2017-10-22, 14:46 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Quake Champions  (Read 3102 times)
0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.
Gnam
 
Makron
********
Posts: 345

« on: 2016-06-13, 17:31 »

http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/06/13/e3-2016-bethesda-reveals-quake-champions

Quote
Studio Director of iD Software, Tim Willits, came on stage at the opening of the conference and said, "Yes, Quake is back." The CG trailer showcased a variety of warriors battling in an old-school arena combat zone.

Willits added, "“A competitive arena-style first-person shooter for the PC designed for players of all skill levels. Whether you are new to Quake or have been fragging for the last 20 years, Quake Champions will give you the challenge and rush you’d expect from iD Software multiplayer games."

“The game features a diverse cast of warriors each with different attributes and unique abilities, allowing you to fight the way you want," Willits went on. "iD has a long tradition of supporting competitive tournaments. The game is designed for world-class eSports play at every level.”

It's fun to see Wrack and Visor fully rendered in the trailer, but the rest is a big question mark. Many suggest, based on the "warrios with unique attributes" and "fun for every skill level" bits, that Bethesda is trying to capitalize on the current trend of hero-based shooters like Overwatch. We certainly know from Doom 4 that Bethesda will not greenlight an Id title without some sort of big marketing gimmick to make it a crowd-pleaser.

If you follow through all the stupid pages in that article, it's speculated that Wrack's purple ball is basically a translocator mechanic complete with telefrag capability. Meanwhile, Visor allegedly has a wallhack similar to Widowmaker from Overwatch (oh god...)

It's really too early to judge. I don't mind the idea of hero abilities, and it could work for Quake, especially if you are still picking up weapons off the map. Hopefully Bethesda has gotten the message by now from Doom 4's lackluster reception that no one cares to see loadouts in Id games. This could also wind up being a lot like Unreal Championship 2, which almost worked for Unreal (though it still had serious flaws).

But yeah...to be safe, I am just going to assume it's going to be a more Quake-like version of Law Breakers, and then it can't really disapoint me.
Logged
Phoenix
Bird of Fire
 

Team Member
Elite (7.5k+)
*********
Posts: 8339

WWW
« Reply #1 on: 2016-06-13, 18:30 »

I just saw the trailer... and I'm rather a bit upset.  I was looking forward to a Quake 1 reboot.  I was not expecting a Quake 3 Arena reboot.  Now I have to go make a preventative news post because I know what's going to happen.  Sipgate - Evil
Logged


I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
Gnam
 
Makron
********
Posts: 345

« Reply #2 on: 2016-06-13, 18:57 »

Yeah, I agree that a Q1 reboot would have been interesting. At least we got an HD Wrack, even if he is so overmuscled he looks like a rejected design for GOW.
Logged
Thomas Mink
 

Beta Tester
Icon of Sin
***********
Posts: 851

WWW
« Reply #3 on: 2016-06-13, 20:50 »

They gave it the name Quake (pretty much), and even went so far as to use a font that is very reminiscent of the original game... then essentially decided to make it Q3-2.

All I can say is 'meh'.. and get further insulted as yet another game uses the name 'Quake' and has little to nothing at all to do with the original game.
Logged

Skins made for SMBC, animated are in-game


"Everybody's got a price" - 'The Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase
scalliano
 

Elite
*
Posts: 1091

Yup, that's me

« Reply #4 on: 2016-06-13, 21:10 »

Yeah, but "Arena Champions" doesn't have quite the same ring to it.

I too was hoping for a return to the series' roots, but if it actually retains what made Q3 so ace in the first place (eg no loadouts for a kickoff), I can live with the character attributes and such.

Good to see Wrack and Visor and I'm assuming the hot babe with the blue hair is Mynx. Like Gnam says, if they learn from DOOM's MP missteps (no FFA?? Seriously??) and go flat out arena shooter, it could be awesome. After DOOM's SP campaign, I have to say I'm more optimistic than I've been about an id game since Quake 4 left me with a salty taste in my mouth*.

*For the record, I thoroughly enjoyed Q4, it just wasn't really a Quake game.
Logged

PSN ID: scalliano

The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
Angst
Rabid Doomer
 

Team Member
Icon of Sin
************
Posts: 966

WWW
« Reply #5 on: 2016-06-13, 23:04 »

I just saw the trailer... and I'm rather a bit upset.  I was looking forward to a Quake 1 reboot.  I was not expecting a Quake 3 Arena reboot.  Now I have to go make a preventative news post because I know what's going to happen.  Sipgate - Evil
What? No GenQuake Champions? Slipgate - Wink

Quote from: scalliano
After DOOM's SP campaign, I have to say I'm more optimistic than I've been about an id game since Quake 4 left me with a salty taste in my mouth*.

*For the record, I thoroughly enjoyed Q4, it just wasn't really a Quake game.
For what it's worth, Doom's MP was outsourced and Q4 was Raven trying their hand at id's canon instead of making a new heretic/hexen title...
« Last Edit: 2016-06-13, 23:06 by Angst » Logged

"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
leilei
 

Spectre
**
Posts: 39

OA lead

WWW
« Reply #6 on: 2016-06-13, 23:10 »

I'm open to champions.  Who knows, it might play like Generations Slipgate - Smile

So much "rip quake" around the internet, when the game really died in 2000 when Counter-Strike came out and when they figured out "oh its open source let's make our pro qw cheats legal new way The way to quake is us now huhuhu......why are there no players!!!! *posts warez repack as a free game* "

also it's not CPMA of course, and it's still just a reveal/announcement and game design is still subject to change.  After all, Q3A once had (weight) classes, and every time I bring that up, quake fans think i'm pulling that out of my ass, or "correct" me towards Q3TA's runes


FTR I wasn't anticipating a "Quake sequel" or anything like that (not even from the job "leak")because that would be a bit of a brand clash with their own The Evil Within and Doom properties (especially when Quake was originally an ambitious rpg that turned into a slapdash doom).  Every Quake in the series is a radical departure from the last anyway, and ironically the one that's a real sequel is the black sheep of the series.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-13, 23:18 by leilei » Logged

scalliano
 

Elite
*
Posts: 1091

Yup, that's me

« Reply #7 on: 2016-06-14, 01:14 »

The so-called Quake "elite" crying foul at every turn right now is embarrassing. It's fine to be apprehensive, but the "omg quake is dead" rhetoric is a bit extreme. Has it not occurred to these people that the game might actually be decent? Personally, I could live with Overwatch mit strafe-jumping/rocket-jumping/plasma-riding/trick-shots/etc. As long as the game is still Quake at its core, what's the issue? Q3R on the PS2 had character attributes, basic as they were, but they worked (possible exception being Anarki who was just OP as feck in MP). But when did the Internet ever embrace calm?
Logged

PSN ID: scalliano

The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
Thomas Mink
 

Beta Tester
Icon of Sin
***********
Posts: 851

WWW
« Reply #8 on: 2016-06-14, 14:19 »

Hey.. I'm still not sure if I even accept Q2 as a 'Quake' title, let alone Q3. So my earlier comment is nothing new for me.

Quake has been dead since '96 from my standpoint.. even though I didn't stop playing (QWTF) until around '99 or 2000.. whenever it was that my clan decided to try a jump into Q3F.
Logged

Skins made for SMBC, animated are in-game


"Everybody's got a price" - 'The Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase
Kain-Xavier
 

Beta Tester
Icon of Sin
***********
Posts: 898

« Reply #9 on: 2016-06-14, 16:28 »

I'm happy there is a new Quake game coming out but I'd be lying if I said I wasn't disappointed that it was not a sequel to the original game.  id tech 6 added back real-time dynamic lighting and I feel like you need that to do a Quake sequel proper justice.  It's also the 20th anniversary of the original game so I feel like it's weird to not do something with it.

My other apprehension is that Quake: Champions will not add enough new mechanics to distinguish itself from Quake III Arena.  I realize that's a stupid fear to base off of a trailer which does not feature any gameplay footage but it's grounded in the fact that Quake 4 already tried to reinvent the wheel with its multiplayer and failed.  (On a side note, I loved Quake 4's single-player.  I shouted out in glee when Kane was dropped onto Stroggos.)  We also have Quake Arena Arcade and Quake Live.  I don't feel like there's any advantage to remaking Quake 3 at this point.

That said, while I have not played Overwatch, people seem to really love it, and if Quake: Champions is anything like that game or the titles id has put out in the past, I'm sure people will love it as well.  Also, I will be incredibly stoked if the game turns out to be id's version of Unreal Championship 2.  That is my favorite multiplayer shooter / brawler and it is a such a shame that it was never released on other platforms.  (On a another side note, I really need to release the UT3 mod I made which features shock ball traps and sentient goo.)

Also,  Slipgate - Off Topic (again) but one of the E3 announcements for DOOM 4 was that id will be adding a free-for-all mode to the multiplayer along with several others.
« Last Edit: 2016-06-14, 16:32 by Kain-Xavier » Logged

scalliano
 

Elite
*
Posts: 1091

Yup, that's me

« Reply #10 on: 2016-06-14, 20:37 »

Thing is, Q3 always struck me as the FPS equivalent of something like Marvel vs Capcom, or more specifically the mor recent SF games, ie a large roster of characters including a decent contingent of guest fighters from other franchises all brought together to duke it out in an ultimate showdown. Champions seems to be an extension of that, giving each character their own unique way of fighting, just like the beat-em-ups we've had for almost 30 years now. That's what Overwatch, Battleborn and QC are, Street Fighter II with guns!
Logged

PSN ID: scalliano

The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
Phoenix
Bird of Fire
 

Team Member
Elite (7.5k+)
*********
Posts: 8339

WWW
« Reply #11 on: 2016-06-14, 21:17 »

I'm also puzzled by all the "Quake is dead" comments people have.  There's 454 Quakeworld servers that Qtracker's picking up right now, along with 245 Quake 2 servers, and 472 Quake 3 Arena servers up.  I'd hardly qualify that as "dead".  Sure, there's not a million people online playing Quake simultaneously like in the old days, but back then that's all there was so everyone played Quakeworld and Quake 2.

Now that I'm over my initial grumpiness about not getting a Quake 1 sequel, and getting the disclaimer news post out of the way, I'll wait and see what Quake Champions brings to the table.  Who knows.  If it's good, maybe it'll bring enough old Quake players back to the table to bug Id and Bethesda to do a proper Q1 followup game?  Well, I can hope anyway.
Logged


I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
Gnam
 
Makron
********
Posts: 345

« Reply #12 on: 2016-06-15, 17:25 »

That said, while I have not played Overwatch, people seem to really love it, and if Quake: Champions is anything like that game or the titles id has put out in the past, I'm sure people will love it as well.

I can comment on that a bit since my girlfriend was anticipating Overwatch and got me to play with her starting with the open beta in May...

Overwatch does have some similarities to Quake since it's heavily based on Team Fortress. However, being by Blizzard, it's also aggressively casual-friendly to the point that I don't think many Gen Arena players would like it. In general, easy stuff like hitscan spray weapons and character ability gimmicks take precedence in damage over skill-based projectiles like rockets and grenades.

Hitscan does have a damage fall-off over distance property, but it's more appropriate to think of it as a "close range damage buff" property, because despite dealing a proper 50-70 DPS at long range, they fly off the handle to 170 or more at close range. So basically across average combat distances, projectiles don't have the raw power to make up for their slow travel time, and you have to hug character gimmicks like jet packs and energy barriers VERY HARD to stand any chance.

The game also has really lackluster movement. If you think UT is too slow compared to Quake, then hold on to your seats, because Overwatch is a whole new kind of slow. There are a few characters with a jetpack, teleport, wallrun, or mine jump, but they're really not enough to make the game feel-paced or like movement is heavily skill-based. Even just the basic game of zigzagging, bobbing, and weaving in place to avoid enemy fire is very weak compared to just about ANY other arena shooter.

I say all this because it's the worst case scenario for Quake Champions' promise of "fun for all levels of players". It's entirely too early to judge QC's gameplay, but if Bethesda goes full-on casual with it, Overwatch is what it could be like.

In terms of popularity, there is some potential there. Overwatch's fanbase is largely non-FPS players who finally have a shooter that caters to their lack of twitch aiming skills. However, there are also some arena shooter fans like me playing it simply because it's a new arena shooter with a large playerbase fit to blow off steam casually after work.

In fact, I happened to be on the official Overwatch forums when Quake Champions was announced. Normally the OW forums are full of threads demanding nerfs to the "overpowered" flavor of the week character, but the Quake Champions thread stayed near the top for a good portion of the day as Quake fans crawled out of the woodwork to comment about how they were excited to play a game with more skill-based hardcore mechanics.

However, if Bethesda really wants to edge in on Overwatch's turf with Quake Champions, they have a huge hurdle to cross with marketting and character design. Overwatch has gained a huge audience specifically because it eschews the testosterone-fueled violent aesthetic which has become a cliche in FPS. The trailer Betheda released earlier this week is the exact opposite of the vibe that has won Overwatch so many fans.

That's not to say that Quake has to entirely reinvent itself with no violence at all, but parading meathead overmuscled GOW-esque character designs is not going to win Quake Champions any fans. Generic blue-haired, leather-clad cyberpunk heroines will not work either. Bethesda is really going to have to reach hard to come up with character designs that are fearsome but also sophisticated in order to win over a modern audience. Generic beefcake space marines are not at all in fashion anymore.

Doom 4 may have been successful despite this, but think back to all the bad PR over the official cover, which was a shot of JUST the marine without even any of the demons that made the franchise. THAT is what Quake Champsions has to face if they don't step up their marketing.
Logged
Gnam
 
Makron
********
Posts: 345

« Reply #13 on: 2016-06-28, 17:41 »

Some interviews on Quake Champions with Tim Willits:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RvDyLCadGGY

http://metro.co.uk/2016/06/21/quake-cham...-quake-which-is-kind-of-awesome-5958340/

He is very adamant that QC is not a moba, doesn't remove strafe-jumping, nor does it remove weapon pickups. Overall it's pretty reassuring. In the Metro.co.uk interview he even addresses the idea of making a "lovecraftian" single-player.
Logged
Angst
Rabid Doomer
 

Team Member
Icon of Sin
************
Posts: 966

WWW
« Reply #14 on: 2016-06-28, 21:02 »

Chiming in on the Overwatch bit, I would definitely agree that it lacks the frenetic pace of a proper deathmatch. As for skill.. It fits Blizzard's trademark "Easy to play, difficult to master" mold fairly well. I used to hate playing Junkrat and Tracer early on, but now that I have a proper feel for the mechanics, the only character I hate is Hanzo because his friggin arrows have a hitbox the size of a Mack truck.. Also the "shooter-based-hit-detection" can be frustrating in the extreme. Can't tell you how many times I've taken damage from behind a wall because some high ping player lobbed an arrow in my general direction some 3-400 msecs ago. Slowing down the game helps even out the netcode issues, and forces players into teamwork situations. I enjoy the latter when it works, and dislike it when it doesn't.

They're talking about taking this direction with Quake, and while I don't mind gimmicks when balanced, I'm a bit concerned about the netcode. I'm cautiously optimistic after Doom's single player. But the multiplayer makes me concerned that Quake is going to feel more like Gears of War.. I suppose we'll see..
Logged

"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
Phoenix
Bird of Fire
 

Team Member
Elite (7.5k+)
*********
Posts: 8339

WWW
« Reply #15 on: 2016-06-30, 19:50 »

After watching and reading the interviews, I don't think the netcode is going to be a problem.  If they're catering to hardcore pro Quake 3/Quake Live players and the ones that have been testing it actually like it, then that's one of the most picky audiences around to try to appeal to.  I'm a bit relieved by the interviews as it establishes a few things:

1)  Quake Champions will be PC Only.

