2024-03-28, 12:04 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
 
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
Author Topic: Mandatory Millitiary Service? (What's Congress thinking!?)  (Read 16586 times)
0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.
dev/null
 
Banned
Vadrigar
**********
Posts: 607

« Reply #20 on: 2003-12-06, 01:48 »

Quote from: ~SpAwN~
And besides... I have long hair, and I LIKE my hair. I will NOT get it buzzed off for something as stupid as fighting in a war.
Ah, a point that rings true for me as well. It would take quite a lot before I considered cutting my hair. Of course, I guess the term long is all relative to your perception on the topic, as mine is well past my shoulders *shrugs*

However, I've always resented that "I support the troops" junk. Really, I think bringing them home, away from some waste land were they have no true purpose, would be a much better way to show your support and gratitude, as opposed to keeping them in said location and merely hoping they survive.
Logged
dna
 
Shub-Niggurath
**********
Posts: 673

WWW
« Reply #21 on: 2003-12-06, 02:57 »

Quote from: dev/null
However, I've always resented that "I support the troops" junk. Really, I think bringing them home, away from some waste land were they have no true purpose, would be a much better way to show your support and gratitude, as opposed to keeping them in said location and merely hoping they survive.
I'll go one step further than supporing the troops and say that  I support what they are doing.  Yes, undoubtably some evil company is going to profit from the whole thing and that probably contributed to the decision to do it, but in the mean time, a whole bunch of people have been liberated from a maniacle power that did not have their best intrests at heart.  If you look, you will see that most of the present troubles and resentment leveled against the Us troops currently there are not really springing from inside the country but imported to Iraq by people who, once again, do not have the best intrests of the Iraqi people at heart.  They are still just innocent bystanders caught up in a pissing match between us and people who don't like us.  How much easier do you think the mission would be if we didn't have to worry about sabotage and ambush?  How much faster do you think the US Army would leave if they didn't have to defend and kill?  Do you really think the majority of Iraq wants to kill us in our beds?
I do not think that the 10 year (or whatever) embargo against Iraq was cool as it only hurt the people that we should have been helping.  This should have been done long ago the first time.
You say that there is no purpose there, and you've defended that in the past with your reasons, but I think liberation is one of the most important thing we can give to countries like this - the ability to choose thier own future.   Would they be better off if we had never come?  Short term, probably - there wouldn't have been any interuption in the basic services that they see now, but long term, I don't see how anybody could doubt it.
As for induction, I can see it both ways, but that's probably since I wouldn't mind going.
Logged
dev/null
 
Banned
Vadrigar
**********
Posts: 607

« Reply #22 on: 2003-12-06, 03:09 »

Quote
If you look, you will see that most of the present troubles and resentment leveled against the Us troops currently there are not really springing from inside the country but imported to Iraq by people who, once again, do not have the best intrests of the Iraqi people at heart.

That sounds like a generally decent statement, however, I do not think the US hold any general interest for the well being of the Iraqi people either.

Quote
You say that there is no purpose there, and you've defended that in the past with your reasons, but I think liberation is one of the most important thing we can give to countries like this - the ability to choose thier own future.

I don't know if I'd call what we've given (or are going to give) them "liberation", nor will they be able to choose their own future.
Logged
dna
 
Shub-Niggurath
**********
Posts: 673

WWW
« Reply #23 on: 2003-12-06, 04:13 »

Quote from: dev/null
I don't know if I'd call what we've given (or are going to give) them "liberation", nor will they be able to choose their own future.
At the very least, we've liberated them from being tortured and thrown into vats filled with sewage waste.
I don't think lots of people realize just what was going on over there.  As a human being, I would have to ask how this country, and every other country, could not do it.
Maybe the Army leadership doesn't have the purest of intentions, but I think most Army personel standing on the sand over there does.  
In the end I'm sure that there will be some kind of controlling intrest from the US there but the people will have a much louder voice than they ever dreamed of.  It's hard to extoll the virtues of the present Govt, but I really don't think that the US would be able to just hold on to Iraq with an Iron fist without taking it on the chin from a world view stance.  I'd like to think that it would turn out similar to Germany and Japan post WW2.  Occupation with increasing independence.
Logged
Thomas Mink
 

Beta Tester
Icon of Sin
***********
Posts: 920

HeLLSpAwN

« Reply #24 on: 2003-12-06, 04:23 »

:offtopic

From dev/null: "Of course, I guess the term long is all relative to your perception on the topic, as mine is well past my shoulders *shrugs*"

To me, 'long' means past the shoulders. Otherwise it's either 'short' or 'shoulder length'... Slipgate - Smile Granted there is an in between there I guess.. but I dunno what I'd call it.

:offtopic

Logged

"Everybody's got a price" - 'The Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase
dev/null
 
Banned
Vadrigar
**********
Posts: 607

« Reply #25 on: 2003-12-06, 05:29 »

Quote from: dna
Maybe the Army leadership doesn't have the purest of intentions, but I think most Army personel standing on the sand over there does.
I can agree there. I do believe that a large majority of serving persons do have good intentions and generally want to help. However, that doesn't really matter, as they're not the ones in charge. No matter what happens to Iraq due to American influence, I can't help but feel that it'll fail again. Install another puppet government and you'll eventually have another hostile country somewhere down the road. Had some Imperialist assholes not divided up the eastern empire after World War I in the first place, we wouldn't have these problems. But, that's the past. I do seriously doubt that the appropriate amount of care will be put forth to ensure the survival (or at least establishment) of a truly liberated country.

Whatever the case may be, I have yet to see any weapons of mass destruction Slipgate - Tongue
Logged
Lilazzkicker
 

Beta Tester
Quad God
**********
Posts: 571

WWW
« Reply #26 on: 2003-12-06, 07:09 »

Bah, at the weapons of mass destruction comment, every element was there for making them, they kept out the inspection crews, to toy with us? hahaha, it may have been a bad idea for using that as a reason to commence with this war, but i dont think it needed much justification in the first place. should have been finished in bush seniors time.
Logged
Thomas Mink
 

Beta Tester
Icon of Sin
***********
Posts: 920

HeLLSpAwN

« Reply #27 on: 2003-12-21, 16:01 »

Maybe it should have been finished in Bush Sr.'s time... but it wasn't. And initiating wars off of assumptions isn't a good practice in my eyes. It would have been different if they actually found WMD's, if for only because they said Iraq had them... then so be it.

I'm also not a supporter of forcing our influence onto other nations... sure, the people might not have had the best times... but why should we care? It's not our problem. I'm one for keeping my nose out of other people's business, unless it directly involves me. If anything, in my eyes, all we did was piss off more Arabs.
Logged

"Everybody's got a price" - 'The Million Dollar Man' Ted DiBiase
Tekhead
 
Elite
*
Posts: 1110

« Reply #28 on: 2003-12-21, 18:55 »

I don't care if I join the military or not - it could be fun. However, I'd rather not be serving my country for an idiot like Bush. I'm not sure he's worth defending, moreso than the country.
« Last Edit: 2003-12-21, 18:56 by Tekhead » Logged
Devlar
 
Makron
********
Posts: 398

WWW
« Reply #29 on: 2003-12-22, 00:21 »

If the Chinese suddenly decide to invade North America, the draft will be considered just. If a politician wants to send the youth of the nation across the sea in order to fight for his economic gain against the will of the soldiers, then quite frankly I'd rather shoot the draftsmen and politicians
Logged
Phoenix
Bird of Fire
 

Team Member
Elite (7.5k+)
*********
Posts: 8805

WWW
« Reply #30 on: 2003-12-22, 04:44 »

Devlar and I agree on something yet again!  This is a record.  I despise politicians.

I remember the original idea behind the US armed forces way back yonder was to NOT have a standing army, but rather have a citizen's militia.  That is, common people armed for defense of the common good.  Such an otherwise peaceful group could defend both against invasion from a foreign land, or defend against a government overstepping its bounds.  Sadly this idea died a long time ago, and the federal government is out of control.  The term "militia" has been relegated to the status of a dirty word in the press that means "right-wing gun-toting cooks", and the concept of private ownership of weaponry has shifted to a constant struggle as opposed to an accepted norm that it was two hundred years ago.  The US military is strong, but the idea of the entire nation being able and willing to fight to defend their land was the stronger idea.  I don't see any way to go back to that, however.  I look at the MTV generation and wonder, besides in a game, how many have the understanding and the nerve to pull the trigger if their lives and the lives of others depend on it, and if they even know which side they should be on if they actually do.  There are few left who are willing to own the heavier weapons, learn how to use them, and be prepared to stand if someday there ever is an invasion.  I am proud that I do know a few who still have such spirit.  Some of them are women, and cripples, and the elderly.  They probably would not last long, so I pray such a day never comes, but still it is better to die with honor than to live as a slave in misery and oppression and fear.  I would that every man in this age show such courage.
« Last Edit: 2003-12-22, 04:44 by Phoenix » Logged


I fly into the night, on wings of fire burning bright...
Devlar
 
Makron
********
Posts: 398

WWW
« Reply #31 on: 2003-12-22, 09:28 »

Lets face it the invasion occured (just look where all the goods on your store shelves come from) and the government overstepped its bounds (it slipped Patriot Act 2 through and no one noticed)

I think at this point distrust in politicians has become a politican norm.

You might like this, it is a great article
http://www.guncite.com/journals/reycrit.html
"Cottrol and Diamond quote Assistant Secretary of State for Human Rights John Shattuck to the effect that "n the twentieth century the number of people killed by their own governments under authoritarian regimes is four times the number killed in all this century's wars combined."They thus argue:
We have, in the twentieth century, seen the rise of monstrous states capable of deprivations of liberty far in excess of anything that the English Whigs who authored the Declaration of Rights of 1689--or their American successors in 1791--could have envisioned.... That, in the light of the history of the twentieth century, those we rely on for serious constitutional and political commentary have failed to examine the issues of whether the state should have a monopoly of force and whether an armed population might still play an important role in deterring governmental excesses bespeaks a dangerous intellectual cowardice, a self-imposed limit on political and constitutional discourse that causes us largely to ignore one of the most critical questions of our time."

Logged
Atom235
 
Pain Elemental
****
Posts: 84

« Reply #32 on: 2003-12-24, 20:43 »

While I don't think that mandatory military service is a bad idea in general (ok, I might not want to do it for my country)  , it does puzzle me.


Are they preparing for a full-scale war?
Doom - Huh?
Then again, who wouldn't pull out massive drafting if war occurred.
Strange and visible political move.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2]
  Print  
 
Jump to: