone straight to the mainstream FPS crap out there now. Oh yes, and Halo... I don't recall it being on the list, but I must bash it anyway. I've never played it, but it seems to me that Microsoft just ripped off the Doomguy, ripped off Id's and Unreal Tournament's weapons, threw vehicles in (I think, it does have vehicles doesn't it?) and dumbed down the gameplay for the console masses. True and blunt. There was a video they had recently which made me mention Halo. They basically were talking about the revolutionary weapons and gameplay in Halo which are all just ripped from previous games and mods. And off the top of my head, Tribes 2 had vehicle mods, so they didn't even do that. I never played TF2 (although I have orange box), but I doubt I'd enjoy it more than Quake Fortress or Q3F. I contrast that to when I played Portal 2 and felt like I had been completely ripped off, since there was almost no thinking involved to solving the puzzles - which is what I liked about the original. That's disappointing. I wanted to get it, but I wasn't paying $50 for it. I was going to wait for it to get cheap, but if it's not challenging maybe it's just a waste. Mindless action games with unrealistic gameplay are panned these days since critics go with the flow, at least that's my opinion. Unrealistic is fun. That's the point of gaming. I don't want to pay taxes in games or have to feed myself, or buy clothes, or exercise... I don't want weapons bound by the laws of physics; I want to enjoy the game. I have confession to make. I said I played D3 and RoE, but I changed the pm_* settings to make the guy move more at quake speeds (not even classic doom speeds) because it's irritating how freakin slow he is; he's a turtle -- turtles can't beat monsters (I guess unless they are mutant turtles). Some of you may disapprove, but I wanted to enjoy the game and moving that slow would have killed it for me. (I also can't stand the stamina thing in any game.) I personally don't give a second thought to critics, and I cannot understand why anyone would. You'd be glorifying a single opinion -- there's no way it's going to be accurate, because it can only be subjective. Think Caddy Shack. Almost every critic at the time panned it as garbage, and then changed their opinions later on to match the general consensus that it is a damn funny movie; it might not appeal to some people, but nothing does. |
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J3E125
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Damn Phoenix, you out a good show. Also, I knew it made the top 10! I was referring to Quake 2 |
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Phoenix
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I said I played D3 and RoE, but I changed the pm_* settings to make the guy move more at quake speeds (not even classic doom speeds) because it's irritating how freakin slow he is; he's a turtle -- turtles can't beat monsters (I guess unless they are mutant turtles). Some of you may disapprove, but I wanted to enjoy the game and moving that slow would have killed it for me. I certainly don't disapprove. I modded the weapons a bit myself. I hated the out-of-the-box shotgun. It patterns so wide it's useless beyond literally shoving the gun up an imp's nose. I tightened the spread and reduced the damage so that it's more comparable with the Doom 1 shotgun. One shot close in to an imp's face will still drop it, and at medium range it feels more like a shotgun should. With RoE, it makes a nice contrast between the regular shotgun and the SSG. I also tweaked the plasma projectile speed to match that of the original Doom plasma. The gun feels much tighter and not as sluggish. Also just a personal preference of mine, but I changed all the bullet-based weapons to fire from the gun's muzzle instead of crosshair. At long range it doesn't make a lot of difference, but up close I find I tend to try to line the gun up with someone instead of the crosshair, and outside of the original Doom, which had no crosshair, I'm used to an offset muzzle thanks to Quake 2. The "shoot from your eyes" crosshair behavior from Quake 3 and onward throws me off at close range for some reason with right-side offset gun models. The two main changes - shotgun and plasma - make the game feel better to me so I've never played it any other way since.
I picked up Portal 2 for $29 on sale. What I did not like about it was the way that puzzles are solved. In Portal 1, a problem was set up with one fairly straightforward solution, but there were other ways to solve many of the puzzles, as had to be done to get the achievements. Other than that, it was left up to you to figure it out. In Portal 2 it's less a matter of figuring out the solution on your own as figuring out where the devs want you to place the portals so that you can even use them. I found myself in many situations looking around, finding the one bare spot on the wall way across the map, and thinking, "I guess that's where I'm going because it's the only spot I can shoot from here." It involved a lot less logic and more reliance on visual cues, and audible cues when you did something "right". From my perspective the game felt like the puzzles were simplified and the game more scripted to please those with less puzzle solving ability and for console players. That's just my opinion, but to me they took away what I liked about Portal - the sterile atmosphere, the feeling of being utterly alone and at the mercy of an insane computer (for a good portion of the game), the need to use logic and learn what to do completely on your own and without any help. I felt like I was being herded. I'm used to puzzles being a challenge. In an action game I don't care if the puzzles are overly simple, but in a game that is supposed to be nothing but a puzzler... I guess I was expecting more of a challenge. For $20 it may be worth a look, not sure how you like your puzzle games, but I would not pay $50 for it. |
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Makou
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Counterstrike and all the stupid "tactical" shooters (I'm looking at you, Call of Doody Modern Failcraft 2) could not exist without the Quake engine since Half-Life was born from the Quake and Quake 2 engines, and Counterstrike was a Half-Life mod.
I'll do you one even better: The Call of Duty series still uses id Tech 3. I get a lot of shit from my friends for, in their words, "riding id's cock." They don't seem to understand that without id Software, it's likely none of the shooters they enjoy today would exist, and even if they did, it's hard to believe that their online play would be of any kind of quality. |
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If you see a "Rona Altana" out there on the internet somewhere, that's probably me
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Phoenix
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Riding Id's cock? Which one?  
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J3E125
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Lol. I believe they updated the cod engine, it still blows though.  |
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J3E125
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Hughf... never bothered to look in detail. Master Chief<Doomguy   |
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« Last Edit: 2011-12-27, 20:05 by J3E125 »
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Thomas Mink
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Jim Raynor? If I recall, he wasn't a space marine.
I was expecting the StarCraft Terran marines.. ugh. Oh well.
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fourier
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I was expecting the same thing when I watched that. When I hear space marines, I think of the terran marines fighting zerg hordes, not Jim Raynor.
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J3E125
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Hmm from what I recall... Jim Raynor was a former space marine, although at the slightest, I prefer the doom guy.
(I believe I also saw bitterman.)
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Kajet
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Last night I loaded up TF2 for the stupid steam christmas coal crap and I have to admit that I ended up playing for quite a while past getting the achievement.
Still the inventory and hat bullcrap is pretty lame.
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J3E125
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Coal? For ammo? Or just an antique? Steam has seriously lost their minds. |
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