YES!  This has been every PC gamer's gripe since it began with other titles:  Consolitis.  Id remembered its roots and is finally doing something sane.

2)  This will be classic FPS-style play with added character abilities.

Since the abilities of each "champion" come with the champion and are not part of a progression system, then anyone can play in any way they want.  There's no "that's unfair" because any player can use any character and have that ability set.  If the weapons themselves are shared 100% across the various champions, then that will work.

3)  It's aimed primarily at the Pro/eSports crowd.

This means it's not going to play anything like Gen, since we're purely aimed at nostalgia and not out to cater specifically to Pros.  It will be its own game, and may end up being awesome and something I'd want to play without invalidating what we're doing with Gen.  It also means there will be advanced controls for game tweaking as if those are not there the Pro crowd would be the ones complaining the loudest.

I'm good with all this so far.  If this takes off and is successful it may trigger a renewed interest in Arena play, which can only be good for old Quake mods like ours, and with enough interest in Quake we might finally get that Q1 sequel that people have been begging for.
  Slipgate - Love

Logged


I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
scalliano
 

Elite
*
Posts: 1091

Yup, that's me

« Reply #16 on: 2016-07-01, 00:12 »

TBH I can't see progression unlocks being completely absent, but the game could get away with them if they were cosmetic only. In fact, I'd be all over that. I love custom models/skins for Q3/QL, but it sucks when I know that other people on the server can't see them. Such a system would negate that (and let's be honest, mod support ain't on the cards), allowing at least a degree of player individuality, something we've come to expect in online multiplayer in recent years.

All things considered, show me some gameplay media and I can get properly hyped.
Logged

PSN ID: scalliano

The Arena knows no gender, colour or creed, only skill.
Phoenix
Bird of Fire
 

Team Member
Elite (7.5k+)
*********
Posts: 8339

WWW
« Reply #17 on: 2016-07-01, 01:07 »

One thing with the cosmetic unlocks:  As long as it does not start looking like how TF2 looks now.  I can get behind good stuff, as that's what custom player skins and models has always been about, but if it starts to stray into the absurd then I want some way to turn the ones I hate off.
Logged


I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
Thomas Mink
 

Beta Tester
Icon of Sin
***********
Posts: 851

WWW
« Reply #18 on: 2016-07-01, 14:04 »

One thing with the cosmetic unlocks:  As long as it does not start looking like how TF2 looks now.  I can get behind good stuff, as that's what custom player skins and models has always been about, but if it starts to stray into the absurd then I want some way to turn the ones I hate off.
So much this.
But I'll be honest.. if it's cosmetic, I feel that should be an option anyway.

Keeping with TF2: as soon as hats were first released, I was part of a very small group of people asking for an option to turn them off. We got called 'jealous' and 'hatless bums', despite the fact I had earned a few.. just chose to outright delete them instead of trade or wear them.
A popular response was also 'don't use them then'.. but what good is that if you can see it on everyone else?
I stopped playing entirely a little after that because it went from tolerably annoying to just plain bad as more updates came out.
Logged

Skins made for SMBC, animated are in-game


"Everybody's got a price" - 'The Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase
Angst
Rabid Doomer
 

Team Member
Icon of Sin
************
Posts: 966

WWW
« Reply #19 on: 2016-07-01, 19:01 »

I'm more a fan of Blizzard's cosmetics. Skins and/or visual retools of a character so long as it doesn't drastically affect gameplay.
Logged

"Who says a chainsaw isn't a ranged weapon?"
Pages: [1] 2 3
  Print  
 
Jump to: