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Author Topic: Is there a statistics page? (Just checking)  (Read 8882 times)
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FluSyndrome
 

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« on: 2004-10-10, 01:14 »

Some servers check for player stats, I was wondering if any of your servers has statisitcs, The only reason I ask is because I like to gauge how I am doing on a particular task, like chainsaw kills :-) or railgun kills, as well as efficiency. I don't really care to be at top or bottom of any list, just my own personal preference for checking how I'm doing and what I could improve on.

CRAP: I posted this on the wrong forum did't I.  I dunno how to move it. :-(
« Last Edit: 2004-10-10, 01:15 by FluSyndrome » Logged
ConfusedUs
 

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« Reply #1 on: 2004-10-10, 02:06 »

No there's not, although I'd like for there to be. Slipgate - Wink

And I'll move this to the Gen page for ya.
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FluSyndrome
 

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« Reply #2 on: 2004-10-10, 03:05 »

Lemme know and I'll ask our stats guy  for help.
This is our stats page :  
http://www.covsplace.net/cgi-bin/stats.cgi

and this is our OLD stats page, which I liked better for simplicity, it has been dumped so you may not see the background right and names that have white letters in it won't show, but you get the idea:

http://12.6.136.33/cgi-bin/stats.cgi

BTW, besides Flusyndrome, I also use Nasalspore, LittleFlulu, ozonefart and others :-) so you may see those names there.
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ConfusedUs
 

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« Reply #3 on: 2004-10-10, 03:07 »

Nobody's server was running that second stats program for a long time.

I'd love to see it up on central.
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Tabun
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« Reply #4 on: 2004-10-10, 05:41 »

Mind, player stats shouldn't be accessible to anyone but server admins or team members. The last thing we want is to turn Gen into a virtual dick-size comparison/contest -- no-one's going to use handicaps or abide the rules if that happens ;]

This is what happens ;] (that is, on a popular Dutch server):

aaargh.io.nl stats
« Last Edit: 2004-10-10, 05:44 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
Phoenix
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« Reply #5 on: 2004-10-10, 06:23 »

I tend to agree with Tabun in regards to long-term web-based stat tracking.  Stats can be good to a point, but not if they're used to rub people's noses in the dirt.  I prefer more constructive uses for stats.  What I don't want is to have to listen to some braggart on the forums claiming to be some l337 sk1ll3d d00d because he beats up on some new players 5 times a week just to throw his stats higher than everyone else.  If someone uses their stats as a means to piss off other players on a regular basis then they might find them getting reset to zero as an attitude adjuster.

There's been some discussion in regards to in-game stats in the past, and we may (or may not) decide to put in weapon accuracy/kill statistics in Gen at some point.  If we do they would only be accessible to the player they belong to during and at the end of play.  There's some potential for usefulness if you want to improve your accuracy or effectiveness with a specific weapon to improve your playing ability.  Outside of that it just turns into a pissing contest, which tends to attract lame behavior like camping, chatkilling (have to drive those stats up!), and all the banes of online gaming.  You even have people who will go so low as to double-connect to a server at an odd hour, callvote a small map, and just frag their other login over and over.  Throw in people who screw around once in a while and play seriously only part of the time and what's the point?  Long term stat tracking doesn't necessarily measure a player's ability since there are so many other variables to consider.  How does the script know those 10 dives into the lava were intentional, or those 10 suicides were from chasing someone with the LSOV kamikaze style?  It can't know that sort of thing.  The worst example I can think of for stat tracking is the experience system in Zdaemon.  Basically whoever plays the most gets the most, so you have players with average skill being rated in the top 10 just because they have more time to kill.

There's also coding considerations since we have a large obituary list, and it's subject to change as our weaponry evolves and changes so you might end up gaining or losing MOD types which affect stat tracking whether done by a website script or done in-game for a scoreboard.  I can guarantee that if we include any statistical tracking in Gen itself it will be one of the absolute LAST things to be implemented for this reason.
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Gnam
 
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« Reply #6 on: 2004-10-10, 06:25 »

Tab, your stats for grenade kills are pathetic. Do you have trouble getting it up?  Slipgate - WTF


...I mean the grenade... Slipgate - Smile~


I don't think stats would encourage lame behavior in a community this small. Everyone's just playing for fun, and most of the players more or less know each other and each player's skill level. If someone were to start  pulling lame shit just to get their stats up, everyone would know it was BS, and no one would be impressed, defeating the purpose of showing the stats off.
« Last Edit: 2004-10-10, 06:33 by Gnam » Logged
FluSyndrome
 

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« Reply #7 on: 2004-10-10, 08:21 »

We have only ONE server running statistics and everyone that plays in that one server knows it. Here is what has happened throughout the years:
Stats were really interesting at the beginning, then after a few months, no one even talked about it anymore, but I still check regularly mainly to check how I am doing and see how I am doing agaist a particular player.
People who take this seriously usually have a couple different names, one to play seriously and others to have fun (basically at the beginning when Stats were interesting, now people dont bother) EXAMPLE Flu to play seriously, Flu-50 to play with 50 handicap, it is actually quite interesting to see what difference a handicap makes :-)
Most people understand that ping differences account for disbalance of the statistics, EX: I am ahead of the statistics of MANY players that are from Europe, if the stats was running in their server in Europe, I KNOW I wouldnt be as lucky
I am also aware many good players play at a specific time where realy good players play, which tend to lower their statistics while I play at ANY time inluding hours were lesser players may play, thus statistics may look better.
After a while, statistics mean only one thing- A really good way to gauge yourself and have fun, I really have NEVER seen anyone pissing people off and bragging in our forums, but I know the potential is there.

I think most of the old timers are used to statistics and know how to use them, I used to play on TEN, which had some of the best statistics I have seen, Rocketman's, old painkeep (quake1), etc. I don't remember ever been a problem.

I just wnated it for xample to see how well I do with specific weapons against different players, it helps me decide what to use on encounters and what to watch out for :-)

Like I said- Just checking :-)

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Phoenix
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« Reply #8 on: 2004-10-10, 09:14 »

The in-game statistics, assuming we get around to doing something along those lines, would be brought up either as part of or similar to the scoreboard.  Best way to gauge your effectiveness would be to screenshot the scoreboard and stats at the end of a level for later comparison.
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Tabun
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« Reply #9 on: 2004-10-10, 13:42 »

No matter how small or pleasant the community, stats always have adverse effects on at the very least a few players' chivalry and honourability. Just like Phoenix states, they hardly depict the true skill of a player, due to newbie-slaughter et cetera. I've found that from all these statistics, efficiency is the best measure for one's skill, as it not only takes the frags in account, but also the ability to stay alive -- even so, this is typically driven up by chatkilling and the other aforementioned 'strategies'.

This all depends on the server and the game, too: Q3A-FFA can be tons of fun when it's tense and tough - like the server for the stats I spammed - Everyone goes head-to-head, nearly everyone chatkills the rare player that stands about, but this hardly happens, because everyone on the server is driven, experienced & skilled. There are rarely newbies to pound on (tis after all only the hardcore players that still actively play vanilla Q3).
Which brings me to Generations Arena: There's no hardcore competition, nearly half of our playerbase is either playing for fun and games, practice etc. or for nostalgia values.
The few times a skilled player hopped on the server and applied 'tactics' to improve their chances of winning (ie. chatkilling, going arena only, picking on the new guys), the fun was pretty much destroyed. In addition, there's no set times when 'the good players' are active. Nearly every game I played was with widely varying player skills.

As annoyed as I was last night about having to face a whole host of Earthers racking up easy frags, it compares in no way to the trained Q3 player popping in for a few games, showing off his Q3 skills with the default weapons, picking on the weaker players, whining, then popping off again. This kind of competitiveness I want to reduce or avoid at all costs. Ask yourself who of the competing players would use a handicap to keep things balanced, when there's the stats to think of? :]

Now the (personal) weapon statistics, I've always been in favour of, since they're just like the accuracy value displayed in the scoreboard -- but useful. They don't do anything but tell you what would be a pest to keep track of manually.
« Last Edit: 2004-10-10, 13:47 by Tabun » Logged

Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
FluSyndrome
 

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« Reply #10 on: 2004-10-10, 14:30 »

Well it's somehing to think about anyways, I've seen talk of a tournament, which can be a lot of fun, and in that setting statistics would be of course very valuable.
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Tabun
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« Reply #11 on: 2004-10-10, 16:17 »

For a tournament? Interesting: yes. Valuable: no. A tournament is based on winning and frags, so keeping track of efficiency or weapon statistics would serve no purpose. Since the players would be playing very competitively anyway, it would do no harm either.
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Tabun ?Morituri Nolumus Mori?
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« Reply #12 on: 2004-10-18, 10:56 »

I agree with Tabun. I remember with the original unreal tournament ug stats used to be a joke, the top 100 at least comprised of guys with aimbots/wallhacks/radars/skin hacks/heck people even used to bind taunt animations so when they fired a weapon it would lag people on 56k modems   Slipgate - Sad

I'm not saying this would happen with generations arena but I think stats on the whole are a bad thing unless they are for a players own feedback e.g. accuracy table by weapon like osp does.
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Tekhead
 
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« Reply #13 on: 2004-10-18, 17:14 »

Statistics are a good way of looking over one's game, but not all statistics are the best ones. Like Tabun said, efficency is the key, and statistics (if they're implemented) ought to show that rather than ones that are less meaningful or related to efficency.

For example, let's say that a player has a 66% hit-to-miss ratio with the railgun. This looks like a good statistic to have, but the depth of its meaning says very little about how well the player is doing in the game. It could mean that the player only shot 3 rails and missed one, or shot 33 rails, missing 11. How does this good ratio contribute to the player's overall performance? Not much, if by comparison they have a kill/death ratio of 7/22.

Mods like OSP do show more significant statistics, like damage given & damage recieved. Other mods display FPH (Frags Per Hour). UT2004 keeps the scoreboard simple & clean by only displaying the score, kills and deaths of players. These are examples of what I think are good statistics since they give a more accurate portrayal of a player's performance in comparison to accuracy ratios, epsecially when one considers how many shots are intended to redirect a player's movement, or are simply guessing (SPAM =p) shots.
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